Fiat Ducato- Bent Wishbones (1 Viewer)

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi All,
I had my French MOT (CT) yesterday. As we are 4.5 tonne it has to be a lorry test. The guy was very good and bent over backwards to help me, even fudged the low reading on one side of the handbrake test when I said I would sort it out straight away.
When he had finished he said that the lower wishbones which he had sprayed with a dob of paint, (he called them triangles) were bent on both sides causing the wheels to point inwards on heavy braking but it was fine and not a fail and to get it sorted when I have the brakes done? OK my French is not fantastic but with a combination of French & English and pointing I was pretty shure of what he was saying.
Now these are massive bits of steel and there is no sign of the vehicle being in a crash certainly not while I have owned it, and it had passed the French test three times before and there is no uneven tyre wear.
Any mechanics out there have any ideas. Could it be worn bushes perhaps, I really can't see how the wishbones could be bent without causing uneven tyre wear or handling problems. And it can't be serious if it is not a fail. No warnings except that the fog lights which the French are so keen to use at any opportunity were badly aligned but acceptable.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Steve

 

[Googlebot]

I would go for the bushes.

If the wishbones were bent, you would know it.

 

[Geoff185]

Steve, agree with above bushes need replacing. If bent would be toeing in all the while. The fact moving under heavy braking points to bushes. Have a look to see if you can get poly bushes rather than the rubber ones, easier to install and more durable.

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[Stealaway]

My mate had a rear axel bent down in the middle, causing some strange wear on his rear tyres.
It seems just the weight and lots of bumps can cause it

 

[Geoff185]

If no uneven tyre wear, something is moving under braking so won’t be a bend. Have a good look at bushes. If you can jack up a wheel and use a good pry bar to see if you can get any movement in the bush

 

[Jake Royd]

As others have said it's very unlikely you have bent a wishbone and even more unlikely you have bent both.
Usually in automotive design the system will be sized to cope with an unlimited amount of 4g bumps Ie. if your wheel static load is say 750Kg at the front, the vehicle can easily cope with 4x that value dynamically , so 3000Kg.
After that , then the duty cycle will consist of other bumps up to may be about 10g or 7500Kg.
These will cause damage but its' very unlikely the vehicle has ever seen anything like that.

Bushes are a likely cause.
Have you had new bushes ? Have they been installed correctly? Many suspension bushes do not have the bolt tube in the centre , it being offset to provide different spring rates in different directions.
Do Ducatos have any toe adjustment? Has it just been set wrong.?
All wheels will toe in under braking, if there is compliance in the system.
Maybe consider having the vehicle inspected on a wheel alignment rig (a Hunter or similar) , this will report your camber as well. If you do have bent wishbones your camber will be out as well.
Are they the correct wishbones for your vehicle.

Hope this helps a bit.

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[eurajohn]

Did the advisory section on the CT mention "ripage" ?

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks for all the above answers. As it is not a fail I presume not dangerous. I very rarely use the brakes but prefer to look ahead and anticipate. Just changed the original front brake pads after 80,000 km. Never having done wishbone bushes, is it a job needing a press or other specialist equipment? I do not have access to a pit so it would be on the ground.
We have to travel to the UK next week and a bit of touring for three months. So will it deteriorate in that time?
Steve

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Did the advisory section on the CT mention "ripage" ?

The only advisory as I said was the Fog lamps; "Mauvaise orientation, Droite"

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[OldAgeTravellers]

If no uneven tyre wear, something is moving under braking so won’t be a bend. Have a good look at bushes. If you can jack up a wheel and use a good pry bar to see if you can get any movement in the bush

That would be a good first step which I can do before I leave next week, then buy the bushes in the UK which would be much cheaper and easier to get. Presumably it is only the bottom ones that wear most.

 

[68c]

All wheels will toe in under braking, if there is compliance in the system.

That surprises me, surely if the wheels are braking the vehicle will try to go straight in forcing the wheels to toe out. I always believed front wheel drive vehicles tend to toe in under acceleration as the wheels try to drag the vehicle forwards. A rear wheel drive vehicle is the opposite in that under power the vehicle pushes the front wheels which then tend to toe out so may have a larger toe in setting.
Do not think front or rear drive makes any difference when braking, both will toe out.
Or have I got this all wrong?

 

[Emmit]

Pre Funster we were tuggers and I will relate actuality.

We were on the A30 turning to go to Newquay. We were tugging a long single Axle caravan with an Audi A6 Est.

We went down the off ramp to a roundabout and, in front of us was a red small Transit type van.

He set off and I made the cardinal mistake of looking right to see if anything was approaching from the right.
Suddenly, (Thank God) Mrs Emmit screamed and I reverted to looking forward to find that the previously mentioned Van had stopped for no reason immediately in front of me.

I jammed all on and managed to Stop with a thump, avoiding a collision. I should explain to those who have not 'tugged' a caravan that the brakes on the caravan are applied when a spring is compressed on the towing A frame and so, when I 'slammed on' that spring got compressed and the caravan brakes came on as well as the car. Effectively I had 6 sets of brakes being applied simultaneously.
The car stopped as if I had run into an invisible brick wall.

I have the feeling (can't prove it) that the Transit was trying for a Crash for cash.

When I set off again I immediately noticed that the steering was all over the place. It was pulling to the left and we came to a halt at the nearest lay by.

We finished up being loaded onto a truck and taken to my local garage.

Examination and stripping revealed that both n/s and o/s steering components were bent. They were were made of metal, oval in shape with a diameter in the region of 3".

I had to convince the Warranty Co. that it was purely down to the action of braking on that one occasion. Fortunately I knew more about the action of the caravan's braking and the weights available to tow than they did.

A long winded story, (apologies) but what it highlights is that, in exceptional circumstances, it is possible for steering components to be bent out of shape without the vehicle sustaining any other damage (ie accident)

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[Geoff185]

Have a look on the powerflex website, they list for Ducato and show fitting. If bushes will be the two as connecting to chassis. Rubber ones will need pressing in( can probably wind in with threaded rod and washers) the powerflex type are just hand pushed in from each side and tube put in centre( think fitting details are on the website. If no major tyre wear and only minor comment on test it will be ok to drive. You will see after you look at bush for deterioration

 

[eurajohn]

The only advisory as I said was the Fog lamps; "Mauvaise orientation, Droite"

Reason I asked that is your description of what was said mirrors the remarks I've had on a few occasions at CT time for both motorhome and cars.
Although no direct meaning for motoring translation, in the sense they use it means skidding, i.e. signs of scuffing on tyres.
If you're looking for parts check out either https://www.mister-auto.com/ or Broken Link Removed.
Both very easy to use and good delivery.

 

[Clipgate]

The wishbones are available with bushes installed, not that you probably need the wishbone however pressing them in unless you have a press or make a press will be a challenge to install new bushes. The cost is not exorbitant, possibly fit new bottom ball joints at the same time as you have it dismantled

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[gus-lopez]

Yes as above you can get them ready to fit.I'm sure Oscaro.Fr do them online.

https://www.oscaro.com/#

 

[Googlebot]

More usual to just buy a new wishbone in my experience.

They aren’t hard to change, I do however remember that some are a pig! I am sure it was a Mondeo that I cut the thing in half so that I could get it off easier. I still had to lower the subframe then as well.

 

[Landy Andy]

I’d be confirming what was said or get an independent opinion on what may or may not be required before buying and fitting new parts. What has been said by the tester doesn’t really make sense to me.

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[donkey]

I’d be confirming what was said or get an independent opinion on what may or may not be required before buying and fitting new parts. What has been said by the tester doesn’t really make sense to me.

I agree with Landy Andy, I would put no faith in what the tester said and get an independent check done, preferably by an English speaking engineer.
Geoff

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks for all the great suggestions I will investigate further when I am in the UK.