Fiat cold start relay problem

[scotty4011]

Hello to everyone on motorhome fun
This is my first post and i'm looking for a bit of help/guidance. I have a 1990 fiat ducato 2.5td and the cold start relay doesn't seem to work as it should. When i turn the ignition on the light flicks on then off again and its tacking a lot of crancking to get her going these days. Are these relays still available?
Many thanks in advance

Jeff

 

[vin0114]

maybe battery very low or gloplugs failing? welcome to FUN.

 

[scotty4011]

Thank vin, but she hasn't got gloplugs she's got a flame plug instead. i have read somewhere about bypassing the original relay but was hopeing someone on here had done it and could give me some advice.

 

[jollyrodger]

Yep done it a successfully a couple of times tho old way is a HD push button( plenty on eBay) wired direct from battery + pole via the button ,ignition, on push buttonfor 30 sec.start engine .if you know how its quite simple .hope this helps

 

[Badknee]

Yep done it a successfully a couple of times tho old way is a HD push button( plenty on eBay) wired direct from battery + pole via the button ,ignition, on push buttonfor 30 sec.start engine .if you know how its quite simple .hope this helps

Haha JR, pictures/wiring diagram/ offer to do it for him might help a bit more.

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[jollyrodger]

Haha JR, pictures/wiring diagram/ offer to do it for him might help a bit more. [/QUOTE]
Naa ! Got enough going on at the mo
Hence if you know what your doing

 

[Badknee]

Haha JR, pictures/wiring diagram/ offer to do it for him might help a bit more.

Naa ! Got enough going on at the mo
Hence if you know what your doing [/QUOTE]
Well of course I would without any hesitation help out this new Funster sort his Fiat out, but I haven't a bloody clue what your talking about, errrrrr, perhaps park on a hill and bump start? (Joke)

 

[TheBig1]

replacement relays can still be bought but very expensive

just locate the relay and identify the power feed and output. wire a push to make switch between them is the quick and dirty fix. not at all complicated

 

[scotty4011]

thanks for all your help. weekend job sorted.

 

[pappajohn]

Whats so special about this relay ?

To me it will have a main feed from the battery/fusebox, a feed to the heater plug, a trigger from the ignition and an earth for same.

You can buy relays of almost any amperage.

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[mikekaren2]

Yep done it a successfully a couple of times tho old way is a HD push button( plenty on eBay) wired direct from battery + pole via the button ,ignition, on push buttonfor 30 sec.start engine .if you know how its quite simple .hope this helps

I also have the same problem on my 1999 Hymer, Ducato 2.8td. If JR or someone could point me in the right direction where the flame plug is (or better still a photo & wireing diagram) I would be happy to make a tutorial mod & post it on here.

 

[Lindsay]

I don't know these particular engines, but a good place to look would be the inlet manifold.

 

[jollyrodger]

On the older Fiat you could easily access the heater plugs or as in the op the heat element but later ones tend to be hidden along under plastic housing .not familiar with your layout mikekaren2

 

[mikekaren2]

When it stops raining I will take a picture and post it here that may help.

Mike

 

[mikekaren2]

I also have the same problem on my 1999 Hymer, Ducato 2.8td. If JR or someone could point me in the right direction where the flame plug is (or better still a photo & wireing diagram) I would be happy to make a tutorial mod & post it on here.

Photos as promised, can anyone narrow down where the flame plug is located, this model doesn't have glow plugs.

Thanks in advance
Mike

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[Nigel67]

Its in the top right hand corner of PIC 2 the copper coloured part. New ones are about £20.

 

[Nigel67]

Its in the top right hand corner of PIC 2 the copper coloured part. New ones are about £20.

Also im not sure just powering the flamestart direct on its own will work as there is also a solenoid that let's fuel on to the flamestart after a certain length of time when it has heated up. Also note that the glow plug\heater dash light will only come on when its below zero degrees all other times it will only flash on/off very quickly. I may be wrong on these facts but this is how i understand it works.

 

[Deleted34567]

Better have this "pinned out" by someone who knows the score.
A blown plug will make the relay go in/out quickly as they usually have a load sensing circuit in them.
Wiring a relay (bendinx starter motor solenoid, used in the old Morris mini) is usually what is used.
I'll do up a diagram if required, but this problem is sortable by any competent auto electrician using the vehicles own circuits. Quite a common fault repair in our workshops.
I can also supply you a schematic if that helps.

 

[Nigel67]

Better have this "pinned out" by someone who knows the score.
A blown plug will make the relay go in/out quickly as they usually have a load sensing circuit in them.
Wiring a relay (bendinx starter motor solenoid, used in the old Morris mini) is usually what is used.
I'll do up a diagram if required, but this problem is sortable by any competent auto electrician using the vehicles own circuits. Quite a common fault repair in our workshops.
I can also supply you a schematic if that helps.

I have done the separate solenoid mod on an lt35 to power the glow plugs after the relay died but like my own m/h which has no conventional glow plugs just the one flamestart fitted in the inlet manifold do you think this will work as the fuel solenoid still has to be powered at the correct time during the heating up period? I have not been able to find a decisive answer for this as its an unusual system, the last vehicle I had with this type of system was a Bedford 330tk engine.

 

[Deleted34567]

I have done the separate solenoid mod on an lt35 to power the glow plugs after the relay died but like my own m/h which has no conventional glow plugs just the one flamestart fitted in the inlet manifold do you think this will work as the fuel solenoid still has to be powered at the correct time during the heating up period? I have not been able to find a decisive answer for this as its an unusual system, the last vehicle I had with this type of system was a Bedford 330tk engine.

Good question,
Not conventional heater plugs.
I take it the "flame plug" heats first and the fuel solenoid is activated later (possibly when cranking). If so, a second relay could do this, or if the fuel solonoid is set to activate after a pre determined time then a circuit using a 555 chip could do it.
I would sort the problem by repairing what the manafacturer had in place if at all possible.

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[mikekaren2]

Better have this "pinned out" by someone who knows the score.
A blown plug will make the relay go in/out quickly as they usually have a load sensing circuit in them.
Wiring a relay (bendinx starter motor solenoid, used in the old Morris mini) is usually what is used.
I'll do up a diagram if required, but this problem is sortable by any competent auto electrician using the vehicles own circuits. Quite a common fault repair in our workshops.
I can also supply you a schematic if that helps.

Jonkil I would appreciate the schematic & any instructions please.

Mike

 

[Deleted34567]

Basic diagram shown below on how a heavy duty relay (Solenoid switch) can be wired to activate a high amperage component.
Would still encourage you to have the vehicles own cold start heater plugs sorted, this diagram may not be suitable for your vehicle if it has the old 'pigtail' wet/dry heating system (A 1990 fiat ducato should have standard 12 volt heater plugs fitted if am not mistaken). If I can help further, get in touch.