Fiat Base Vehicle Conundrum (1 Viewer)

[calculad]

As a prospective buyer of a newish (2001-)motorhome.I am getting the impression that Fiat as a base vehicle are not rated very highly by users.
However motorhome manufacturers seem to use them a lot.
Please can someone explain this paradox.
Cheers

 

[DESCO]

In one word price. They get them at BOGOF prices.



Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

As a prospective buyer of a newish (2001-)motorhome.I am getting the impression that Fiat as a base vehicle are not rated very highly by users.
However motorhome manufacturers seem to use them a lot.
Please can someone explain this paradox.
Cheers

We have a 2003 registered Fiat 2L JTD. Can't fault it. And that includes a really good look underneath during MOT. I noticed a bit of rust this year so I've just thrown £25 of waxoyl on it.

It's the 2006+ juddergate FIATs that are causing heartaches.

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[scotjimland]

As Dave said .. price,

but there is more to it than that, as far as I know Fiat are the only van maker who produce a chassis specifically for the motorhome market, at one time it was the only front wheel drive van, this made it easy to lengthen or use with an ALKO chassis .. that's why most of the older Hymers have Fiat running gear ..They can also make them cheaper due to the bulk orders by converters..

There have been problems with the new Fiat, water ingress to the engine bay, reverse gear juddering, but the older models seem to be pretty good, engine wise they are as good as any and better than some..

I wouldn't hesitate to buy an older Fiat based mh, but would be very wary of new one, that said, many owners are overjoyed and as I have no first hand experience I cannot make an objective judgement ..

jim

 

[Munchie]

I have a 2008 2.3 x250 and it is the best driving Euro van bar none. It is unbelievably stable in all conditions. The torque is fantastic, you can almost stop at a roundabout and pull away effortlessly in third. Yes mine has the dreaded reverse judder and am awaiting Fiat to sort it out. I take the view "how often and how far do you reverse a motorhome?" At the end of the day the benefits outway the downfalls in my view. I have had two of the older 2ltr and 2.3 Fiats and they were also good albeit not as stable as the x250 as it has a wider chassis. Would I buy another Yes :thumb:

 

[peter marshall]

Fiat Base MH

I have had a 2006 reg Fiat MH, a Swift bessacarr which gave me no troubles at all, I now have a Chausson welcome 76,2009 Fiat with the wider wheel base and 6 gears and the difference in the drive and road holding is very noticeable in the new model, I have not yet had the judder so hopefully its not on this vehicle, but if it comes Fiat can fix it, I would have an other no problems. Pete:thumb::thumb:

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[Peter JohnsCross MH]

I think the above should answer your questions, I sell them and will buy in or take in part exchange any Fiat apart from the very old ones as they are not really a resale van for us.

Peter

 

[Ralph-Dot]

I have had two Fiat cars and one Motorhome, love them all

 

[WillH]

I go along with Ken & Steph & peter above, the 2008 x250 is really good to drive, very stable, economical etc. I put mine on a soft verge once under max braking and she stopped in a straight line, no fuss.

Rgds
Bill

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[jhorsf]

At the risk of making enemies I love my Fiat it drives better than any Ford Merc or Renault
in my honest opinion, drive some rather than read about them then you will know yourself:thumb:

 

[stagman]

[If you don't include Fiat in your search then you will miss some very nice vans and your choice would be very limited .:thumb:

 

[Munchie]

At the risk of making enemies I love my Fiat it drives better than any Ford Merc or Renault
in my honest opinion, drive some rather than read about them then you will know yourself:thumb:

I think this is the crux of the matter. Due to the judder and in the early days the water ingress in the scuttle many people read about this and formed their opinions. I was an electrician driver in the army, I have driven for Tarmac (8 leggers) and for a while buses, so I am not without experience in all types of vehicles. The Fiat is a fantastic vehicle and I agree with the above. The engine is a great work horse, good for 300000miles at least and as has been said the new chassis is specifically designed for motorhomes. Ford, Renault and Merc all have their problems as a search on the web will show.
In saying this there have been a few cases of knackered gearboxes and burned out clutches. But I wouldn't mind betting that other marques have a few similar cases and I sympathise with those owners.

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[thestoneroller]

My M/H is a fiat base alko moncayo 2.8 on an 04 plate, no problems here,excellent van, drives well too, would recomend to anybody, but thats my opinion,
Alot depends on what interior you are looking for, for instance if its a ford with all your requirements inside then go for it, same with a merc and so on, at the end of the day it all depends on what you want from the internal of the m/h, the base vehicle in my opinion is neither here or there again like i said thats just my opinion.


good hunting

 

[jezport]

I have been a Ford man upto recently. I now have a 2.8jtd 2005 Ducato on an alko tag chassis, this replaced my 2.0tdci transit. The fiat is a nicer driving position with the dash mounted gear stick, the seats are comfier, the engine is quieter and more refined. The transit was a lot faster but I am pulling an extra ton now. The transit has a slightly better pedal position, but apart from that I prefer driving the Fiat.

 

[pappajohn]

my 2001 2.8td fiat with a wider rear track alko chassis and 5 speed box goes well enough and handles just fine but........



the same van/chassis/box setup with a 2.8jtd would be the cream on the cake.

cant chip a TD model and cruise is expensive for a cable version:Sad:

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[scotjimland]

my 2001 2.8td fiat with a wider rear track alko chassis and 5 speed box goes well enough and handles just fine but........



the same van/chassis/box setup with a 2.8jtd would be the cream on the cake.

cant chip a TD model and cruise is expensive for a cable version:Sad:

That's the downside John.. the upside is that it's a lot less likely to break down and if it does you don't need a nerd with a laptop to fix it ..

I know which one I would prefer to go 'off the beaten track' in :thumb:

jim

 

[jezport]

my 2001 2.8td fiat with a wider rear track alko chassis and 5 speed box goes well enough and handles just fine but........



the same van/chassis/box setup with a 2.8jtd would be the cream on the cake.

cant chip a TD model and cruise is expensive for a cable version:Sad:

I would agree that the 2.8jtd on the alko chassis handles amazing, just need to get mine remapped.

 

[pappajohn]

That's the downside John.. the upside is that it's a lot less likely to break down and if it does you don't need a nerd with a laptop to fix it ..

I know which one I would prefer to go 'off the beaten track' in :thumb:

jim

good point Jim....at least the old 'uns were fixable on the roadside.

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[Reallyretired]

I have had several Fiats with no significant mechanical problems. The front wheel drive is likely to slip even on a bit of wet grass, and the're not as nice to drive as my current Merc, however the layout etc is more important than the base vehicle.

There are probably just more complaints about Fiats because there are such a lot more of them out there than other base vehicles.

An older Fiat is a lot easier to repair than a new one!

 

[thestoneroller]

mapped or chipped, considering myself, is it worth it ,has anybody had it done, and does it give you the extra mpg and performance.oh:

 

[warwick]

I have had three sevels and would buy again, as stated earlier by far the majority of motorhomes are built on Fiats/Peugeots.

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[Frankia]

All of our previous 'vans have been on Fiat from a 1996 2.5 through the 2.8 and to our last one 2007 3.0ltr x250.

The 2.5s were good, The 2.8 - I couldn't believe there was only 300cc difference. The 3.0ltr - best one yet - No judder, plenty of power and to spare even with our 5.2 tonne Frankia, Brilliant seating positions, Totally reliable.

Just ordered our new Frankia, after trying out the Merc version, and guess what it's on a Fiat.

Don't take all the posts on Fiat problems to heart - yes there have been problems but it is made to look much worse when some folks, who have not even driven one, have a lot to say.

 

[Neckender]

We have a 2008 Fiat 2.3 X250 its absolutly Brilliant, Fiat have fixed our reverse Judder, and it is a pleasure to drive. We would deffinatley buy another Fiat.

John.

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Apart from the well documented mechanical problems with the sevel based vehicles, I've read about draughts from the cab whilst driving and when lounging. Not for me I'm afraid, they're popular with converters because they are oh: Cheery? IMHO of course.:thumb:

I looked , I listened, I read, I waited, I bought, a Merc.

R.W.D. and quality rools. O.K.:shout:

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[lebesset]

fiat for me , I was a little apprehensive when I purchased a 2002 registered hymer , admittedly with only 25K miles on the clock , actually a 2001 model

I managed to find the last of the 2.8idTD's , as my use is irregular [ and I live a long way from a fiat agent ] and I specifically wanted not to have a JTD , which seem to prefer regular use ; in any case I prefer engines that a decent diesel mechanic can fix in the back of beyond without a white coat and a computer , no ECU to fail

the much discussed problems with the external 5th gear due to marginal oiling ; I have met a couple of people who have had this , and in both cases they were charge down the motorway continuously in 5th gear types , which I am not ; in any case the fix is basically a DIY job and someone has made a great instruction manual which is free on the internet ; in addition I have put an external magnet on the casing to make sure any chipped off tooth stays in the sump , and will change the oil every 5 years or so
suffice it to say absolutely no problem thus far , and frankly I don't expect there to be , but belt and braces you know

but all in all a great motor vehicle , nice to drive , would recommend to anyone ; yes .I know they have blotted their copybook by overgearing reverse on the 250 but that will be sorted long before I ever think of buying one ; personally I prefer a twin rear wheel rwd vehicle , who wouldn't , but that would mean a heavier vehicle with all the attendant problems in europe of being over 3,500Kg ; but the fiat is the next best thing for me

btw , economy ; I normally drive along at truck speed , 90 Km/hr , which is the legal maximum off motorways in most of europe ; to my amazement I get 30mpg doing this ...I spent 2 weeks driving around london this summer , hardly used 4th gear and certainly never found 5th ...still got 22mpg

 

[hilldweller]

mapped or chipped, considering myself, is it worth it ,has anybody had it done, and does it give you the extra mpg and performance.oh:

Bags of extra torque. Worse mpg if you use it. But up long hills now no need to drop to third to keep up with HGVs.

 

[calculad]

Thanks for replies. Not really into motors so most of the techy stuff is lost on me. Also like some respondents, not into tearing up the motorway. I usually annoy everybody else by sticking to the speed limits. I'm a very unfussy motorist on that side. You have to be in a Bambi (our first motrhome) although they have a brilliant litte engine.

3 quoutes from posts which mean nothing to me. if someone can explain:

??????????????????
“ cant chip a TD model and cruise is expensive for a cable version”

“rear track alko chassis”

“just need to get mine remapped”.

???????????????????????????

Probably relevant to discussion
Our van is a means to an end, that is to get us to nice walking places and provide us with a bit of comfort when we get back to site, so consequently;
More important to us is a large bed and a reliable, safe vehicle.
If Fiats bases fit the bill then I will definitely look at them. I would like to have this option for another reason. As stated by many, there are a lot of them about.
Thanks again for contributions.
K

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[scotjimland]

3 quoutes from posts which mean nothing to me. if someone can explain:

??????????????????
“ cant chip a TD model and cruise is expensive for a cable version”

TD is old technology, no engine computer so it can't be re tuned to improve performance... on the plus side, it can be repaired by a black smith..

Cruise control can be fitted but is more expensive as it's mechanical rather than electronic.

“rear track alko chassis”

AL-Ko chassis replaces the original Fiat chassis, is wider and some say better handling ..

“just need to get mine remapped”.

Re mapped or Re tuned using a laptop and special software, changes the engine parameters , similar to chipping where the chip or IC is changed in the Engine Computer .. can only be done to a JTD .. see above

???????????????????????????

hth

jim

 

[vwalan]

as a traveller who goes all over europe and regulary into morocco i must say that the fiats are every where .I do see them up mountain tracks and down on some of the beaches. Ihave friends that have them with no real complaint >Thet dont like the wet grass or muddy slopes,also some complain that tag axles make some of the mountai roads harder to conquer.
Earlier mercs rule with the long term travellers but they are getting too old now ,like the 309/409/508 type. The newer sprinters do seem to have computer type problems just like all the newer stuff.
To be honest afew friends have ldv convoy vehicles they are cheap and perform very well.
Its hard to say whats best really as we all want different things from our campers .
sSome use them at weekends only some longterm here and away each needing something different.
Nobody really builds bad vehicles these days . If you just want to poodle along you do have a vast choice only you can make it,the rest of us will only confuse issues.

 

[arthur49]

We purchased an X250 2.3 in July 09 knowing full well that there were issues with the gearbox etc - our dealer did not deny this. We test drove the m/h and found no judder or vibration.........but then it only had a few miles on the clock and issues may well develop with mileage. I did have a concern with the reverse gear ratio however. Seemed to be hellish fast in reverse! However, it was otherwise a great drive. (Yes, tall passengers need to duck down a little in rain to look through the cleared windscreen but its not an issue for my passenger)
Some may say we were reckless or had too much money (we don't) or both in buying an X250 but after viewing about 150 m/h - didn't drive them all!!! - we really liked the one we chose, and still do. It best suited our needs and taste so we went for it.
After about 2000 miles noticed a 'slap' on starting (not too bad) and a slight judder on taking up drive going forwards. Strangely nothing in reverse .......... but that reverse ratio was definitely too high and, to me, the issue that was likely to do damage. I know our chassis was made in May 2008 so is the 'original' gearbox.
Spoke to Fiat and I've had mods a) and b) done ie mounts etc and lower reverse ratio ........ and I have it in writing. What a difference - no trace of 'slap', judder or vibration and now reverses at a sensible speed.
The service from Fiat and my dealer was excellent. We loved our m/h before the mods and now its even better.
Would I buy another X250 2.3 litre? Definitely.
Arthur

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