FAQs - Our Motorhome Notes (2 Viewers)

[icantremember]

Keep up the good work

Thank you Jim. I know exactly why I get flak from certain people but it is not worth going into detail other than to say if anybody thinks I am referring to them then that conclusion is theirs based on their own knowledge of their own character traits which, as a result, perhaps they should examine

Graham, what you are doing is good value and a worthwhile exercise particularly for anyone new to our hobby and being the nosey parker that I am I also enjoy reading your work.

I very much doubt that anyone is giving you any flak on a personal basis so please don't let it get to you .... I'm certain most folk on here accept and appreciate your efforts in the way intended by you.:thumb:

 

[Taran_Las]

He has been to Abergele, [HI]it rained[/HI]..

You expect me to believe that!

 

[GJH]

Where's the foreign travel section in FAQs?

He has been to Abergele, it rained..

And not just Abergele. We've been to Bristol and Dorset as well

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[Taran_Las]

And not just Abergele. We've been to Bristol and Dorset as well

Show off!

 

[Wildman]

I apologise for offending you GJH.

We are all entitled to our own opinion and I have stated mine. The fact that you posted on here for people to read it will make you vulnerable to criticism. I still maintain that you are 'suggesting' by default that your answers are the correct answers, this is simply not true, they are your belief and are not by definition fact based.

I don't want to get into a bun fight over this. My posting very simply offered an alternative to the biassed views that you take.

For the record I agree with others that a 'FAQ' kind of article is quite valid and helpful to many newcomers.

:thumb:

How many times does it have to be said, what was written is based in his OWN experiences, it was not promulgated as a panacea for all ills. I fail for the life of me to see why in an effort to help people anyone should receive the sort of responses you are coming back with. The site is free, you have a personal choice to read it or not. If you feel you can publish something that would better suit people then of course you are free to do so. The maxim "be nice or be gone comes to mind". But maybe that is a bit over the top. Graham is only trying to help, no other motive. I find your attitude very difficult to understand. Perhaps it is caused by a dose of cabin fever, never mind summer is just around the corner, only 7 years away.

 

[Chockswahay]

How many times does it have to be said, what was written is based in his OWN experiences, it was not promulgated as a panacea for all ills. I fail for the life of me to see why in an effort to help people anyone should receive the sort of responses you are coming back with. The site is free, you have a personal choice to read it or not. If you feel you can publish something that would better suit people then of course you are free to do so. The maxim "be nice or be gone comes to mind". But maybe that is a bit over the top. Graham is only trying to help, no other motive. I find your attitude very difficult to understand. Perhaps it is caused by a dose of cabin fever, never mind summer is just around the corner, only 7 years away.

Right, time to nip this one in the bud :shout:

I simply put forward constructive criticism. GJH took offence and said so. I have apologised for offending him.

Time to move on i think............. it would appear that some contributors to this forum are a little bit more sycophantic than I realised :Mad:

It seems apparent to me that only 'Fun' remarks are allowed and that meaningful debate is clearly frowned upon.

I can not be bothered quite frankly........

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[drago35uk]

Interesting read Graham,thanks for sharing.

 

[rangi]

It seems apparent to me that only[HI] 'Fun' remarks are allowed and that meaningful debate is clearly frowned upon.[/HI]

........

OR:Blush:

Just perhaps!

A lot of us take the more laidback, less confrontational look at life:thumb:

 

[Chockswahay]

A lot of us take the more laidback, less confrontational look at life:thumb:

Proves my point

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[Taran_Las]

Proves my point

Only 9 more sleeps to go:thumb:

 

[Chockswahay]

Only 9 more sleeps to go:thumb:

Lol, thanks Taran Las

 

[GJH]

As states in the OP, the notes page very much a work in progress so will probably never be complete. In the last couple of days I've added several new sections and revised other to (hopefully) provide clarification.

As before, if people do not wish to read the page then they do not have to do so and if, having read the page, people do not agree with what I have written then they do not have to do so.

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[JJ]

I have lived in a motorhome, not just on holiday or at weekends but living... and not on campsites for weeks on end... but out on the highways and byways of the UK and Europe for over thirty years so there is nothing that GJH can teach me, right?

WRONG!

I learnt more new facts and tips from the original post than I have anywhere else in years.

Thanks for all the work Graham.

JJ:Cool:

 

[carolyn]

Thanks Graham, Nick and I need all the help we can get! As my mum used to say"if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all"

 

[Chockswahay]

Sycophantic ...............

Obsequious ...............

Two very interesting words

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[maz]

Sycophantic ...............

Obsequious ...............

Two very interesting words

As are 'tedious' and 'tenacious' .........

 

[Chockswahay]

Actually, since many on here are hell bent on stating their views so clearly

I will state mine .....CLEARLY

'One' (anyone) can air their views on a public forum. In turn they might expect comment or indeed criticism. I am truly surprised at the rounding up and 'herding' that is being expressed on here and quite clearly aimed at me.

If any of the above contributors care to re read my remarks you will see that I was constructive in my comments and having noticed that GJH was upset I offered a public apology (something that many of you have failed to notice!).

For the record I maintain that the views that GJH expressed regarding wild camping are complete and utter rubbish. As for the rest of his web page it does read very much as a personal experience and must NOT be seen as definitive.

Perhaps GJH and everyone else for that matter might like to read this article below

http://www.wikihow.com/Write-Without-Bias

:Angry:

 

[maz]

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[Chockswahay]

As are 'tedious' and 'tenacious' .........

You are quite right Maz

This thread has become "Tiresome by reason of length, slowness, or dullness; boring"

And I reserve my right to be "Holding or tending to hold persistently to something, such as a point of view"

 

[maz]

 

[debdabble]

I have just read this thread as a 'newbie' and I have to say that I would rather just be able to ask a question and have lots of various standpoints than go to a long article trying to cover lots of things - well meaning as it was.

I personally don't agree with the 'wild camping' rant - as it comes across . We intend to be 'wild, free, call it whatever you want' camping whenever possible, whilst not offending or upsetting anyone as we will have made enquiries as to what is allowed. We aim to live as frugally as possible and living this way this makes retiring early a reality. Our main aim is to travel Europe and seek out the sun, and it would seem a lot of the countries there are so much better equipped for motorhomers than here.

Debbie

Debbie

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[GJH]

(snip)
For the record I maintain that the views that GJH expressed regarding wild camping are complete and utter rubbish. As for the rest of his web page it does read very much as a personal experience and must NOT be seen as definitive.(snip)

One of the revisions I referred to earlier today is to clarify the law regarding off site camping. If my interpretation of the law (as expressed on the Notes web page) is incorrect then perhaps somebody would please provide us with the correct interpretation. If that can be done in an evidenced manner then it may well show that the off site camping section is complete and utter rubbish. If such evidence cannot be provided then maybe, just maybe, it isn't complete and utter rubbish. I look forward to reading constructive responses based on the actual content of the law as it stands, rather than just what some would like it to be.

As regards "personal experience", what (if any) elements of the statement "This is an attempt to provide answers to some of those questions based on our experiences" are unclear?

 

[JJ]

Sycophantic ...............

Obsequious ...............

Two very interesting words

As are stubborn and impolite... :thumb:

JJ:Cool:

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

It's a sad state of affairs when someone voices their opinion on an open forum and the result is basically a witch hunt!
It could appear to some that there's a club within a club and if you upset one, well you can see the result!

Vlad

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[Jim]

I don't think there is a which-hunt. very often its the way things are said rather than what is said and people feel compelled to join in. Someone upset GJH, I'm sure not massively so. They quickly apologized; that really should have been the end of that. oh:

As for the wild camping thing, I have firm beliefs of my own about that. They are in direct opposition to the opinions held by GJH. However, when I find the time to set them out, I'm sure GJH will argue his points and rubbish mine.. BUT through reasoned argument... rather than calling my opinion "utter tosh or rubbish"

Proving a post is rubbish with a well thought through and logical argument is infinitely better than actually calling it so, and it does lead to less bickering, especially at this time of year when we're all itching for summer to start.

 

[Chockswahay]

I request that Jim locks this thread before it really does get out of hand and that a line is drawn in the sand now.

 

[Andrew G M]

Almost inevitably the same questions arise on motorhome forums as new members join having just bought a motorhome (or being in the process of considering one). For a while now I've had in the back of my mind the idea of creating a web page based on our own experiences to attempt to provide answers to some of those questions.

It is very much a work in progress so will probably never be complete. Hopefully it will be of use to somebody. Click Here.

Just wanted to say how helpful your post is in my on going search.

Many thanks

Andrew

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[GJH]

There is one point which chockswahay made with which I totally agree. That is "The fact that you posted on here for people to read it will make you vulnerable to criticism."

I am perfectly happy to accept that but I hope chockswahay will allow that the same applies to all posters equally and that criticism does not equate to a witch hunt or lack of respect per se.

I've just had a look at the section on Off Site Camping and, yes, it does contain some of my opinions. However, the vast majority - in red in the box below - is fact.

I use the term "Off Site Camping" rather than "Wild Camping" deliberately. In Scotland (the only area of the UK where there are statutory rights to wild camp) there is a definition of Wild Camping enshrined in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (set up as a requirement of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003). The Scottish Outdoor Access Code gives the following advice regarding wild camping: “Wild camping is defined as lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two to three nights in one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals and keeping well away from buildings roads or historic structures. Take care to avoid disturbing deer stalking or grouse shooting. If you wish to camp close to a house or building, seek the owner’s permission. Leave no trace by: Taking away all your litter; Removing all traces of your tent pitch and of any open fire (follow the guidance for lighting fires); Not causing any pollution.” Thus, camping in a motorhome is not wild camping. Other areas of the UK do not have such a definition in law but using the term Off Site Camping provides for consistency.
Within the whole of the UK, all land is owned by some body, be that a natural person, a private company or a public body.
Where land is a highway maintainable at the public expense (i.e. owned by a local highways authority or the Department for Transport) specific legislation governs its use. A highway normally includes more than just the road itself, encompassing verges, laybys etc. The question of whether or not there is a right to camp overnight at the roadside and/or in a lay-by is one which is raised from time to time. Enquiring of the Department for Transport established that there appears to be no national legislation which either specifically permits or prohibits roadside camping. There are, however, a number of restrictions which apply to waiting and parking. These are summarised in Rules 238-252 of the Highway Code. The text in the Highway Code contains details of the primary and secondary legislation which give effect to the restrictions. There are particular requirements for parking at night, including requirements for use of lights in some circumstances (Rules 248 – 250). In addition, some local authorities have passed Traffic Regulation Orders which permit/prohibit overnight camping in vehicles within the area over which they have jurisdiction. Overnight sleeping in a layby might be allowed for drivers of goods vehicles only. This is a result of recognition that their drivers are compelled by law to take breaks at certain times.
In regard to other (off road) land, any person or organisation offering overnight stops for motorhomes in the UK must do so in compliance with the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. For a brief analysis of the relevant parts of the Act Click Here. Without a licence or exemption, individuals and organisations lay themselves open to prosecution. That is why the major supermarkets and pub chains do not (officially) allow camping in their car parks; if a manager were to (unofficially) allow it and action were to be taken against the company as a result there is little doubt that the manager would be left to take the blame. Where one camps without the landowner's permission, the civil offence of trespass may also be committed.
From time to time one sees claims on forums such as "we are only parking, not camping". Frankly, that is just so much bovine guano. We all know the difference between stopping for the night (including sleeping, eating &c) and mere parking. To comply with the legislative provisions noted above, legal off site camping is confined to those places where it is not restricted (mainly laybys with no Traffic Regulation Order banning camping). Selfishly indulging in overnight camping where it is not allowed gives the wrong impression of motorhome owners as a whole to authorities and increases the risk that they will take action to introduce restrictions in more places (as has happened in some areas already).
We also see threads along the lines of "the government says we shouldn't drive when tired so should make provision for us to rest". That completely ignores the fact that motorhomers (unlike HGV drivers for instance) are masters of their own destiny and have every opportunity to plan their journeys such that their routes include places where they can take a break when necessary.
A third type of regular forum thread is the one complaining that the UK authorities should provide aire type facilities in a similar manner to countries in mainland Europe. Almost invariably, those who start the thread (and many of those who support them) have made no effort to contact any local authority to try to start constructive negotiations aimed at providing such facilities - they merely expect to get what they want just because they want it. The several on-line petitions that have been started in recent years have each attracted well under 1,000 signatures, a clear indication of the tiny minority of UK motorhomers who are actually willing to take the merest action to achieve aires.
Some claim that aires would bring economic benefit to towns because motorhomers would spend money there. That ignores the facts that many people stock up before leaving home and those that only want an overnight stop have no time to shop anyway. Such claims almost inevitably discount the costs of setting up and managing facilities, often enough because the people making the claims simply have no concept of what is involved and make a fairy tale like (and inaccurate) assumption that they are not significant.

So, yes there is opinion but the vast majority of the section is fact - fact gleaned from over 6 years of in depth study of parking for motorhomes and enquiring of official bodies to ensure accuracy and fact gleaned from actually being involved in the setting up of an aire (which, as it happened, tended to prove the point of lack of demand, being short-lived because it was not used).

I accept that others will have different opinions of what is acceptable to them but that does not alter the facts - and it is facts which make up the vast majority of the section. Having said that, as I said previously, I am very happy for anybody to post evidence which disproves those facts if they can find any.

 

[JockandRita]

I don't think there is a which-hunt. very often its the way things are said rather than what is said and people feel compelled to join in. Someone upset GJH, I'm sure not massively so. They quickly apologized; that really should have been the end of that. oh:

As for the wild camping thing, I have firm beliefs of my own about that. They are in direct opposition to the opinions held by GJH. However, when I find the time to set them out, I'm sure GJH will argue his points and rubbish mine.. BUT through reasoned argument... rather than calling my opinion "utter tosh or rubbish"

Proving a post is rubbish with a well thought through and logical argument is infinitely better than actually calling it so, and it does lead to less bickering, especially at this time of year when we're all itching for summer to start.

Tamam. :thumb:

Jock.

 

[GJH]

Having slept on it I've edited the section on Off Site Camping, basically leaving just what is in red in the post above.

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