family turned away from campsite (1 Viewer)

[lebesset]

surely the site owners are allowed to refuse who they want , without giving a reason
is a publican allowed to choose who he admits to his pub ?
both of these are private premises , can't they do what they please ?

presumably I can choose who to select who I admit to my private property , my home

can't see that these people are doing anything illegal

just boycott them in my opinion

 

[geoff587]

Myths, I,m surrounded by travellers, and deal with them on a weekly basis, you live in your dream world and I,ll survive in the real world . Where they buy land, build without planning permission, threaten the neighbours, throw rubbish over your wall and intimidate you if you let them. For people who don,t work how do you think they all drive new 4x4,s , have luxurious caravans and a bank roll which would choke a donkey . Try coming to Doncaster on a race week , or camping at Billing and see if your bike, generator, chairs are still there the next day , Trusting travellers now that is gullible on a grand scale . Any one who is a gorges (non traveller) is fair game for ripping off.

You,ll be telling me how good Asylum seekers are for our economy and culture next.

 

[ArenqueRojo]

Hi Geoff587,
I guess we won't agree and I accept your viewpoint as you see it.

For the record, I have emailed the site manager in the case as follows:

I am sure you are aware by now that a report was made on a couple of motorhome forums that a family were turned away after making a confirmed booking at your site.
The report indicates that this was an attempt to prevent "travellers" from using the site.
If this report is essentially true, then tha anger that it has generated and the loss of goodwill to both your campsites and your dealership is, in my opinion, justified. I further suspect that it will impact your company's bottom line.
However, the point I would like to raise with you is that the "policy" you appear to be promoting is based on ill-informed mythology.
I don't blame you for believing the myths. They are long-standing and commonly found.
This doesn't make them true.
I am a retired local politician (ward councillor and ex-mayor). I am also a keen motorhomer.
During my working life I have had to deal with a number of issues arising from "travellers" appearing in my area.
As a result of seeing the ignorance which lay behind many of these complaints, I felt it was sensible to at least make the effort to find out what was truth and what was myth.
I took this to national level and was appalled at what I found! It amounted to racial persecution on a significant scale.
There have now been a number of independent studies made and evidence from police forces throught the British Isles has been collected.
The result of these studies show that "travellers" have no greater percentage of offending people than the rest of us.
Rumours of "leaving the place a tip" are equally skewed. Yes, of course there are instances of such behaviour, but no more so than for the rest of the population of this country.
As a result of these rumours and prejudices, many people feel that the inclusion of "travellers" in their enterprises, such as that which you manage, will "lower the tone" and put others off visiting your sites.
This latter point is doubtless true and, I imagine, the basis of your policy.
Recognising that issue, I would urge you and your colleagues to stand up for what you must know to be right even though you will get complaints from those who have had no real dealings with travellers.
You will get complaints whichever way you go in this matter.
My plea is that you take the moral high ground and prefer to deal with those whose ignorance breeds this type of racial prejudice rather than from those of us who would protect the rights and needs of the oppressed minority that are the travelling community.
I do hope that you will consider the points I have made. If you would like reference in support of the assertions I have made or to the European reports on this type of racial discrimination, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Your faithfully
Patrick Phillips

PS. I am not a traveller. Nor have I any connection with any of the groups of travelling communities.

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[geoff587]

Well you may have found the stories myths in your proffessional dealings, but my opinions are based on fact over years of contact with them and aware of some of the goings on in their communities. Dealing with officialdom and jumping on the human rights bandwagon they are a persecuted minority, in real life they are hard-cases who will do what ever is necessary to achive what they want.

But we will agree too differ while I go and check my pick-up is still outside as they asked me if I wanted to sell it yesterday, so it could be gone tomorrow:Sad:

 

[Hayleylulu]

i have to disagree with you also geoff, i have been in the company of travellers on more than a few occasions and have found them a smashing lot. i am more than impressed with the importance they put on family values. i also lived next door to a travelling family who for a time through health reasons could not live in their trailer. the children were delightful as were the mammie and daddy. i like to think i can see the good and bad in all.

 

[geoff587]

Your experience of travellers is obviously different too mine, disagreeing does not alter the facts they are not capable of telling the truth if their life's depend on it. This is based on my experience of travellers which goes deeper than living next door too one family. They do place a lot of value on their family , but have no respect for anybody outside the travelling community.
I,m sure the number of bad experiences with travellers far outnumbers the good ones.

Pickup is still there

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[Hayleylulu]

to try and filter out travellers by banning certain types of vehicles is ridiculous. Should be done for discrimination.

am with you roger as we are all travellers are we not:thumb:

 

[ArenqueRojo]

I,m sure the number of bad experiences with travellers far outnumbers the good ones.

That is just the point I think we are trying to make, Geoff. When you dig a little deeper nationally, that is not the case.
I am guessing you have a rogue family there in Doncaster who may well bring others of the same ilk.
Just the same happens with non-travelling folk. As a councillor, I saw whole estates go bad because of one rogue family many a time. Get the rogues sorted out and everything goes back to normal.
It isn't because they are travellers. There are "bad-uns" in every society.
Hope you don't have to suffer from the bunch you are having problems with too long. Maybe ask your councillor to get involved... Thats what you elect them for, isn't it?
Patrick

 

[geoff587]

I know you will just regard this as a myth, but we don,t have a rouge family we have a rouge community on several camps. Some of which are no go areas to the police.
Agree too disagree is the closest were going to get on this subject.


Local councillors

Too busy trying to keep their jobs with the New Mayor of Doncaster amongst them wielding an axe .
And no one dare speak out against "minorities " its not P.C , against their Human Rights and it means your an out and out racist in this present political climate.

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[Supertractorman]

I believe there may be more of a problem in Scotland due to travellers and attach a response I put on the Motorhometoday forum.

"Some friends of mine stayed on a Council Run Caravan site last year in Scotland, and all was peaceful until a Hobby caravan arrived and set up, then in the evening further of this type of van arrived, and I believe were let on site by the first van. After the owners of these vans went drinking in one of the towns hostelries they arrived back at the site and by 2am and a full blown fight and riot took place and my friends and other caravanners were frightened for their lives as people were running riot and bashing into their vans while running around. The next thing was a number of Police cars arrived with sirens going and rounded up the trouble makers and took them away. My friends and others left hastily next morning after the Manager apologised profusely as everything had gone out of his control. In the next week they then received an apology letter from the Council plus a voucher for 3 nights free stay as compensation. ( They have now used this with no problems I add ).
The group were Travellers and on reading this report I have a feeling this may have happened on other sites hence Site owners taking precautions."

 

[dunfundee]

Family turned away

Having been the manager of a holiday park for some years I have never ever known genuine customers to be happy when travellers arrived on-site. Travellers in the past have been abusive and violent towards me with very liitle help or support from the police. I would suggest that this park's motives have been good and aimed to keep the park for the genuine tax paying, law abiding customers.I think anybody who says that they would be confortable on a park full of travellers are deluded.
Calling for other forum users to boycott this park shows how little people have in their lives.
From a knowlegeable park manager.

 

[ArenqueRojo]

Having been the manager of a holiday park for some years I have never ever known genuine customers to be happy when travellers arrived on-site.

I am a fulltimer living in a LeVoyageur. White middle class elderley. Towing a trailor with Smart car, 2 bicycles and a small folding boat.
Am I a "genuine" customer"?
QUOTE=dunfundee;198481]genuine tax paying, law abiding customers.[/QUOTE]
Travellers pay tax and council tax just like everyone else. This is the sort of ill-informed comment that perpetuates the myths.
QUOTE=dunfundee;198481]I think anybody who says that they would be confortable on a park full of travellers are deluded..[/QUOTE]
If you look at the various forums, you will see that many of us have at one time or another
a) camped on traveller sites without any problems
b) been grateful for the help and courstesy they have received.
Personally, I would rather camp with travellers than camp with the BNP.
QUOTE=dunfundee;198481]Calling for other forum users to boycott this park shows how little people have in their lives.[/QUOTE]
I suggest that it isn't that we have little in our lives but rather we would like to avoid those who promote prejudice and a judgemental ethos.
What ap[pears to have happened to the OP was unforgiveable and should not be tolerated in the sort of society that most of us want to live in.
QUOTE=dunfundee;198481]From a knowlegeable park manager.[/QUOTE]
Knowledegable? You think that Hobby brand is predominately sold to "travellers"?
What about Bessacar, Fendt etc?
Do you actually know the differnce between a Roma and a Pavee? There are 2 Gitano vans on the site we are on in Bologna. There are about 10 other vans occupied by middle class white Germans, Dutch, Belgium, Italian and just the one Brit - us. All happy with each other.
Maybe you would like to exclude Jews because the Arabs don't get on with them, or the other way round?
You are promoting a very, very dangerous philosophy.

Regards
Patrick

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[dunfundee]

This is a ridiculous reply to my original post. For your information in Scotland travelling people do not pay any taxes etc as they are not resident in any one place long enough. Having prev worked for inland revenue I have never seen a traveller declare there earnings! So perhaps you would like to tell me where you get your information from?? La la land perhaps!!!
As a manager of a park I welcome visitors from all over the world but if anybody was aggressive or abusive (as every encounter I have had with travellers has been) they would not be allowed to stay.
I resent you suggesting I am racist.
Only intelligient, well informed replies please.

 

[stagman]

Having been the manager of a holiday park for some years I have never ever known genuine customers to be happy when travellers arrived on-site.


Totally agree there is no way I or my friends would stay on a site where in the presence of travelers .Many times in France we have pulled out of any such sites . On another note I used to work for a local authority which would take me very close to where travellers camped .They had purpose made Toilet blocks , showers , laundry rooms ,and hook up points made for them . All out of our money . Guess what they done to them .

 

[geoff587]

Glad too see that's its not only me who realises Travellers only take from our society and contribute nothing. Pay tax and council tax now that would be a first, everything is cash only.
Unfortunately in this present PC climate having an opinion on people based on real life experience labels you with that well worn phrase of Racist. Though I tend to think of myself as a realist.

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[Bulletguy]

Those living fulltime (365 days a year) in motorhomes won't be paying any council taxes either, or for that matter any kind of UK tax, apart from vehicle tax, if they are out of the country.

Does this put them in the same category then as 'travellers'?

Why anyone driving a Hobby or Fendt should be any different from someone driving a Hymer or whatever else, God only knows! I drive a Transit, the 'preferred choice' of the gypsy or rag 'n bone man, but I've worked in the Defence Industry for the past 25 years.

 

[stagman]

Those living fulltime (365 days a year) in motorhomes won't be paying any council taxes either, or for that matter any kind of UK tax, apart from vehicle tax, if they are out of the country.

Does this put them in the same category then as 'travellers'?

Why anyone driving a Hobby or Fendt should be any different from someone driving a Hymer or whatever else, God only knows! I drive a Transit, the 'preferred choice' of the gypsy or rag 'n bone man, but I've worked in the Defence Industry for the past 25 years.

Most or if not all those Motorhomers that have now decided to go full timing are probabally in their late 50s or older , and have over the years payed their taxes , and have made contribution to the country .The travellers we are talking about here never have and never will .And personally I have nothing against anyone driving a Hobby or a Fendt , and to be honest they are 2 m/homes that I would consider buying in the future .

 

[bigfoot]

Boy oh boy this thread is FUN!!!!

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[Bulletguy]

Most or if not all those Motorhomers that have now decided to go full timing are probabally in their late 50s or older , and have over the years payed their taxes , and have made contribution to the country .The travellers we are talking about here never have and never will .And personally I have nothing against anyone driving a Hobby or a Fendt , and to be honest they are 2 m/homes that I would consider buying in the future .

Cant think of many dole drawers making much of a 'contribution' to their country or for that matter paying tax!

 

[stagman]

Cant think of many dole drawers making much of a 'contribution' to their country or for that matter paying tax!

True , and can't see many dole drawers owning motorhomes in the future.

 

[geoff587]

My opinion is based on experiences with travellers, not people who drive the same vehicle, though I realise that was the original post and it was a wrong decision (in my opnion) on the Camp site too ban someone based on their vehicle of choice.
. It does not take more than a minuet in their company to realise who is a traveller and who is not . Because someone is full timing in their motor-home does not make them by definition a traveller as in being of the Gypsy fraternity.

Though I bought this guy of the Travellers so I do have something to thank them for .

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[madbluemad]

There's a group of gypsies that have camped on a small field around the corner from were I work. They have been there a week. They dont seem to be causing any trouble but then I dont live in the area.

Over the week the place is now becoming unkempt and dirty, there is washing hanging from tree branches and a couple of motors with the bonnets permanantley open There's a nice comfy set of tables and chairs in the middle of the field and plenty of kids running around wild.

Less than a mile away on the banks of a canal there is a purpose built site for travellers. Toilets, showers, hard standing etc etc. This was once a popular spot for local people to park and have a wander up and down the canal. Local people can no longer access the canal from here.

Its all free

All this is hard to swallow when your in work knocking your pan out. Its got nothing to do with racism etc but everything to do with whats fair and whats not fair.

Ive heard that people wander off to Spain and live off their doll money again without doing a tap. If I ever was to identify one I'd be on the phone to the social right away.

Things are and have always been hard enough without having to carry bone idle lazy b's as well.

Jim

 

[Wildman]

Because someone is full timing in their motor-home does not make them by definition a traveller as in being of the Gypsy fraternity.

Here we go again. Full time or not I am a traveller I am a gypsy at heart, it is not and should not be used as a derogatory term to do so is being RACIST intended or not.:Angry::Angry::Angry::Angry:

 

[geoff587]

Racist, the most overused word in the English language, used to stop anyone having a different opinion or engaging in dialogue about unsocial behaviour or crimes committed by an Ethnic minority. . It should be a crime to call some one racist because their opinion is different to yours. Come and camp on a Travellers site in Doncaster for a week and tell me your a Gypsy at heart. When your wondering where all your possession have gone.

P.S What is racist or derogatory about the term Gypsy Fraternity ?

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[pappajohn]

Racist, the most overused word in the English language, used to stop anyone having a different opnion . .

:thumb: agreed.

 

[scotjimland]

Grazing ..

My wife worked in Sainsburys and was told NOT to interfere or challenge travellers, it just wasn't worth it, so they do as they like and pay for nowt.

They come in to 'graze' , (that's the term they use) They start with the hot food, (chicken is a favourite), then move on to the salad and fruit bar, .. that's all washed down with some beer or wine.. they then stroll out.. all done openly.

This is usually in a family group and the kids get stuck into anything they fancy..

You KNOW who is paying for it ... :Angry:

 

[geoff587]

My wife worked in Sainsburys and was told NOT to interfere or challenge travellers, it just wasn't worth it, so they do as they like and pay for nowt.

They come in to 'graze' , (that's the term they use) They start with the hot food, (chicken is a favourite), then move on to the salad and fruit bar, .. that's all washed down with some beer or wine.. they then stroll out.. all done openly.

This is usually in a family group and the kids get stuck into anything they fancy..

You KNOW who is paying for it ... :Angry:

Us bloody racist,s

1993-1994 Logistics Consultant Bosnia
1994-1995 Convoy Manager Rwanda
1995-1997 Convoy Manager Bosnia
1999-2000 Convoy Manager Albania /Kosovo

All the above posts were for the United Nations Refugee Council, I have seen at first hand what the results of Racism are . Rwanda over 800,000 Tutsi killed. So I don,t take the term lightly, but think it is wrong when I have to temper my believes to accommodate the beliefs of minorities and foreigners. Peaceful co-existence is a 2 way street.

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[john3589]

I am a retired local politician (ward councillor and ex-mayor). I am also a keen motorhomer. (OBVIOUSLY FULL OF HIS OWN SELF-IMPORTANCE)


After reading Patrick Phillips comments I am quite frankly disgusted with his views. It shows how narrow minded some people can be. I'm sure he'd love it if the travellers stole his Smart car whilst the Lord Mayor was sleeping at night. Nobody cares Patrick what you used to be - get a life.

 

[geoff587]

Though Patrick and I are as far apart politically as is possible on the Traveller debate, I can assure you he is my no means narrow minded or full of his own self importance.
In a pm from Patrick he had took the time to research the Traveller Problem in my area and understood how I came too have my point of view, though it was a complete contradiction too his own
He had no need to pm me or offer assistance through people he knew, for which I have the up-most respect for him. Your personal attack on him is uncalled for . Most peoples first post is too introduce themselves.

 

[vwalan]

having monitered this thread i have decided to add my pennyith . it does appear some on this site dislike travellers .is it not a fact that part of the fighting against hitler was because he /germany wanted to get rid of gypsies, travellers etc. pause for thought.. did he not see what was happening to germany at the time. they have had lots more gypsie traveller type folk than us and lots of other nationals. are not some of you going the way of the nazis regime and are not too far away from ethnic cleansing of the same type . theft is not acceptable but campsites etc turning away travellers ,that strikes like ethnic cleansing to me. its just not acceptable to have a hobby van or camper why not turn it on american vans .some of you dont like america /americans . seems to me we havent learnt much in the past 60 yrs. cheers alan.

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