External BBQ point.......How much!!! (1 Viewer)

[tony_g]

understood.. I was thinking on my van where the manifold is very accessible , just in front of the sink, in full view when you pull out the cutlery drawer.. .(you can see it in the photo) .. if it was hidden away then it would be of little good ..

@Northernraider as for suggesting gas could never be the same or as good as charcoal, I was also a non believer.. until I bought a Weber Q ..

the taste comes from the smoke of the burning juices and fat.. not the charcoal.. would never go back to using charcoal again. ..
I use my Weber twice or sometimes three times a day.. couldn't be arsed doing that would lumpwood or a charcoal barbie.

I use a big Weber kettle at home for smoking brisket .. but that's a different kettle of fish..

That's a big thumbs up from me for the Weber Q!

 

[Tykatem]

Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 state

(6) No person shall install a gas appliance without there being at the inlet to it means of shutting off the supply of gas to the appliance unless the provision of such means is not reasonably practicable.

Surely those regulations only apply to "fixed" internal appliances and not an external mobile one!
As for isolating the the gas BBQ point in the event of a fire, one would presume that it would be used whilst being supervised and instead of having to dash inside the motorhome and opening a cupboard door to isolate at the manifold, it would be easier and quicker to do so at the bottle valve within the gas locker, or simply disconnecting the Bullfinch connector.


Pete

 

[Northernraider]

understood.. I was thinking on my van where the manifold is very accessible , just in front of the sink, in full view when you pull out the cutlery drawer.. .(you can see it in the photo) .. if it was hidden away then it would be of little good ..

@Northernraider as for suggesting gas could never be the same or as good as charcoal, I was also a non believer.. until I bought a Weber Q ..

the taste comes from the smoke of the burning juices and fat.. not the charcoal.. would never go back to using charcoal again. ..
I use my Weber twice or sometimes three times a day.. couldn't be arsed doing that would lumpwood or a charcoal barbie.

I use a big Weber kettle at home for smoking brisket .. but that's a different kettle of fish..

2 or 3 times a day ?

I'm only a cereal for breakfast sandwich for lunch type of guy

I use a bbq maybe once in a week or two .....one has ones waistline to look after

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[Northernraider]

Well, not really....surely fire awareness applies even more in a 'wild' setting. The ban in France, for example, is not specific to campsites, it is a legal requirement in the dry season, everywhere. I well remember a gendarme turning up when I had the charcoal going underneath some sausages on a stony beach on the shore of Lac de Verdon....5 paces away from however many million litres of water were in the lake and nothing within sight which was combustible! He would not be persuaded otherwise and waited while I poured water on the charcoal. The French have smoke spotters on patrol, such is the dire risk of catastrophic fires. The same applies in Spain, I am sure.

There's fire awareness and then there's stupidity ....my charcoal bbq stands up off the ground and I've never started a fire with one yet. Common sense applies

But I've not used it here yet and to be honest as I'm travelling alone there's a good chance I won't....too many places to eat out

 

[scotjimland]

Surely those regulations only apply to "fixed" internal appliances and not an external mobile one!
As for isolating the the gas BBQ point in the event of a fire, one would presume that it would be used whilst being supervised and instead of having to dash inside the motorhome and opening a cupboard door to isolate at the manifold, it would be easier and quicker to do so at the bottle valve within the gas locker, or simply disconnecting the Bullfinch connector.
View attachment 215813

Pete

the gas point is fixed to the van.. so it is part of the gas installation.. the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 apply..

when it comes to gas safety, never presume , if there were a fire unplugging the gas supply connector may not be possible.. if the tube has ruptured and on fire the last thing I want to be doing is holding it and trying to unplug it..

opening a gas locker, which may be locked, then trying to close a bottle could take longer than turning a valve on a manifold.. and as said earlier, it should be isolated when not in use..

and lastly.. insurance.. if it's not done to regulations it will invalidate the insurance.

 

[scotjimland]

2 or 3 times a day ?

it's a multi purpose unit.. can use it to fry, bake, grill, heat , etc.. it's all I cook on when the weather is fine..

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[Cleve]

@scotjimland "I just recently did mine."

Thanks for a very useful post with the pictures. You have actually fitted yours exactly the way I intend to fit mine on my Hymer with the identical manifold/drawer locations. You have as it were carried out a dry run and confirmed my plans.

Thank you again.

By the way, have you fitted a Bullfinch external shower point as well? I have that to do as well but the snow overnight means I am staying inside until it is much, much warmer.

all the best Clive

 

[Chris]

LI did mine myself.

It only took about 15 minutes

 

[scotjimland]

By the way, have you fitted a Bullfinch external shower point as well? I have that to do as well but the snow overnight means I am staying inside until it is much, much warmer.

all the best Clive

yes.. also fitted the Bullfinch shower point, there is a post about a problem with the shower hose moving the mixer tap when in use..

I fitted an on/off CBE switch with LED indicator, for the pump at the door, wired to the tap wires connector block under the sink ..

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[Tykatem]

the gas point is fixed to the van.. so it is part of the gas installation.. the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 apply../

Sorry for being so pedantic and you may well be right, but I cannot find anywhere in those regulations appertaining to privately owned motorhomes which are not for hire.

Pete

 

[Cleve]

@scotjimland

Magic! Thank you.

Clive

 

[scotjimland]

@scotjimland

Magic! Thank you.

Clive

it's crap job working under the sink.. no space and you can't reach and see easily.. I bruised my arm doing it.. but worth the effort.

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[jdk62]

And all that for gas cooked food

Better using the hob inside

There's only one way to bbq and that's with charcoal or lumpwood
Any other way is just wrong


In my humble opinion of course

I use a gas fired Weber.... but I call it alfresco cooking..... I roast, I fry, I grill, I poch, I boil....

 

[soreeyes]

I had a bullfinch gas point fitted a couple of months ago on a my new Moho and it was £250 supplied and fitted . As said it would depend on the amount of work involved to run the pipes and pick up a gas supply .

 

[ianthebuilder]

£15,000.000

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[jdk62]

£15,000.000

Does it come with a free motorhome?

 

[Minxy]

I just recently did mine..

Please fit some brackets to your pipework if you haven't already done so - you may think they are not needed as it's secured in the joints at either end but believe me they CAN come lose as we found with our BBQ fitting (done by the dealer when we bought it) where the pipe came out of the joint and we ended up with a blow torch in the van!

 

[Bognor Saint]

LI did mine myself.

It only took about 15 minutes

Can you give me a quote for not doing mine!

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[Bognor Saint]

We have an external point on our current van. We are picking up our new van (new to us) in March and it does not have an external point. Not the end of the world as we have a Camping Gaz 907 cylinder which will do the job. A bit extra weight but we'll be OK.

 

[scotjimland]

Please fit some brackets to your pipework if you haven't already done so - you may think they are not needed as it's secured in the joints at either end but believe me they CAN come lose as we found with our BBQ fitting (done by the dealer when we bought it) where the pipe came out of the joint and we ended up with a blow torch in the van!

I have 20 + years experience working on oil refineries and offshore production platforms with high pressure instrumentation gas lines , working pressures exceeding 3,000 PSI .. about 207Bar .

If your pipe came out of a fitting it wasn't done by a competent gas fitter.. or if it was he was extremely careless , and coming out had nothing to do with how well it was fixed to the wall.. obviously the olive wasn't fitted properly and correctly torqued up..

sounds to me like it was a bodge job from start to finish .. I hope you had serious words with the dealer !

so no worries , my pipework is adequately secured,

but thanks for your concern..

 

[EuroTrotters]

Well, to be fair. I have done my own and done a better job than La Strada would of done.

That said, I would not want to do the job for anyone else.

You have to consider the risk, liability and lots of other factors. Also, consider that if the bill includes VAT £66.67 is going to HMRC. Leaving £333.33 for the fitter/company. Take off parts, labour, cost of certification, all business cots inc liability insurance etc. They may not be making a lot, Then if they are paying someone to do it, Employers NI, corporation tax etc etc. Being in business is expensive (cost of sales) accountants and so on. Even printing your invoice on paper using a printer is all costs.

I remember a motorhomer complaining about being quoted £250 to change the fluid in his ALDE heating system. He went on to say how he could do it himself for 1/2 etc etc. I pointed out that if he, by accident spilt some on his seats, he would wipe it off as best he could. If a dealer that he was paying £250 for the job did the same??............

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[EuroTrotters]

I just recently did mine..

Materials

1. Bullfinch gas point. JohnsCross Motorhomes £38.94
2. 8mm Copper pipe 4 mt. Jackson’s Leisure Supplies £13.90
3. 8mm Elbow x 1 £1.25
4. Truma gas valve £14.77

Total £68.86

Tools

1. 60mm Holes Saw
2. Pipe Benders
3. Pipe cutters
4. Leak spray

View attachment 215739 View attachment 215740 View attachment 215741 View attachment 215742 View attachment 215743 View attachment 215744

Plus the time taken to obtain research, find and order the parts. Then don't forget to add your labour costs.

 

[peterc10]

understood.. I was thinking on my van where the manifold is very accessible , just in front of the sink, in full view when you pull out the cutlery drawer.. .(you can see it in the photo) .. if it was hidden away then it would be of little good ..

@Northernraider as for suggesting gas could never be the same or as good as charcoal, I was also a non believer.. until I bought a Weber Q ..

the taste comes from the smoke of the burning juices and fat.. not the charcoal.. would never go back to using charcoal again. ..
I use my Weber twice or sometimes three times a day.. couldn't be arsed doing that would lumpwood or a charcoal barbie.

I use a big Weber kettle at home for smoking brisket .. but that's a different kettle of fish..

Another fan of the Weber Q. Have the Q200 at home and carry a Q120 in the motorhome. Brilliant bit of kit which can act as an oven as well. Mind you I now go with the American way of BBQing, Keep it low and slow.

 

[soreeyes]

the gas point is fixed to the van.. so it is part of the gas installation.. the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 apply..

when it comes to gas safety, never presume , if there were a fire unplugging the gas supply connector may not be possible.. if the tube has ruptured and on fire the last thing I want to be doing is holding it and trying to unplug it..

opening a gas locker, which may be locked, then trying to close a bottle could take longer than turning a valve on a manifold.. and as said earlier, it should be isolated when not in use..

and lastly.. insurance.. if it's not done to regulations it will invalidate the insurance.

As said the issue would be with insurance . If you had a problem and it causes damage the first thing an insurance company will ask is who fitted the gas point .

I have spoke to insurance companies on carrying out DIY modifications to gas and electric and the reply I got is it has to be covered by a certificate .

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[scotjimland]

As said the issue would be with insurance . If you had a problem and it causes damage the first thing an insurance company will ask is who fitted the gas point .

I have spoke to insurance companies on carrying out DIY modifications to gas and electric and the reply I got is it has to be covered by a certificate .

Unless the van is used for Hire or Reward there is no requirement in the Gas Safety Regulations 1998 that gas fitting has to be done by a registered gas fitter, nor is there any requirement for a test certificate.. but it should be done according to the regulations. Same apples to electrical work which should be done to according to the 17th Edition Regs ..

If you have an annual habitation check you should be issued with a gas test certificate.

• Gas Systems (Hose age & condition checks / Gas Leak Check / Gas Appliances checked)

The electrical system is also checked..

• Electrical Systems (charging circuit operating correctly / battery condition / Lighting operating / RCD Checked / Electric Step checked / 230v Sockets checked / 12v sockets checked)

but this is not a full inspection and does not include earth bonding impedance and insulation testing which is only an advisory every 3 years and has to be done by a qualified electrician.

 

[scotjimland]

Sorry for being so pedantic and you may well be right, but I cannot find anywhere in those regulations appertaining to privately owned motorhomes which are not for hire.

Pete

@Tykatem

Pete, the regulations apply to all gas installations without exceptions.. including motorhomes, but if the motorhome is not for hire or reward it does not require a gas test certificate.. ..

 

[soreeyes]

Unless the van is used for Hire or Reward there is no requirement in the Gas Safety Regulations 1998 that gas fitting has to be done by a registered gas fitter, nor is there any requirement for a test certificate.. but it should be done according to the regulations. Same apples to electrical work which should be done to according to the 17th Edition Regs ..

If you have an annual habitation check you should be issued with a gas test certificate.

• Gas Systems (Hose age & condition checks / Gas Leak Check / Gas Appliances checked)

The electrical system is also checked..

• Electrical Systems (charging circuit operating correctly / battery condition / Lighting operating / RCD Checked / Electric Step checked / 230v Sockets checked / 12v sockets checked)

but this is not a full inspection and does not include earth bonding impedance and insulation testing which is only an advisory every 3 years and has to be done by a qualified electrician.

I am going by phoning insurance companies and asking .

I would advise anyone wanting to carry out modifications and installations of gas and electric check with their insurance .

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[scotjimland]

I am going by phoning insurance companies and asking .

I would advise anyone wanting to carry out modifications and installations of gas and electric check with their insurance .

If you ask an insurer of course they will say that it has to be done by a Gas Safe registered fitter and requires a test cert, would be stupid to say anything else.. they have to cover their arse.

Provided the work has been done to a professional standard, and in accordance with current regulations, in the event of a claim their investigator would need to prove beyond reasonably doubt that it was your installation that caused the fire .. There is no requirement in the regulations that it must have a test cert unless the vehicle it is for hire or reward.

 

[peterc10]

If you ask an insurer of course they will say that it has to be done by a Gas Safe registered fitter and requires a test cert, would be stupid to say anything else.. they have to cover their arse.

Provided the work has been done to a professional standard, and in accordance with current regulations, in the event of a claim their investigator would need to prove beyond reasonably doubt that it was your installation that caused the fire .. There is no requirement in the regulations that it must have a test cert unless it is for hire or reward.

Generally I agree with what you say. I carry out my own DIY work on my motorhome if I think it is within my capabilities. That includes most electrics and gas.

But just a note of caution. "Beyond reasonable doubt" as a concept is only used in criminal law cases. This would be a civil law case, in which case the burden of proof is based on "the balance of probabilities", i.e. what is more likely than not to have happened.

 

[scotjimland]

Generally I agree with what you say. I carry out my own DIY work on my motorhome if I think it is within my capabilities. That includes most electrics and gas.

But just a note of caution. "Beyond reasonable doubt" as a concept is only used in criminal law cases. This would be a civil law case, in which case the burden of proof is based on "the balance of probabilities", i.e. what is more likely than not to have happened.

. thanks for correcting that point

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