Expat Insurance To Keep UK Registered Vehicle In France Long Term

[HKF]

Hi

Are there any expats here who've used specialist insurance to keep their UK registered vehicle in France long term, please? This is opposed to importing it, due to high import tax. I know it still needs a UK MOT and Road Tax. These policies allow such a vehicle to be in France for a full year, rather than needing to be imported before the 6 month deadline. The vehicle needs to be registered to a UK address but I can't see anything that relates to where the owner and/or registered keeper needs to be resident. I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience of such policies, or any thoughts on possible problems with them. Thank you so much

The link below is just one example of such available insurance.

French Car Insurance for Expats

French Car Insurance for Expats. We provide exceptional cover for expats with over 30 years experience of finding great deals. Get a free callback today.

www.sterling-insurance.co.uk

 

[elamessa]

The problem I can see with that is French law requires that if you are staying in France for longer than six months (in any twelve months), then the vehicle must be formally registered in France and plated with a French registration number.

Some French insurers will give you temporary cover whilst the vehicle is being registered.

 

[HKF]

The problem I can see with that is French law requires that if you are staying in France for longer than six months (in any twelve months), then the vehicle must be formally registered in France and plated with a French registration number.

Some French insurers will give you temporary cover whilst the vehicle is being registered.

So are you suggesting that the policies they're selling are not fit for purpose? This is my concern and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. I can't decide whether this policy overrides French Law because it's correctly insured. It specifically states it's for UK expats living in France. I'm trying to figure out if there's some loophole they're exploiting and, if they are, why haven't the French closed it?!

 

[Bessy765]

This is a very grey area, there is some debate as to. The legality of UK residents who own property in France owning a French registered car for use whilst they are in France. Also if you are resident here you are bound by the laws of that country. I stand to be corrected

 

[HKF]

This is a very grey area, there is some debate as to. The legality of UK residents who own property in France owning a French registered car for use whilst they are in France. Also if you are resident here you are bound by the laws of that country. I stand to be corrected

Yes, I'm completely with you. This is why I'm wondering how these companies can sell these policies. Do they know something we don't and, if so, why is it not explained on their websites? If I bought one of these policies and brought my vehicle over, what happens if the Gendarme play the 6 month trump card and take my vehicle? Will the policy pay out? And for what....theft? It does seem incredibly grey and yet some boast they've been selling these policies for years.

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[AXO66]

Might be two seperate things.

Heres my take on it

1 if you have a vehicle in France over 6 months then you must, it seems, reregister the vehicle etc. to abide by French law.

2 Suspect insurance is not connected . So above insurance, in post above is a policy that says your vehicle must be in France for minimum of 8 months.

So, it might be up to midnight of the six months you are legal for french law and insurance.

after midnight you are not legal under French law as haven’t reregistered the van. But, and this is the question for the insurance company, are you still covered for any insurance claim. Their sales pitch suggests you are.
but it does nothing to wriggle out of the French law re re re registering.

 

[HKF]

Might be two seperate things.

Heres my take on it

1 if you have a vehicle in France over 6 months then you must, it seems, reregister the vehicle etc. to abide by French law.

2 Suspect insurance is not connected . So above insurance, in post above is a policy that says your vehicle must be in France for minimum of 8 months.

So, it might be up to midnight of the six months you are legal for french law and insurance.

after midnight you are not legal under French law as haven’t reregistered the van. But, and this is the question for the insurance company, are you still covered for any insurance claim. Their sales pitch suggests you are.
but it does nothing to wriggle out of the French law re re re registering.

Good explanation. It really seems to be a bit of a minefield, especially when you consider the potential loss of an expensive vehicle and / or a huge fine, plus import tax and duty on top of it!!!! This is why I'm asking, to see if anyone here has any experinece of such a policy before I potentially lose a lot!!

 

[elamessa]

So are you suggesting that the policies they're selling are not fit for purpose? This is my concern and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. I can't decide whether this policy overrides French Law because it's correctly insured. It specifically states it's for UK expats living in France. I'm trying to figure out if there's some loophole they're exploiting and, if they are, why haven't the French closed it?!

It is entirely up to you whether you risk taking a policy with a company in the UK (I don't know of any French companies that would insure a French registered vehicle to be kept in the UK!)

As you live in France then why take the risk?

 

[mikebeaches]

For what it is worth, my understanding is that the 6-month rule for 'foreign registered' vehicles is an EU regulation, not just France.

And as far as I know, the same regulation still applies to foreign registrations in the UK, even post BR**it.

Was something we were conscious of when storing our van in Spain over winter. And I was concerned when it got trapped there and overstayed as a result of the pandemic (we couldn't fly out to collect it). In the event, it came back on a transporter with a note of explanation for the authorities if an issue arose - as far as I know it didn't.

Just to add, I notified the insurers of the situation and they were happy to extend cover for the risk, without any additional premium, even at renewal - in fact it went down!

 

[HKF]

It is entirely up to you whether you risk taking a policy with a company in the UK (I don't know of any French companies that would insure a French registered vehicle to be kept in the UK!)

As you live in France then why take the risk?

I'm not up for taking any risk, which is why I'm asking, and the reason I'm asking is because of the high import tax and duty and difficulty getting a COC. If I risk losing my vehicle under one of these policies, then I definitely won't be buying one. I was asking as I was made aware of these types of policies and wondered if there was a hidden downside to them. It looks like there might be! The insurance company can take my money to insure me but the Gendarme can take my vehicle because I've broken French law. The insurance company will say 'That's you're fault. We insured you correctly. We're not responsible for French law'. It's looking more and more like a non-starter.

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[elamessa]

May be worthwhile ditching the UK vehicle and purchasing one in France. A lot less hassle and you will be legal in France and sleep peacefully.

 

[HKF]

May be worthwhile ditching the UK vehicle and purchasing one in France. A lot less hassle and you will be legal in France and sleep peacefully.

Definintely won't be ditching it. If these policies are no good, I'll keep it in the UK and use it when I'm over there

 

[mikebeaches]

Why not just keep it in France for the six months that's allowed?

We were certainly keen to abide by all the regs.

 

[gus-lopez]

For what it is worth, my understanding is that the 6-month rule for 'foreign registered' vehicles is an EU regulation, not just France.

Yes ,correct. & if you are a resident of the country you don't have 6 months as it is illegal to be driving it.

And as far as I know, the same regulation still applies to foreign registrations in the UK, even post BR**it.

it does.

 

[nicholsong]

Take it out of France for a few days before the 6 months is up - I think the clock starts again, but could be wrong.

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[mikebeaches]

Take it out of France for a few days before the 6 months is up - I think the clock starts again, but could be wrong.

No, I think it's six months in twelve, but equally I could be mistaken.

 

[nicholsong]

No, I think it's six months in twelve, but equally I could be mistaken.

Does anyone check one's travels around Europe to find out how many days one is in each country?

I had my vehicle in Poland for quite a long time, during some of which we were arguing with the government about re-registering RHD. When we finally came to be able to do it we were told that we would be fined for registering late - the fine would be £20, but we have heard nothing for 3 months.

I think some of these rules in some countries are just not enforced, although Spain seems by all accounts to be the exception - how do they track the days?

 

[Ridgeway]

And don’t forget that you can only drive for 12 months on your foreign country driving license, that also needs replacing.

 

[Rapido925M]

We lived on the Costa del Sol for 6 months in 2009, coming home for Easter, by which time we had used our 90 days (+5d extension for £25) AND the policy expired. Took out a new policy with a different company and all was well from an INSURANCE perspective, as we were back within another 90 days.

One evening we were driving on a main route past Fuengirola when we encountered a road block. Vehicles were checked for correct documentation. We were OK BUT Spain was starting to crack down on foreign cars and I understand that it has got tighter. Some friends still take the risk despite living there for 15y and drive on UK plates although I don't think any are SORNed .

However, get involved in an accident, even if its not your fault, and don't look for sympathy from the authorities .

Gordon

 

[mikebeaches]

Does anyone check one's travels around Europe to find out how many days one is in each country?

I had my vehicle in Poland for quite a long time, during some of which we were arguing with the government about re-registering RHD. When we finally came to be able to do it we were told that we would be fined for registering late - the fine would be £20, but we have heard nothing for 3 months.

I think some of these rules in some countries are just not enforced, although Spain seems by all accounts to be the exception - how do they track the days?

I'm not sure the authorities necessarily TRACK vehicles. The onus is on the driver to be able to demonstrate / prove if challenged, when the vehicle arrived in the country.

Last time we drove to Spain for the winter, we went through the tunnel and via France. We made a point of buying some fuel in France just before we crossed the border into Spain, so we'd got a receipt and also evidence on our credit card account. Likewise, the last campsite in France and even a receipt for coffee in a cafe, so we'd got plenty of proof to validate our explanation of arrival date.

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[pappajohn]

You could always ask the insurers for a full and detailed explanation pointing out French and European imigration law.
Better than asking on a forum where you'll get every different answer under the sun

 

[Ingwe]

We’ve kept a UK registered, UK taxed and UK insured car in our second home in France since 2005 (until earlier this year when it was bought by a Dutch resident in France).

We had insurance written by Stuart Collins Insurance.

We have no connection with this business other than having had trouble free insurance with the car we kept in France. They have excellent staff who we found to be most knowledgeable and helpful.

Stuart Collins | European Car Insurance

Stuart Collins & Co Established 1969 has been running a scheme for the past 30 years offering a motor policy for UK registered Cars (Left or Right hand drive) with annual foreign use.

www.stuartcollins.com

Hope you get sorted.

 

[HKF]

Why not just keep it in France for the six months that's allowed?

We were certainly keen to abide by all the regs.

Because I might not want to use that vehicle to travel to the UK and back around the time I'd need to.

 

[HKF]

And don’t forget that you can only drive for 12 months on your foreign country driving license, that also needs replacing.

This is incorrect for us, as we're in France under the WARP agreement. So, we keep our UK licences until they expire, at which time they automatically convert to French licences.

UK and France reach post-Brexit agreement on driving licences

UK licence holders living in France and French licence holders living in the UK whose licence was issued before 1 January 2021 may continue driving on their original valid driving licence.

uk.ambafrance.org

 

[HKF]

We lived on the Costa del Sol for 6 months in 2009, coming home for Easter, by which time we had used our 90 days (+5d extension for £25) AND the policy expired. Took out a new policy with a different company and all was well from an INSURANCE perspective, as we were back within another 90 days.

One evening we were driving on a main route past Fuengirola when we encountered a road block. Vehicles were checked for correct documentation. We were OK BUT Spain was starting to crack down on foreign cars and I understand that it has got tighter. Some friends still take the risk despite living there for 15y and drive on UK plates although I don't think any are SORNed .

However, get involved in an accident, even if its not your fault, and don't look for sympathy from the authorities .

Gordon

Exactly, which is why I'm looking at doing it the right way!

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[HKF]

You could always ask the insurers for a full and detailed explanation pointing out French and European imigration law.
Better than asking on a forum where you'll get every different answer under the sun

Yes, I realise that, but I was interested if anyone else had actual experience of these policies.

 

[Minxy]

Quite apart from France's requirements if you take your UK registered vehicle out of the UK long term (ie more than 12 months) then you have to tell the DVLA that you are exporting it:

Taking a vehicle out of the UK

Taking your car out of the UK - when VAT is not payable on a car you're exporting, procedures, registration and vehicle tax.

www.gov.uk

Reading between the lines if you intend to bring it back to the UK within 12 months then you don't need to do this but you'd still have to be fully legal as if it was being used in the UK (ie taxed, MOTed and insured).

 

[nicholsong]

HKF intends to keep the MH on UK registration with UK address and presumably MOTed.

So why can he not just be touring in Europe?

If stopped just give UK address, as per MH - you cannot be asked for 'Residency Card' as there is no such thing in UK. Don't show any French papers. I doubt whether French authorities are going to investigate further about a UK-registered MH when the driver says he is 'Touring'

That might leave a problem with Insurance Certificate if the one you want in France, but if they are offering it for ex-pats can it not be based on UK address? Anyway address does not appear on a Certificate, does it?

HFK wants to leave the MH in France when he returns to UK by other means: that leaves two possibilities; somebody comes round to check on the vehicle where he lives, unlikely; secondly, he takes off the plates/covers them up, if parked off road.

If he has an MOT, which proves he was in UK on that date then he only is at risk from 6-12 months from that date, and even then says he was touring in that period. As for evidence of being in Germany/Spain have you ever tried to read a till receipt one month after it has been printed?

I know this answer still leaves some loose ends re the insurance policy that HFK was asking about, but it might lead to ideas of some solution to his problem.

Geoff

[Addendum: If there is a partner, put house in one name and MH in another to avoid links.]

 

[HKF]

Quite apart from France's requirements if you take your UK registered vehicle out of the UK long term (ie more than 12 months) then you have to tell the DVLA that you are exporting it:

Taking a vehicle out of the UK

Taking your car out of the UK - when VAT is not payable on a car you're exporting, procedures, registration and vehicle tax.

www.gov.uk

Reading between the lines if you intend to bring it back to the UK within 12 months then you don't need to do this but you'd still have to be fully legal as if it was being used in the UK (ie taxed, MOTed and insured).

This is not true, according to the insurers offering these policies...hence why I'm digging into it. These policies are for UK Expats using their UK registered vehicles (which must also be taxed and MOTd) long term in France, thereby doing away with the need to export them from the UK.

 

[HKF]

HKF intends to keep the MH on UK registration with UK address and presumably MOTed.

So why can he not just be touring in Europe?

If stopped just give UK address, as per MH - you cannot be asked for 'Residency Card' as there is no such thing in UK. Don't show any French papers. I doubt whether French authorities are going to investigate further about a UK-registered MH when the driver says he is 'Touring'

That might leave a problem with Insurance Certificate if the one you want in France, but if they are offering it for ex-pats can it not be based on UK address? Anyway address does not appear on a Certificate, does it?

HFK wants to leave the MH in France when he returns to UK by other means: that leaves two possibilities; somebody comes round to check on the vehicle where he lives, unlikely; secondly, he takes off the plates/covers them up, if parked off road.

If he has an MOT, which proves he was in UK on that date then he only is at risk from 6-12 months from that date, and even then says he was touring in that period. As for evidence of being in Germany/Spain have you ever tried to read a till receipt one month after it has been printed?

I know this answer still leaves some loose ends re the insurance policy that HFK was asking about, but it might lead to ideas of some solution to his problem.

Geoff

[Addendum: If there is a partner, put house in one name and MH in another to avoid links.]

Some good points here, thank you! BTW, I'm a girl It seems like this is a very grey area but, if I can get to the bottom of it, a policy like this would be just what I'm after and make me a happy bunny! I'll be ringing around next week to try and get some answers

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