EU and Ebay

[Busybeeyellam]

A word to the wise. I've sold a 2nd hand traditional bike on Ebay. I did state 'collection in person' , but then amended it to say I would accept someone arranging their own courier, not anticipating an international buyer. The buyer was from Austria, arranged their own courier and I duly boxed the bike, handed over to the courier and thought 'job done'. BUT ! I've been copied into an email from the courier to the buyer informing him that the bike is being held by Customs as they want to know if it is an electric bike or a 'classic bike'. If it is an electric bike it needs a certificate of conformity , if it is a 'classic' bike it comes under 'banned goods' for export from the UK to EU. I've done my bit in good faith; I'm just hoping that this problem doesn't come back to bite me. What do you think ?

 

[pappajohn]

Why on earth would a traditional bike be classed as 'banned goods'
Belgium and Holland are over-run with the bloody things.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Did you take the wheels out, if so it’s parts

 

[Lenny HB]

Sounds a bit iffy I wonder if it's a scam and the buyer trying to get you to refund him.

 

[Busybeeyellam]

It's a folding bike. I took the front wheel and both pedals off to make it a more compact package.

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[TheBig1]

Sadly, it's going to cost you. The buyer will be refunded by ebay and as you didn't book the courier the bike can't be returned to you

 

[pappajohn]

Sadly, it's going to cost you. The buyer will be refunded by ebay and as you didn't book the courier the bike can't be returned to you

Usually, if duty isn't paid the item is returned to sender.
The OP maybe never paid for or arrange the courrier but it was their house it was collected from therefore, the sender.

 

[ChrisL]

I presume you supplied an invoice to the courier for customs purposes, what was the description you used on it?

 

[Busybeeyellam]

My only involvement with the courier was to print off the online transit label , stick it on the box and hand over to the courier. I wasn't asked about the contents, value, invoice, or to fill in any paperwork.

 

[Lenny HB]

As the exporter you are responsible for arranging the correct paperwork.
The best you can hope for is the bike is returned to you but I expect you will have to pay the couriers charges.

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[ChrisL]

I think Lenny is correct, in fact I'm surprised the courier accepted it without an invoice, maybe ebay have a deal with a courier company where they supply the documents. Descriptions are very important as every commodity has a tariff code even ones that are zero rated and can mean the difference between paying duty or not or even being classed as having an export ban.

 

[Insider]

Sounds a bit iffy I wonder if it's a scam and the buyer trying to get you to refund him.

I would check the legitimacy of the email from the courier - look at something called the "message headers" in your email client to establish where the email came from(bit technical unfortunately). Not 100% bullet proof but will catch most scams - if it didn't come from the courier then it's a scam. If it did come from the courier then you're back to square 1. Good luck!

 

[Gellyneck]

This is a classic issue in international trade. If the terms of sale are not fully agreed in advance this leaves dubiety as to who is responsible for what in the transaction.
It has been an issue for 100's of years and as a result as set of terms have been developed to address this, Incoterms.
Simplistically put, it should have been made clear at the outset that the product was being sold under EXW (Incoterms 2020) and this clearly defines that the seller is only responsible for making the product, appropriately packed, available to the buyer. The buyer then being responsible for all cost, processes, etc for export, transport and import.

 

[chaser]

So what happens with all the bikes that go to Europe on the back of motorhomes, how does anyone know they aren't being exported, makes no sense to me, and why couldn't the buyer just have bought one at home.
Can't see anything but a scam but very complicated just for the sake of the value of a normal bike.

 

[Steadycam]

There are large tariffs put on most goods in the EU. Particularly bikes, so to make sure cheaper imports are not made round Thier price hike they have a ban on bikes not officially imported. Type approval is another mechanism for the same end. Thats why they have the rules applied to us as a third country.

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[Emmit]

So what happens with all the bikes that go to Europe on the back of motorhomes, how does anyone know they aren't being exported, makes no sense to me, and why couldn't the buyer just have bought one at home.
Can't see anything but a scam but very complicated just for the sake of the value of a normal bike.

I know nothing on this subject other than when son No2 transit Ed Timor L'est and Indonesia on his Postie bike he had to have an Insurance Carnet to prevent him selling the bike en route.

 

[Spriddler]

The buyer was from Austria, arranged their own courier

Being a cynic, was the buyer in Austria? Was it a genuine courier or the buyer from home in the U.K?

I've been copied into an email from the courier to the buyer informing him that the bike is being held by Customs as they want to know if it is an electric bike or a 'classic bike'.

Or was the copied 'Customs' email sent to you by the buyer been written by himself?
Sounds very odd to me that someone in Austria was so desperate to buy an ordinary bicycle (especially with all the hills over there ).

 

[Busybeeyellam]

The bike was a folding Bike Friday Pocket Llama. A tourist type bike good for the hills, and not many around. Email seems genuine. I'm not sure how things will play out; but I'll know in a day or so.

 

[Brains]

So what happens with all the bikes that go to Europe on the back of motorhomes, how does anyone know they aren't being exported, makes no sense to me, and why couldn't the buyer just have bought one at home.
Can't see anything but a scam but very complicated just for the sake of the value of a normal bike.

I doubt it's a scam.
We are going to see a lot more of this type of issue.

As for bikes on the back of a motorhome, if the UK continues to try to play hardball with the EU then you can expect Carnets to be required for every motorhome.
Not only will you need to list the bikes, but also the electric kettle, the toaster, the TV, the deckchairs, the BBQ, and even the motorhome itself.
The Carnet will then need to be checked and stamped at every single internal EU border crossing.

 

[Ivory55]

I doubt it's a scam.
We are going to see a lot more of this type of issue.

As for bikes on the back of a motorhome, if the UK continues to try to play hardball with the EU then you can expect Carnets to be required for every motorhome.
Not only will you need to list the bikes, but also the electric kettle, the toaster, the TV, the deckchairs, the BBQ, and even the motorhome itself.
The Carnet will then need to be checked and stamped at every single internal EU border crossing.

I guess Ryan air would like that so we all fly

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[Dorset Diver]

This is a classic issue in international trade. If the terms of sale are not fully agreed in advance this leaves dubiety as to who is responsible for what in the transaction.
It has been an issue for 100's of years and as a result as set of terms have been developed to address this, Incoterms.
Simplistically put, it should have been made clear at the outset that the product was being sold under EXW (Incoterms 2020) and this clearly defines that the seller is only responsible for making the product, appropriately packed, available to the buyer. The buyer then being responsible for all cost, processes, etc for export, transport and import.

Spot on Gellyneck. The buyer assumes all responsibility for the item the moment it is handed ("delivered") to the courier.

 

[TheDogMan]

If the customs were aware it was being transported from the UK you have no chance and no doubt you won't see it again, I have been exporting parcels overseas for a long time I stopped it on Jan 1st because I knew what was going to happen

 

[scally]

I doubt it's a scam.
We are going to see a lot more of this type of issue.

As for bikes on the back of a motorhome, if the UK continues to try to play hardball with the EU then you can expect Carnets to be required for every motorhome.
Not only will you need to list the bikes, but also the electric kettle, the toaster, the TV, the deckchairs, the BBQ, and even the motorhome itself.
The Carnet will then need to be checked and stamped at every single internal EU border crossing.

You would say that wouldnt you, not getting into a political argument but its not just us thats playing hardball, thats what negotiation is all about

 

[Brains]

You would say that wouldnt you, not getting into a political argument but its not just us thats playing hardball, thats what negotiation is all about

I couldn't possibly comment
Last time, despite stating a fact rather than an opinion, I got banned for a month.