Engine tuning boxes or Engine re-mapping, should I, shouldn't I? (1 Viewer)

PaulV

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Hi, we have a 2016 Carthago C line, 2.3 150bhp, Comformatic gear box. I'm looking to improve the performance, I'm sure this question has been asked many times before, but I'd really appreciate any thoughts, experiences and advice please. Thanks in anticipation.
 

TerryL

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First off, what's your current mileage? It can take up to 1000 miles for the engine to "loosen up" and develop it's full performance.

A number of threads in the mechanicals sections with plenty of folk for and against. Seems though that if you do go for it re-mapping by a reputable company is preferable to a tuning box, which just fools the ECU. If you consider that the latest engine options offer different power outputs for the same engine size there must be scope.

Been thinking about it myself for a while but would want it done by someone fairly local so that if it didn't work I could have it easily "undone" and there doesn't seem to be anyone near me.

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138go

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Some have said that the extra power makes the clutch slip. As you have the Comformatic gear box you may or may not have problems. FIAT will not be happy if you spoil one of their engines they will probably work out what you have done. You are also going to have to tell your Insurance Company you have been playing with it. All their premiums are based on standard known risks and they will probably want extra. If you wanted more power you should have ordered the BIGGER Engine :rolleyes:
 
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Can't find any good reason for doing it. If you want to go fast,buy a Ferrari or some other car designed for men who need that type of thing. Certainly don't aspire to set a new land speed record in a motorhome.
Just chug along,chug,chug ,chug,there is no rush.
Enjoy.:D:D:D
 

andy63

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I've run a map on my last car and a 08 mk7 transit self build.. worked well on both.. I spent a bit more and got a device that allows me to restore the original manufacturer map or install the remap..
reason for that was that ford were recalling transits for an upgrade to the software and if that had been installed on the remap it would have caused a problem and you would have to pay another fee to have it reinstated... so if it ever has to go back to ford for anything (though less likely now ) I could install the original ford file.
andy
 

ShiftZZ

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Fiat spend millions of € working these things out or you can end up going to some spotty yooff armed with a laptop and some dodgy software with some pseudo techie argument.

I know what I would do.

New clutch Sir, yep card number, expiry date. That woI'll do nicely.

And.
You said your mod would be safe. HELLO are you still there ddrrrrrrrřrrrrr
 
Oct 29, 2016
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The power outputs on offer from the Fiat Ducatto 2300CC Euro 6 diesel engine are as you probably well know, 130,150,&180BHP. However the engines are not the same, as suggested on here, they have different Turbo Chargers, I know that the 180BHP has a larger turbo, different camshafts, & Mapping.
If you were to pay to have it remapped, I dont think it would make such an appreciable difference to performance and more importantly economy, before the engine has been properly run in.
EG: Our Audi Q3 4x4 took 15K miles to run in, how do I know?, we didn't notice that much by way of performance just a bit maybe as we dont race it, but the MPG improved over short and long runs.
I think its correct that you would invalidate your Fiat warranty, and you would need to be legal tell your insurance company, although many would in the real world I guess.
You have a lovely van, we are still waiting for ours, hope you enjoy it and that we meet up at a " Gathering"
Happy Chugging
Les & Tina

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Sep 26, 2013
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Had it done on a van in 2008 but not really worth it and never bothered after that, cheaper to change down a gear when going uphill.
 
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42208

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Seems a reasonable question, would love to hear more from someone who has actually had it done (Andy 63 exception) as thinking of doing the same
 

MC 55 FUN

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Seems a reasonable question, would love to hear more from someone who has actually had it done (Andy 63 exception) as thinking of doing the same

I had a Superchips Bluefin removable remap done on my old Mondeo ST TDCi which had the Puma engine as fitted to many Moho's, with no issues after 40,000 miles.

Wouldn't have a tuning box as all they do is fool the e.c.u. to inject more fuel without altering any of the other important parameters.

Present Moho has 150 b.h.p. & has all the power we could want, so no need for any remap.

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Blue Knight

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Hi, we have a 2016 Carthago C line, 2.3 150bhp, Comformatic gear box. I'm looking to improve the performance, I'm sure this question has been asked many times before, but I'd really appreciate any thoughts, experiences and advice please. Thanks in anticipation.

Hi Paul,

I've been involved in this type of thing for many years now and the secret to a 'tuning success' is in finding a mapping specialist who truely understands (a) the concepts of engine operations and (b) how he establishes the safe margins of all component parts used in the creation of his bespoke map.

I'm not an advocate of adding standard maps to a vehicles brain because every single Ducato engine will be different to the next one albeit by very small tolerances.

If you are prepared to find a specialist mapper with a top reputation then go for it as you should be able to create a stronger torque curve in the lower RPM range.

All the best,

Andrew

EDIT: I know very little about the comformatic set-up but I've heard that it's a bit like marmite - some people love it and the rest just hate the thing. IMO there's no point in tuning an engine if the comformatic can't cope with the extra capability.
 
Feb 21, 2016
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Hi Paul,

I've been involved in this type of thing for many years now and the secret to a 'tuning success' is in finding a mapping specialist who truely understands (a) the concepts of engine operations and (b) how he establishes the safe margins of all component parts used in the creation of his bespoke map.

I'm not an advocate of adding standard maps to a vehicles brain because every single Ducato engine will be different to the next one albeit by very small tolerances.

If you are prepared to find a specialist mapper with a top reputation then go for it as you should be able to create a stronger torque curve in the lower RPM range.

All the best,

Andrew

EDIT: I know very little about the comformatic set-up but I've heard that it's a bit like marmite - some people love it and the rest just hate the thing. IMO there's no point in tuning an engine if the comformatic can't cope with the extra capability.
OK,if you must,but don't forget to tell your insurance company. They'll just love it! It is a modification,which has to be declared. If you do not do so you are not insured.
 

BillandHelen

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Paul, we have an IH panel van conversion with 180bhp engine and comfortmatic gearbox on a 4200kg chassis. Whilst not a "chipped", I think you would notice and enjoy the additional torque and power, it gives a much more relaxed drive, great on hills etc, we are currently getting 26/27 mpg but the engine is new and still tight, hoping for nearer 30 when it loosens up.
We previously had the 3litre, this one is a bit quieter and smoother.

Bill
 

Blue Knight

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Chaps,

There are a whole load of myths about tuning and modifying vehicles and those who criticise it are often the folk who don't quite understand the concept(s) in the first instance.

I await to be corrected but I would be very surprised if any of the converters go to the trouble of applying a bespoke map to any of their vehicle ECUs to help give the vehicle a better 'set-up' for MoHo-specific conditions.

Most Fiat Ducatos will be used for anything from plasterers gear to courier services to glazing specialists but the point I make is that most Fiat Ducatos will not run at the upper limit of their MTPLM for the duration of their entire life. We also have the motorhomers (not Funsters, I'm sure) who run @ 10-20% over the vans limits so that makes things even worse for the guts of the base vehicle.

A tuning remap does not necessarily have to be aimed at increasing your 0-100mph times (one heck of a MoHo if it did:D2), but instead it could be used to get more response at lower RPM levels while potentially creating better fuel economy figures to boot.

Most of the vans which I've driven need their needles revved off the dash before they achieve some decent momentum but; what if you were to remap your ECU to bring that power/grunt early on? It would certainly make for a smoother and potentially happier driving experience, while allowing the engine components (and auxiliary systems) to stay within their normal operating tolerances.

The concept of tuning is fantastic but only if it's done by people who know their stuff, otherwise, leave it as is.

That said, you guys don't want to be like me where one day you wake up and realise that 95% of the vehicle in the garage is non-standard.

P.S. If anyone knows of a tuner/mapper who can help stop my car wheel spinning in 5th gear then do drop me a line :cool:

All the best,

Andrew
 
Last edited:
Oct 12, 2009
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We had ours re-mapped, not a box, rightly or wrongly - I am not judging.

The reason was that on our Ducato 2.8Jtd (2003) the 5th gear ratio is very high and at the sort of cruising speeds I was using with our very slab-fronted Arto I was having to change down on even moderate hills.

I could have gone the route of replacing the 5th gear with a lower ratio, but it was great for cruising on the flat.

I explained the problem and what I wanted to the guy who did it and also specified that I did not want maximum torque, which might put strain on the drive-train, just sufficient to overcome the problem.

Since I had it done I have been very pleased with the results. Firstly, she feels much more comfotably 'in the groove' in 5th at an actual(not indicated) 60-65mph @ 2100-2200 rpm) and I can maintain 5th up many hills that would have had me changing down and she feels comfortable shooting up them.

I am careful not to let the revs drop and to not rely on extra torque to maintain speed, so if this is happening I of course change down. It is easy to feel when this is right. I also do not change up into 5th on the flat until 50+mph, maybe 40+ on a downhill stretch.

Just on another point on the 5th gear, maybe more important on the external 5th on pre-2002(?), but even on our internal 5th, to ensure 'splash' lubrication to that gear, I do not use it until the engine is up to temp, when I estimate the oil is sufficiently warm to lubricate that gear properly.

I do believe one needs re-mapping done by an experienced specialist.

My remap was done by Alex at Boosters, who spends all his time doing re-mapping and as far as I can judge knows his stuff with different engines, and took on board my requirements. He will also willingly re-map if someone is not happy - or they gave him the wrong brief(more likely). He is mobile and came from Norfolk to do the job at Peterborough Services.

It was not in my brief but my consumption is down by 1-2 mpg, but I think that is purely down to maintaining 5th gear, as it is not so different in areas where 5th is never used.

I shall await comments - as there always are on this subject.

Geoff

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Dec 24, 2014
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When I go Funstering abroad folk ask "How long will it take you to get to France/Spain/Germany/Switzerland.....?".

My response is: 'The longer the better'.

I'm retired :D
 

Blue Knight

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When I go Funstering abroad folk ask "How long will it take you to get to France/Spain/Germany/Switzerland.....?".

My response is: 'The longer the better'.

I'm retired :D

"In that case you need to opt for the 'slow & smooth' map".

I've just read that back to myself and it sounds rude to me:rolleyes:
 

PhilG

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We put a piggy back ECU on our old 2.8JTD back in 2005, was 5 secs faster 0-60 and 4 mpg better on fuel, had better midrange and didn't fall on it arse going uphill like it did previously. It was well worth the £300 it cost back then, and if I could find the same unit now I would fit it in an instant.

Its not about going faster , its about going the same speed for less effort , IMO, we found we didn't need to rag it up hills as it would pull the taller gear.

As for clutches, I know people who kill them for fun, irrespective of what vehicle they are in , we aren't talking about another 50bhp here , so its hardly going to notice.

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I had my euro 4 3 litre remapped from 160 to 197hp well worth the money.
However I would not think of remapping a Euro 6 engine.
 

Dognewf

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i had my 05 plate ducato mapped from 85 hp to 110. just makes driving easier.
 

TerryL

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Interested to see that @dave newell lvs has fitted a tuning box to "The Duchess" according to his article in Practical Motorhome. I'm sure he'll let us have his comments in due course.
 

dave newell

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Yes Terry, too early to give any accurate results as yet but first impressions are that low and mid range response has improved, cruising fuel consumption appears to have improved but I've only done a couple of hundred miles since I fitted it so far too early to say anything more.

D.

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Lenny HB

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First off, what's your current mileage? It can take up to 1000 miles for the engine to "loosen up" and develop it's full performance.
Fiat do not consider the engine to be run in until its done 15,000 miles.

Our last van was a 2.3, 150 Euro 5+ with Comformatic, running weight around 3700kg a bit sluggish for the first 1000 miles then performance was fine. The Comformatic box improved after 12000 miles, not surprising as Fiat set the software up for a fully run in engine.

Our current van is 2.3 150 Euro 6 Comformatic running around 3950 kg. The engine on this one seems a lot tighter at first I thought with the Maxi chassis I should have gone for the 180 but it is now starting to loosen up a bit. At first it struggled up hill and the box was not changing down soon enough. After about 1000-1500 miles it improved but still not brilliant, now its coming up for 3000 miles starting to get the performance I expected and still improving.

I don't think chipping modern engines is a good idea at least not until they are fully run in and out of warranty.
If you really think you want to chip it wait until its done at least 15000 miles, you may find by then you are happy with the performance.
 

TerryL

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First off, what's your current mileage? It can take up to 1000 miles for the engine to "loosen up" and develop it's full performance.

Actually I meant to post 10,000 miles - it took that before we started to see improvements in fuel consumption.
(Must re-read posts before I press reply - think keyboard is past it, getting a lot of typos!:oops:)
 
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The power outputs on offer from the Fiat Ducatto 2300CC Euro 6 diesel engine are as you probably well know, 130,150,&180BHP. However the engines are not the same, as suggested on here, they have different Turbo Chargers, I know that the 180BHP has a larger turbo, different camshafts, & Mapping.

Do you know if they all share the same clutch unit ?

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