Engine remapping (1 Viewer)

[haganap]

What I really love about this thread is this.

Dave, Shiftzz, has an expert who's reason for not reccomendimg remapping was the difference inBhp gain made it not worth it.
Then others say the increased engine stresses make it not worth it,

We can't have it both ways funsters there's either too much of a gain and therefore to many stressors on the engine components
Or
No not worth doing it because the gain is not worth it therefore, there would be no level of additional strain put on the engine,
Experts ?

As for clutches going? I know many a clutch that has gone on many a vechile, most of those were on unmapped vans.

 

[Forestboy]

I'm amazed at some of the prices being quoted for a clutch on here. are they actual prices or opinion.

Heres an actual price I paid for a new clutch fitted in a 2.8 jtd motorhome within the last 12 months and it was genuine Fiat parts as only £25 difference between genuine and non genuine.

Total cost parts and labour £500.00

Job was completed in about 5 hours in and out same day.
Not a Fiat garage I must add a local truck and bus maintanence company who looked after my fleet when I had my own trucks.

 

[bungy]

remap?...pfft just get a van with a 3.0l lump in it

27mpg average and 0-60 in 6.68 seconds (maybe a little more but hey - whats a few seconds between friends)

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[ShiftZZ]

I dont think its as black and white as that.

From what I gather (numbers may be wrong). Lets say that ypou have a van with a current BHP of 128, so if the owner decides to remap to say 140 BHP then there will be only limited change, if the van was remapped to say 200 BHP, you are talking of a big leap and that when the issues may arise, I am not an expert, but an increase of 12BHP is not substantial and may not be noticed, unless you compare like with like, same day, same weight, same resistance etc . A 64% increase maybe soemthing that would be outside the tollerance of teh components, from what I have read there may be a need to add a better intercooler, whatever that is.

Anyhow, I cant add any more, not a techie, never will be... So you pay your money and you take your chances.

 

[Forestboy]

What I really love about this thread is this.

Dave, Shiftzz, has an expert who's reason for not reccomendimg remapping was the difference inBhp gain made it not worth it.
Then others say the increased engine stresses make it not worth it,

We can't have it both ways funsters there's either too much of a gain and therefore to many stressors on the engine components
Or
No not worth doing it because the gain is not worth it therefore, there would be no level of additional strain put on the engine,
Experts ?

As for clutches going? I know many a clutch that has gone on many a vechile, most of those were on unmapped vans.

Correct my clutch was knackered before I had it remapped

 

[Wildman]

there are many reasons for having a remap, the most common it seems is to improve drivability, if people then drive like a maniac at faster than normal speeds two things will happen, your fuel consumption willl go up and your clutches will wear out. Nothing whatsoever directly connected to your remap as far as I can see its a matter of driving style and skill. Haganap is a ski meister so needs a van that will haul heavy loads up mountains, he is also loaded so not worried about fuel cost. His Choice and it what suits him, people remapping specifically to increase MPG may end up disappointed with performance. Manufacturers map with the happy medium that they think will suit everyone. They have no reason to do anything else. Performance or fuel consumption its either one or the other but not both you cannot get something for nothing. an interesting thread so what next, how about air ride suspension

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[Forestboy]

there are many reasons for having a remap, the most common it seems is to improve drivability, if people then drive like a maniac at faster than normal speeds two things will happen, your fuel consumption willl go up and your clutches will wear out. Nothing whatsoever directly connected to your remap as far as I can see its a matter of driving style and skill. Haganap is a ski meister so needs a van that will haul heavy loads up mountains, he is also loaded so not worried about fuel cost. His Choice and it what suits him, people remapping specifically to increase MPG may end up disappointed with performance. Manufacturers map with the happy medium that they think will suit everyone. They have no reason to do anything else. Performance or fuel consumption its either one or the other but not both you cannot get something for nothing. an interesting thread so what next, how about air ride suspension

Quite right
I had mine remapped because I'm running fully loaded, nearly 5ton, all the time so the extra power is a godsend and I never expected to get better mpg.
Like Haggers I also spend time in the Alps and Pyrenees skiing in winter and touring with the m/bike on board in summer. Unlike Haggers I'm not loaded

 

[haganap]

You are quite right roger, if it was about mpg and people were remapping for that, they may be disappointed, although my current van did see significant gain.

My remaps were about general performance of the van including towing a car and getting up mountains.
My first 2-0 jtd I thought was that underpowered it was dangerous driving it on motorways.

Luckily it was remapped and I could then drive it like a maniac, especially around camp sites, some of which I could get up to 60mph on before I ran out of road or bloody kids in the play park got in the way forcing me to brake hard.

Bungy has tested his 3L van around the council estate I live. He claims 6.68 seconds and he's probably right for nought to 60 , but on a recent race around his especially prepared manor estate I managed to catch him between 40-70 mph although my van is bigger than his and was fully loaded with me kids and there mates.
I think I could of gone a little quicker due to the slick camping car tyres on my van.
Following the remap, I've gone for the big bore exhaust kit, dump valve. Rory is fitting that at Chester.
I'm looking at lowering it after and then fitting air rides that work independently so it can dance.
If I've got any cash left I'm having myself some of those neon lights underneath, I've already got some of those flashing dust caps from Jim the ringleader. Although it took the bloody things months to work, I put them on all four wheels and one by one they flashed although one of the tyres is bit flat looking init.

Have you done ya tinted windows on your van yet Bungy?

 

[ShiftZZ]

You are quite right roger, if it was about mpg and people were remapping for that, they may be disappointed, although my current van did see significant gain.

My remaps were about general performance of the van including towing a car and getting up mountains.
My first 2-0 jtd I thought was that underpowered it was dangerous driving it on motorways.

Luckily it was remapped and I could then drive it like a maniac, especially around camp sites, some of which I could get up to 60mph on before I ran out of road or bloody kids in the play park got in the way forcing me to brake hard.

Bungy has tested his 3L van around the council estate I live. He claims 6.68 seconds and he's probably right for nought to 60 , but on a recent race around his especially prepared manor estate I managed to catch him between 40-70 mph although my van is bigger than his and was fully loaded with me kids and there mates.
I think I could of gone a little quicker due to the slick camping car tyres on my van.
Following the remap, I've gone for the big bore exhaust kit, dump valve. Rory is fitting that at Chester.
I'm looking at lowering it after and then fitting air rides that work independently so it can dance.
If I've got any cash left I'm having myself some of those neon lights underneath, I've already got some of those flashing dust caps from Jim the ringleader. Although it took the bloody things months to work, I put them on all four wheels and one by one they flashed although one of the tyres is bit flat looking init.



Have you done ya tinted windows on your van yet Bungy?

Chav...

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[laneside]

Just to add a bit more to the unknown for the un-initiated I have just got my Fiat handbook out.

The 130HP and the 148HP engines ie the 130multijet and the 150 multijet have exactly the same bore and stroke and the same 16.2:1 compression ratio.

The 130 achieves 320Nm per 1800 revs and the 150 achieves 350Nm at 1500 revs.

Assuming they have the same injectors and injector pump ( which I do not know) then I can only assume that Fiat achieve this by a different ECU set up.

Can anyone in the know confirm this.

Given the choice I would prefer 350Nm at 1500 RPM and promise to stay at 60 MPH on the motorway and not to burn you off at the traffic lights.

I see fuel saving but if the saving offsets the re-mapping charge depends on how long one keeps the vehicle.

I will certainly talk to WOW or someone similar in due course.

As for burning clutches out now that is almost certainly down to bad driving or huge huge mileage or possibly crap chinese friction plates which may be being used.

 

[bungy]

You are quite right roger, if it was about mpg and people were remapping for that, they may be disappointed, although my current van did see significant gain.

My remaps were about general performance of the van including towing a car and getting up mountains.
My first 2-0 jtd I thought was that underpowered it was dangerous driving it on motorways.

Luckily it was remapped and I could then drive it like a maniac, especially around camp sites, some of which I could get up to 60mph on before I ran out of road or bloody kids in the play park got in the way forcing me to brake hard.

Bungy has tested his 3L van around the council estate I live. He claims 6.68 seconds and he's probably right for nought to 60 , but on a recent race around his especially prepared manor estate I managed to catch him between 40-70 mph although my van is bigger than his and was fully loaded with me kids and there mates.
I think I could of gone a little quicker due to the slick camping car tyres on my van.
Following the remap, I've gone for the big bore exhaust kit, dump valve. Rory is fitting that at Chester.
I'm looking at lowering it after and then fitting air rides that work independently so it can dance.
If I've got any cash left I'm having myself some of those neon lights underneath, I've already got some of those flashing dust caps from Jim the ringleader. Although it took the bloody things months to work, I put them on all four wheels and one by one they flashed although one of the tyres is bit flat looking init.

[HI]Have you done ya tinted windows on your van yet Bungy[/HI]?

half way through just got to nick some more whiteboard pens from work to colour the back ones in...wish id just used grate polish now


and as for catching me between 40-70 lets be fair that wasnt your van remap now was it - that was the 500BDP of tara pulling you! AND i was pullin' wheelies...which your van cant:Tongue1:

 

[JanetJ]

Dear Funsters

I was overwhelmed by the response to my post. Very good advice so much so that I have decided not to remap. The reason I wanted to do it in the first place was for mpg only as my previous van was better and it is difficult to go down when it comes to economy. However the many opinions relating to increased maintenance has decided for me. Thank you for all your help.

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[buttons]

I hear I hear

I witness I witness


The op asked for good and bad experiences not hearsay,

That's the only point I'm making.

[HI]You will be telling me next that all swift vans are rubbish[/HI]

Absolutely not, I have owned two Swifts and the fact that they were both rubbish makes no guarantee that all Swifts are rubbish. I have it on good authority that some are even without reverse judder.

 

[haganap]

Dear Funsters

I was overwhelmed by the response to my post. Very good advice so much so that I have decided not to remap. The reason I wanted to do it in the first place was for mpg only as my previous van was better and it is difficult to go down when it comes to economy. However the many opinions relating to increased maintenance has decided for me. Thank you for all your help.

Admit it,

you just can't handle the speed increase and the thought of having to race me and bungy over a quater of a mile.

 

[bungy]

ooooo...challenges eh:Cool:

sounds like an idea for a meet:thumb:

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[Steve and Denise]

Paul, I did say that there would be no benefit in the MPG, performance is another issue, yes you can increase the BHP, but the componants that you van has may not have been designed to perform at those increased stresses.
So you may well run the risk of clutch damage etc.
Yes I Googled it and there no end of postings about issues with the clutch after re-mapping, that may or may not be linked, but on a new van you may certainly make the guarentee invalid.

My expert is an expert , and Rick Motorroaming will back that up, they are small and very specialised, their Service Manager has over twenty five years experience working with the likes of Porsche and Ferrari, road and race.
They have all the latest technology and diagnostics including Autologic Diagnostic System. It enables them to carry out "Full Dealer Level" Diagnostics, Coding, Programming and Tuning to a vast range of vehicles.

Experts they are.. :thumb:

I have had three fiat campers/motor homes all 3.0 multi jets first was a 150BHP second was a 160BHP third is a 180BHP all with the same running gear,
and guess what no problems with clutches drive shafts or wheels coming adrift.

I would therefore assume that Fiat seem to know what they are doing?

If you want more power rule of thumb is to get a bigger engine

Performance and economy are not words that are used in the same sentence !

As for Ferrari there cars do well to get into double figures when driven for fun!

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Thinking of getting garret t5turbo fitted autotrail stylie..
Right Hagnap and Bungay Santapod meet !!!

 

[mdixon]

Question flashkim

Totaly agree....my van is mapped,its a Transit 2.2 2008 in a C class weight max 3.5 ton, anyone wants to compare their transit with mine is welcome anytime ,happy days Kim

I too have a 2008 Ford Transit 2.2 140BHP Model. Can you tell me the MPG after remap to before. Is it worth me doing at WOW?

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[flashkim]

I too have a 2008 Ford Transit 2.2 140BHP Model. Can you tell me the MPG after remap to before. Is it worth me doing at WOW?

Hi when i drove the van home , not hanging about 65/70 6Th gear A1 road cruise on. 160miles I got according to the fuel computer ....27 mpg Bearing in mind the engine has only done a total of 5k in 4 years, so might give better as it beds in and loosens up? (here's praying)

I was quite surprised at the fact even on A1 hilly sections the 140 BHP engine plodded along without having to change down.
Now it is 172BHP and torque increased from 350 nm to 410 nm
Going to the rally this weekend that's a run of 200 miles ,I am going to top up fuel and refill on return.
I will be in a position to sing the changes or mourn them....will let you know next Monday PM me if you cannot find the post Kim :thumb:

 

[beerdrinker1]

Chav...

Looks like a Polar caravan, and the one next to it under all the Burberry lookalike trim, had one of these years ago ( without the trim !!!! ), a bloody good Swedish van, light years ahead of UK construction,
Their ad showed a guy standing on the roof, another ad showed a Volvo tow car on the roof of the van !, the very best of insulation, being Swedish, with built in central heating with tiny radiators, imported by a firm in Chesterfield, bought new ( my first new van ) by me from Goodalls Caravans in Huddersfield for ski-ing in this country ( Scotland ) .... ahhhh the memories !
Ken :thumb:

 

[beerdrinker1]

Hi when i drove the van home , not hanging about 65/70 6Th gear A1 road cruise on. 160miles I got according to the fuel computer ....27 mpg Bearing in mind the engine has only done a total of 5k in 4 years, so might give better as it beds in and loosens up? (here's praying)

I was quite surprised at the fact even on A1 hilly sections the 140 BHP engine plodded along without having to change down.
Now it is 172BHP and torque increased from 350 nm to 410 nm
Going to the rally this weekend that's a run of 200 miles ,I am going to top up fuel and refill on return.
I will be in a position to sing the changes or mourn them....will let you know next Monday PM me if you cannot find the post Kim

Thanks for all your posts on this Kim, will look forward to reading the recorded MPG, on return from your outing,
Ken :thumb:

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[darklord]

Just a reminder and me stating the obvious. Regular servicing will stop your fuel consumption creeping up and help to stave off breakdowns. last night I sericed two Iveco vans, they were done 12 weeks ago, the air filters were filthy, and the fuel filters certainly needed changing. Good quality parts are essential, rubbish fuel flters are a timebomb. If you can imagine your MH fuel supply running through a "mug", then think of how dirty a tea/coffee cup gets and the dregs that get stuck in there, then think of never washing it...thats what a dirty fue filter gets like, and so it lets less and less fuel through.

Much the same with air filters, your engine needs air to run, it needs a lot of it, and it needs to be cool. It would be ideal to not have a filter, allowing a free flow of air, but the dirt particles in the air and around the MH from the road etc, would kill the engine, so a filter is needed. Cheap ones are just a mass of fibre designed to fit a hole in the housing, good ones allow filtered air to reach the engine as unobstructed as possible.

Oil is a bleddy nuiscance, once you have found the correct type (synthetic/semi synthetic/mineral etc etc) youve then to find it at the right price, but dont buy unbranded rubbish, could be very expensive.

Unless you are confident and mechanically adept, i,d leave brakes well alone apart from keeping an eyes on them, especially the fluid, a gradual lowering of the fluid level could show that the pads/shoes are wearing down and should be checked. Tyre pressures are very important in keeping your rolling resistance down and so keeping fuel consumption.

There are loads of other tips, and there are some modifications like a K&N air filter, that save money and help fuel consumption, and ive used Forte injector treatment for years. i chuck a bottle in the tank when about to do a long trip, probably once a year, it just helps to keep the injectors clean.:thumb:

 

[flashkim]

Hi when i drove the van home , not hanging about 65/70 6Th gear A1 road cruise on. 160miles I got according to the fuel computer ....27 mpg Bearing in mind the engine has only done a total of 5k in 4 years, so might give better as it beds in and loosens up? (here's praying)

I was quite surprised at the fact even on A1 hilly sections the 140 BHP engine plodded along without having to change down.
Now it is 172BHP and torque increased from 350 nm to 410 nm
Going to the rally this weekend that's a run of 200 miles ,I am going to top up fuel and refill on return.
I will be in a position to sing the changes or mourn them....will let you know next Monday PM me if you cannot find the post Kim :thumb:

Hi all ,have just completed first 500 miles of driving with the Elite remap.
Back now from a weekend in the new forest and then a peppa pig world trip...no, I stayed in the van all day (Figuring out the Webasto diesel heater, why once I got it started did it keep stopping ?) whilst my wife took 2 of our grandchildren around christmas piggy land.

These are my Initial thoughts...The map changes... pull aways and town type driving..I have to be conscious of the power and make allowances like short shifting and being light on the go peddle. The van wants to be a car ,off the line and town type motoring have to be watched as you can find yourself getting caught up with the dashing about all the cars are doing ...the van will do this but with the consequence of high consumption.
On return from the Essex rally , I found that I had achieved 23 MPG this was a wake up call to me, and all the cruise at 70 and trying to drive as a car had shown in consumption big time .
This last trip ,.... care on not racing with the traffic and a 60MPH cruise on the motorway..occasional 70ish to pass Idiots driving slower than this in second lane,allowed for, produced 28.3mpg for overall 200+ mile trip.
The torque is there and as long I drive to allow for it ,the cruise control and the need for gear changes minimised, is worth the change. There was little difference to pre- mapping consumption.... well, the trip was showing 29.7 mpg for a while but town and overtaking driving took its toll. Still more patience(and Diazepam) might give a little more MPG , :Mellow: Kim

 

[flashkim]

Bump

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[Southampton]

This is an interesting thread. I had a remap (Quantum) on my previous van and did notice an improvement on MPG from approx 22-23 to 26-27, this was with a 3.0 ltr manual. I didn't need the grunt just the economy. I now have a new van, again a 3.0ltr but the 180 Auto (Fiat). The question to the engine experts is....the engine has done less than 200miles at present, will a remap improve the MPG now or does the engine have to 'be run in a bit' before a remap. I guess the MPG will improve once the engine is run in a bit.

I am going up to the Lakes this week, so a 640 mile round trip will give me a good idea what I am getting on it. I am expecting about 22-23 MPG driving at about 60 ish. Any better than this and I will be very happy.

 

[flashkim]

This is an interesting thread. I had a remap (Quantum) on my previous van and did notice an improvement on MPG from approx 22-23 to 26-27, this was with a 3.0 ltr manual. I didn't need the grunt just the economy. I now have a new van, again a 3.0ltr but the 180 Auto (Fiat). The question to the engine experts is....the engine has done less than 200miles at present, will a remap improve the MPG now or does the engine have to 'be run in a bit' before a remap. I guess the MPG will improve once the engine is run in a bit.

I am going up to the Lakes this week, so a 640 mile round trip will give me a good idea what I am getting on it. I am expecting about 22-23 MPG driving at about 60 ish. Any better than this and I will be very happy.

I think that on the economy side modern engines are pretty well optimised for economy, and as you say its how you drive them. If mine was an even earler engine I would now have little hesitation in recommending a remap to save on fuel. The remap guy said from his print out, I was not to expect any real difference to economy just ease of driving changes. He was right, But I am OK with the changes, if anything it is teaching me to be much more gentle in my driving style..which is a change for me . Hope you have great time on your trip,really envious of your ride ..one day perhaps......Kim

 

[mdixon]

I think that on the economy side modern engines are pretty well optimised for economy, and as you say its how you drive them. If mine was an even earler engine I would now have little hesitation in recommending a remap to save on fuel. The remap guy said from his print out, I was not to expect any real difference to economy just ease of driving changes. He was right, But I am OK with the changes, if anything it is teaching me to be much more gentle in my driving style..which is a change for me . Hope you have great time on your trip,really envious of your ride ..one day perhaps......Kim

Thanks flashkim

Really useful practical information. So the conclusion is - forget fuel consumption, if you want the power and responsiveness then its a good accessory?

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[flashkim]

Thanks flashkim

Really useful practical information. So the conclusion is - forget fuel consumption, if you want the power and responsiveness then its a good accessory?

Yes, as long as you have control of your right boot...same ish fuel consumption, but with the advantage of being able to out of sticky road situations quickly... I am now tucking her in for christmas,silver screen on and a thermostat heater ...will give me somewhere to hide from the family come the holidays have a good time Kim :thumb: