Engine Management Light ON. Loss of power. (1 Viewer)

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Mar 9, 2019
300
360
Scotland
Funster No
58,985
MH
AutoTrail Dakota ’14
Exp
Newbie
Hi all
What a day. Ferry delayed by 3.5 hours this morning. After sitting quietly in my lane started the engine and got the Orange EML light on, foot off and the revs dropped to around 9k but when putting the throttle down nothing happened.
Turned off, started again and kept the revs up and managed to get onto the ferry.

Went to get off the ferry and the same scenario. Stalled/cut out and needed to restart twice to get off so just kept my foot down and let the engine rev. Once it had warmed up it managed to keep going but still the EML was on. Pulled in at Cite Europe to check under the bonnet, nothing obvious there and as the engine was warm it started and ran normally With the EML still on.

Set off heading South and the first hill saw me dropping to 4th gear but we managed to keep going but down too 3rd gear on some of the hills but running quite well on the flat at 80-100kph. No doubt fuel consumption is higher due to changing driving style As well.

Arrived at our first planned aire, parked up and tuned off. First beer now in hand so…

Forum research is pointing towards one of 3 things.
1. Fuel starvation - possibly blocked fuel filter. But why would that get better when warmed up.
2. Hole in a breather or vacuum pipe ?
3. EGR faulty/stiff. Again, why would that get better when warm.

As the van is pretty well used, good run in January then standing until beginning of March. Run 200 miles on Tuesday, 150miles Thursday I don’t see if being DPF type faults. The getting better when warm seems to rule out a sensor fault.

Is there anything I have missed?

No point calling breakdown out on a Friday night so will probably sit tight until Monday when garages are open and then start the proceas.

Any thoughts or things I can check?

BTW. AutoTrail 2014 Fiat Ducato 2.3 Engine.
 
OP
OP
iain26
Mar 9, 2019
300
360
Scotland
Funster No
58,985
MH
AutoTrail Dakota ’14
Exp
Newbie
Just managed to get a Fault Code. P0697.
This is defined as ”Fault with sensor voltage circuit C” which makes no sense to me.
 
Sep 3, 2012
7,784
26,719
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8+ years
Is this any use

Best to check out on line but if you can't sort it in the morning you need to contact your breakdown service.

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Emmit

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 14, 2009
8,239
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Courtesy of; https://www.obd-codes.com/p0697


P0697 Sensor Reference Voltage C Circuit Open OBD-II Trouble Code Technical Description Article by Stephen Darby ASE Certified Technician Sensor Reference Voltage "C" Circuit Open What does that mean?

This diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is a generic powertrain code, which means that it applies to OBD-II equipped vehicles. Although generic, the specific repair steps may vary depending on make/model. When I find a stored P0697 code, it means that the powertrain control module (PCM) has detected an open circuit for a particular sensor; designated in this case as "C". When diagnosing an OBD-II code, the term open could be substituted for absent. The sensor in question is typically associated with the automatic transmission, transfer case, or one of the differentials. This code will almost always be accompanied by a more specific sensor code. The P0697 adds that the circuit is open. Consult a reliable vehicle information source (All Data DIY is a great choice) to determine the sensor location (and function) as it pertains to the vehicle in question. If the P0697 is stored alone, suspect that a PCM programming error has occurred. Obviously, you will need to diagnose and repair any other sensor codes prior to diagnosing and repairing the P0697 - but keep the open "C" circuit in mind. Reference voltage (typically five-volts) is applied to the sensor in question via a switched (energized with the key on) circuit. There should also be a ground signal. The sensor is probably of either the variable resistance or electromagnetic variety and completes a particular circuit. Sensor resistance decreases as pressure, temperature, or speed is increased and vice versa. As the sensor resistance changes with conditions it provides the PCM with an input voltage signal. If this input voltage signal is not received by the PCM, the circuit is considered open and a P0697 will be stored. A malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) may also be illuminated but keep in mind that some vehicles will require multiple drive cycles (with a failure) for a MIL to be illuminated. For this reason, you should allow the PCM to enter readiness mode before considering any repair successful. Simply clear the code, after repairs are performed, and drive the vehicle normally. If the PCM enters readiness mode, the repair was successful. If the code is reset, the PCM will not enter readiness mode and you will know that you still have a problem. Severity & Symptoms The severity of a stored P0697 depends upon which sensor circuit is experiencing an open condition. One must consider other stored codes before a determination of severity can be made. Symptoms of a P0697 code may include: Failure of the transmission to shift between sport and economy modes Transmission shifting malfunctions Delayed (or no) transmission engagement Failure of the transmission to switch between all-wheel and two-wheel drive modes Failure of the transfer case to shift from low to high gear Lack of front differential engagement Lack of front hub engagement Erratic or inoperative speedometer/odometer Causes Possible causes for this engine code include: Open circuits and/or connectors Defective or blown fuses and/or fusible links Faulty system power relay Bad sensor Diagnostic and Repair Procedures To diagnose a stored code P0697, I would need access to a diagnostic scanner, a digital volt/ohmmeter (DVOM), and a trustworthy vehicle information source (like All Data DIY). A portable oscilloscope may also be helpful under certain circumstances. Use your vehicle information source to determine the location and function of the sensor in question, as it relates to your particular vehicle. Check system fuses and fusible links with the circuit under a full load. Fuses that may appear normal when there is very little load on the circuit often fail when the circuit is fully loaded. Blown fuses should be replaced, keeping in mind that a shorted circuit is likely the cause of the spent fuse. Perform a visual inspection of sensor system related wiring harnesses and connectors. Repair or replace damaged or burned wiring, connectors, and components as required. Next, I would connect the scanner to the vehicle diagnostic connector and retrieve all stored trouble codes. I like to write them down, along with any related freeze frame data, as this information may prove helpful if the code turns out to be intermittent. After that I would go ahead and clear the code and test drive the vehicle to see if it is immediately reset. Should all system fuses be intact, and the code is immediately reset, use the DVOM to test reference voltage and ground signals at the sensor in question. Typically, you should expect to find five-volts and a common ground at the sensor connector. If the voltage and ground signals are present on the sensor connector, continue by testing sensor resistance and continuity levels. Use your vehicle information source to obtain testing specs and compare your actual findings to them. Sensors that fail to comply with these specs should be replaced. Disconnect all related controllers from the system circuits before testing resistance with the DVOM. If there is no reference voltage signal at the sensor, disconnect all related controllers and use the DVOM to check circuit resistance and continuity between the sensor and the PCM. Replace open or shorted circuits as required. If an electromagnetic sensor is used, with a reciprocating signal, use the oscilloscope to monitor live data; paying particular attention to glitches and completely open circuits. Additional diagnostic notes: This type of code is generally provided as support for a more specific code A stored code P0697 is normally associated with the drivetrain Related DTC Discussions Register now to ask a question (free) p0697 help required and will be most greatful hi a bit of back ground before I get to my problem (p0697) I have (for my sins) a 2006 vivaro ht 2.0cdti with only 83k miles much loved and looked after very tidy body that was ru

Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0697
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

Hope this helps.
 
OP
OP
iain26
Mar 9, 2019
300
360
Scotland
Funster No
58,985
MH
AutoTrail Dakota ’14
Exp
Newbie
Courtesy of; https://www.obd-codes.com/p0697


P0697 Sensor Reference Voltage C Circuit Open OBD-II Trouble Code Technical Description Article by Stephen Darby ASE Certified Technician Sensor Reference Voltage "C" Circuit Open What does that mean?

This diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is a generic powertrain code, which means that it applies to OBD-II equipped vehicles. Although generic, the specific repair steps may vary depending on make/model. When I find a stored P0697 code, it means that the powertrain control module (PCM) has detected an open circuit for a particular sensor; designated in this case as "C". When diagnosing an OBD-II code, the term open could be substituted for absent. The sensor in question is typically associated with the automatic transmission, transfer case, or one of the differentials. This code will almost always be accompanied by a more specific sensor code. The P0697 adds that the circuit is open. Consult a reliable vehicle information source (All Data DIY is a great choice) to determine the sensor location (and function) as it pertains to the vehicle in question. If the P0697 is stored alone, suspect that a PCM programming error has occurred. Obviously, you will need to diagnose and repair any other sensor codes prior to diagnosing and repairing the P0697 - but keep the open "C" circuit in mind. Reference voltage (typically five-volts) is applied to the sensor in question via a switched (energized with the key on) circuit. There should also be a ground signal. The sensor is probably of either the variable resistance or electromagnetic variety and completes a particular circuit. Sensor resistance decreases as pressure, temperature, or speed is increased and vice versa. As the sensor resistance changes with conditions it provides the PCM with an input voltage signal. If this input voltage signal is not received by the PCM, the circuit is considered open and a P0697 will be stored. A malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) may also be illuminated but keep in mind that some vehicles will require multiple drive cycles (with a failure) for a MIL to be illuminated. For this reason, you should allow the PCM to enter readiness mode before considering any repair successful. Simply clear the code, after repairs are performed, and drive the vehicle normally. If the PCM enters readiness mode, the repair was successful. If the code is reset, the PCM will not enter readiness mode and you will know that you still have a problem. Severity & Symptoms The severity of a stored P0697 depends upon which sensor circuit is experiencing an open condition. One must consider other stored codes before a determination of severity can be made. Symptoms of a P0697 code may include: Failure of the transmission to shift between sport and economy modes Transmission shifting malfunctions Delayed (or no) transmission engagement Failure of the transmission to switch between all-wheel and two-wheel drive modes Failure of the transfer case to shift from low to high gear Lack of front differential engagement Lack of front hub engagement Erratic or inoperative speedometer/odometer Causes Possible causes for this engine code include: Open circuits and/or connectors Defective or blown fuses and/or fusible links Faulty system power relay Bad sensor Diagnostic and Repair Procedures To diagnose a stored code P0697, I would need access to a diagnostic scanner, a digital volt/ohmmeter (DVOM), and a trustworthy vehicle information source (like All Data DIY). A portable oscilloscope may also be helpful under certain circumstances. Use your vehicle information source to determine the location and function of the sensor in question, as it relates to your particular vehicle. Check system fuses and fusible links with the circuit under a full load. Fuses that may appear normal when there is very little load on the circuit often fail when the circuit is fully loaded. Blown fuses should be replaced, keeping in mind that a shorted circuit is likely the cause of the spent fuse. Perform a visual inspection of sensor system related wiring harnesses and connectors. Repair or replace damaged or burned wiring, connectors, and components as required. Next, I would connect the scanner to the vehicle diagnostic connector and retrieve all stored trouble codes. I like to write them down, along with any related freeze frame data, as this information may prove helpful if the code turns out to be intermittent. After that I would go ahead and clear the code and test drive the vehicle to see if it is immediately reset. Should all system fuses be intact, and the code is immediately reset, use the DVOM to test reference voltage and ground signals at the sensor in question. Typically, you should expect to find five-volts and a common ground at the sensor connector. If the voltage and ground signals are present on the sensor connector, continue by testing sensor resistance and continuity levels. Use your vehicle information source to obtain testing specs and compare your actual findings to them. Sensors that fail to comply with these specs should be replaced. Disconnect all related controllers from the system circuits before testing resistance with the DVOM. If there is no reference voltage signal at the sensor, disconnect all related controllers and use the DVOM to check circuit resistance and continuity between the sensor and the PCM. Replace open or shorted circuits as required. If an electromagnetic sensor is used, with a reciprocating signal, use the oscilloscope to monitor live data; paying particular attention to glitches and completely open circuits. Additional diagnostic notes: This type of code is generally provided as support for a more specific code A stored code P0697 is normally associated with the drivetrain Related DTC Discussions Register now to ask a question (free) p0697 help required and will be most greatful hi a bit of back ground before I get to my problem (p0697) I have (for my sins) a 2006 vivaro ht 2.0cdti with only 83k miles much loved and looked after very tidy body that was ru

Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0697
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

Hope this helps.
Thanks for that. It just convinces me that I know very little and will probably be calling my breakdown service on Monday to try and diagnose.
I might just try clearing the fault code and seeing if it comes back though :)
 

Emmit

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 14, 2009
8,239
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iain26,

You saying, "I know very little" means that you know more than me. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

As said, call out the Cavalerie, said in a very Kenneth Williams voice, "That's yer actual french"

Bon Chance
 
Sep 3, 2012
7,784
26,719
Cheshire
Funster No
22,759
MH
C Class Elddis 175
Exp
8+ years
If the fault is a voltage linked one , it could be worth trying a new engine to body earth cable as this cable has been the cause of many strange starting/running/ warning light , problems in the past (may be worth changing the battery to body earth cable as well)
If you have jump cables, just try and connect those from your engine to body earth as a temporary check to see if it clears the fault.

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Jan 27, 2018
2,782
2,230
Northampton
Funster No
52,151
MH
Rapido & Bongone
This extracted from fiat forum
as stated elsewhere an earthing problem can create this problem
The best way to fault find this is either to find a wiring diagram showing all the other sensors on this circuit and unplug them 1 by 1 until the issue resolves or to look at live data on diagnostics and see what all the sensors are doing and look for any with odd readings.
The most common issue on the ducato causing this problem is the dpf differential pressure sensor shorting out internally. Unplug this and go for a short drive. See if your issue is resolved.
The dpf sensor is famous for causing funsters expensive problems in france. A good place to start.

These sensors are prone to any debris or condensation in the exhaust, which can cause the sensor pipes to become blocked / partially blocked with water. thus causing the sensor to fail completely.
the Euro5 has low DPF, the Euro6 twin has DPF tucked up behind the engine. E5 differential dpf sensor low down by DPF, the E6 is high at front of firewall under bonnet
The problem you can get with continuing to drive for any real distance with this situation is that, as the sensor is now ineffective the engine will not perform any regeneration and so the dpf will become blocked.
So don't travel too far with this problem
 
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Dec 7, 2009
51
225
Shropshire & Algarve
Funster No
9,593
MH
LP
Exp
2 yrs
OMG……Iain 20 - having regularly driven horse boxes to Harwich when younger my fear of a red light is ever present. And reading all these scenarios and ”might be’s ” make me a little bit thankful I insisted we sell our MH last autumn and buy a caravan. Hubby had a stroke and I felt I needed to be more techno minded, these posh vans are just so complex. Poor Iain20, it’s the helplessness and fearing whats coming, I would have gone into “limp” mode by now. But remember when it’s all sorted and you are out of the woods, the whole experience will become an episode to add to your travel journal and share with open mouthed earth dwellers.
 
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iain26
Mar 9, 2019
300
360
Scotland
Funster No
58,985
MH
AutoTrail Dakota ’14
Exp
Newbie
A426C65A-CC1D-4BB8-AB35-F04B5E925C63.jpeg

Off we go. Now sitting outside a Fiat Garage Having been inside and 3 guys and a laptop have all come to the same conclusion and have ordered a sensor. Should be with us this afternoon. However I am yet to find out what sensor but they were laid on their backs staring at the exhaust!
No doubt it will be itemised on the invoice:)
 
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OP
iain26
Mar 9, 2019
300
360
Scotland
Funster No
58,985
MH
AutoTrail Dakota ’14
Exp
Newbie
A few hours later and 194E lighter we are all fixed and working.
New DFP Pressure sensor fitted at a competent Fiat garage at Wailly Beaucamp If anyone ever needs help.
~Just glad we can get back on the road.
 

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