Engine & Leisure Batteries Dead...

[IanRJ]

Due to a combination of lockdown and a member of the family shielding it has been impossible to get access to our van and start it up / take it for a drive, there is no hookup at my storage area. I know (from remote monitoring) that both the engine and leisure batteries are dead.

It’s a Ducato 2019 150 BHP, and I’m hoping I can recover the engine battery, and get it back to life, holding a charge (fingers crossed). But the two 90 amp AGMs are probably goosed!

I might as well take the opportunity to replace them with Lithium so looking for recommendations on which are worth considering at 100 to 110 amps?

Appreciate feedback.
Ian

 

[Sapper520]

Have you downloaded the latest magazine? There’s information in it that may help you.

 

[the1andonly]

Read this months mag on lithiums. Edit beaten to it.
Even if you use ehu all the time i would invest in solar min 100w just for storage and a votronics duo mppt controller. Battery wise varta lfd90 or the like. this is the cost effective solution (I am soon to chnge to gels). If you normally use ehu there is no need for lithium.

 

[IanRJ]

Read this months mag on lithiums. Edit beaten to it.
Even if you use ehu all the time i would invest in solar min 100w just for storage and a votronics duo mppt controller. Battery wise varta lfd90 or the like. this is the cost effective solution (I am soon to chnge to gels). If you normally use ehu there is no need for lithium.

I have 100w solar but at this time of the year they last only so long even with that.

About to read the mag!

 

[Robert Clark]

I'd certainly try reviving your leisure batteries before replacing them with Lithium
Furthermore before investing in Lithium I'd suggest investing in solar panels which would could keep both sets of btteries topped up over winter.
If you've managed so far with the capacity of your AGM batteries then Lithium is unlikely to give you much benefit.

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[IanRJ]

Thanks for the heads up theoneandonly and Sapper520- the mag is a great read this month - and satisfied me I need to go to lithium's.

 

[the1andonly]

read this thread

Making the change from lead acid to lithium - a thread with pictures

So, after being lucky enough to get a lithium battery for less than half price, (thanks Jim), this thread will be the process for how I have changed over. I may be talking to myself a lot but that’s okay, I always search for rubbish like this when I do anything so I am hoping it will help in...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

a lot of work or very deep pockets.
ps i have 450W solar and no problems other than self created cockups.
as robert says try and revive existing batteries ,even just for this years "extended season".
hope it all helps.

 

[IanRJ]

Read the thread - nice write up with excellent illustration photos - thanks for that.

Those leisure batteries of mine are going no where - according to the Sargent remote they were last seen at 4v before everything shut down. They are Banner 90amp AGM units, they always seemed to drain more quickly than anticipated given the load. The most I could ever have pulled out of them was 43amps (I calculated it) and there were alarms on the Sargent about shutting down! They may never have been fully charged of course, but the panel only shows voltage so hard to tell the real state of charge and drain.

They also took forever to charge whilst driving, max feed from the Sargent Panel is 20amps, though I suspect it is a LOT less than that, and as mentioned above, they may never have fully charged.

Thanks to Eddies feedback (in the magazine) and those from others on the forum I'm going to swap to a single Lithium in the short term (probably 120amp) with a 30amp B2B, I've been threatening this for a year or more, probably add a second as soon as I prove the setup.

I do intend to extend the solar, but more interested in charging whilst travelling in the first instance. We move every two days at least when not hooked up.

Q: Would there be any issue with using two lithium's of differing amperages (i.e. 120amp and 100amp) in parallel? I'm certain I can get a 120amp in the battery box but possibly not two.

Q: I have a question around the B2B too. I'd like to get a 60amp model, but that would be too much for a single battery (ideal for two of course). I wondered if there are any B2B that can have the charge current restricted, say to 30amp on a 60amp model? I would just need to get the larger unit in that case to work now and in the future with a second battery?

Thanks all for the feedback.

 

[Andacami]

I've been in the same situation. My batteries (cab and hab) went down to stupid voltages very quickly over a couple of weeks in November! Need to work out why when I can get back out there...

I was able, pre-lockdown, to retrieve both dead batteries and they seem to have recovered with the use of a Ring and Ctek smart charger/conditioner and they hold their charge so I may have just about got away with it.

Lithium has lots of benefits for deep pockets but I think I'd be looking at decent Solar and B2B charging options first and it "sounds" like your usage is similar so maybe a cheaper option - one can always invest in Lithium compatible kit and go for the batteries when getting into off-grid stuff.

 

[andy63]

Q: Would there be any issue with using two lithium's of differing amperages (i.e. 120amp and 100amp) in parallel? I'm certain I can get a 120amp in the battery box but possibly not two.

I would say that's a no no..but I'd check with the battery manufacturer..
I never thought it was a great idea with lead acid if you wanted to have an ideal set up..and with the lithium battery cells staying in balance been fairly critical to get the best out of them then I see two dissimilar capacity batteries as been an issue..

I wondered if there are any B2B that can have the charge current restricted, say to 30amp on a 60amp model

The Stirling 60 amp unit I have has a 50% power setting...though I've never used it..it seems to have been provided primarily so the unit can run cooler and the fan doesn't have to run constantly..
Andy

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[ManTheVan]

Q: I have a question around the B2B too. I'd like to get a 60amp model, but that would be too much for a single battery (ideal for two of course). I wondered if there are any B2B that can have the charge current restricted, say to 30amp on a 60amp model? I would just need to get the larger unit in that case to work now and in the future with a second battery?

As far as I understand it, you can put 60A into most LiFePO4s without an issue. Mine says it can take 100A current, although I only have a Sterling 30A B2B. I wouldn’t worry about 60A, as a new LiFePO4 is likely to be able to soak up whatever you give it.

 

[IanRJ]

I've been in the same situation although my batteries (cab and hab) went down to stupid voltages over a couple of weeks in November! Need to work out why when I can get back out there...

I was able, pre-lockdown, to retrieve both dead batteries and they seem to have recovered with the use of a Ring and Cetek smart charger/conditioner and they hold their charge so I may have just about got away with it.

Lithium has lots of benefits for deep pockets but I think I'd be looking at decent Solar and B2B charging options first and it "sounds" like your usage is similar so maybe a cheaper option - one can always invest in Lithiiuum compatible kit and go for the batteries when getting into off-grid stuff.

Thanks for the feedback. I’m certain the AGMs will be dead, and replacement with something decent will be £150 to £220 each I suspect (£300 - £440 the pair). A single Sterling 120amp lithium is £600, not cheap but will only buy once.

 

[IanRJ]

As far as I understand it, you can put 60A into most LiFePO4s without an issue. Mine says it can take 100A current, although I only have a Sterling 30A B2B. I wouldn’t worry about 60A, as a new LiFePO4 is likely to be able to soak up whatever you give it.

Sterling and several others quote max input of 50amps for a single battery.

 

[andy63]

As far as I understand it, you can put 60A into most LiFePO4s without an issue.

Most of the drop in lithium will have a data sheet from the manufacturer stating what is recommended..
My tn 110 amp hour batteries can be charged at up to 50 amps..but the recommended rate is .2C ...so little over 20 amps..
Lithium are not much different to any other battery..the harder you work them the less the life expectancy..
Andy

 

[IanRJ]

I would say that's a no no..but I'd check with the battery manufacturer..
I never thought it was a great idea with lead acid if you wanted to have an ideal set up..and with the lithium battery cells staying in balance been fairly critical to get the best out of them then I see two dissimilar capacity batteries as been an issue..


The Stirling 60 amp unit I have has a 50% power setting...though I've never used it..it seems to have been provided primarily so the unit can run cooler and the fan doesn't have to run constantly..
Andy

I’m sure (having thought it thru) you are correct mismatched battery power would compromise cell balancing when in parallel. I was too simplistic with that idea!

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[Stealaway]

Is this kind of expense only justified if you spend all your holidays - OFF GRID? and pointless if you spend them on sites?

 

[gus-lopez]

I'd sort the engtine battery first to make sure you haven't a load of ECU/airbag/bcm troubles.