electrical gremlin = failed MOT (1 Viewer)

[jac-in-a-box]

2005 Fiat X244 2.8JTD Autotrail Dakota...hello all, been a while since posting due to dealing with some grim "life kicks you in the tender parts" and it seems life keeps on giving!

Just taken the m'home in for an MOT only to get a call to tell me that when they put on dipped lights the engine cuts out...it's fine on side lights. It can't be looked at until tomorrow now and I'd hoped (optimistically) to get away for the weekend and for the first time in a couple of years too <sniff>

I'll have to admit it did this to me a couple of days ago just after I washed the accumulated gunk off. Tested all the easy to do stuff prior to booking the test and as soon as dipped lights were switched on the engine cut out, happily restarted with lights off, but again, it cut out when the lights were put on.

Not unreasonably, I thought it's water related and a quick spray with WD40 around the light connections at the front lamps seemed to resolve the issue...but not at crunch time for the test. The WD40 trick isn't working this time either.

Anyone have any pointers please, I'm obviously trying to avoid any un-needed work and component changes and protect my wallet. First time using this garage so I'm a little cautious and I've already heard the sound of teeth-sucking down the phone!

 

[Beacons]

Bump

 

[Geo]

I wonder what method of testing he used, and what section he failed that under

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[Deleted member 29692]

I wonder what method of testing he used, and what section he failed that under

If switching the headlights on makes the engine switch off then surely the headlights aren't working correctly so that's why it fails?

 

[jac-in-a-box]

Well, tbh, he didn't say it failed...just couldn't do the test. Either way I've still not got an MOT.

Be good if someone could please shed a little light (poor pun) on what might be wrong...hardly a great situation to be in; driving along, need some lights and the whole shebang stops. So despite my angst on not getting away, just as well to have found this issue now.

Wish I could find something like a wiring diagram on-line but nowt worth looking at so far...seems my google-fu is fubared too!

 

[Gellyneck]

Does the engine cut out when you turn anything else on, eg heater blower?

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

Try connecting a jump lead between the engine casing and the battery negative and see if this stops the problem. The engine earth may be poor and using the rest of the wiring loom as a bypass.

 

[bjandlin]

Sounds like a back feed, do you have DLR's fitted ? does it happen just on dip or with main beam as well, to suggest a light circuit or switch fault.
BJ

 

[jac-in-a-box]

Does the engine cut out when you turn anything else on, eg heater blower?

I don't "think" so; certainly when I was doing my pre-MOT checks I had the engine running when I tried the wipers, brake/fog lights - probaly had the wipers, fan and a quick horn beep. Engine cut out only when dipped beams were turned on, 'twas fine on side lights.

Try connecting a jump lead between the engine casing and the battery negative and see if this stops the problem. The engine earth may be poor and using the rest of the wiring loom as a bypass.

I had starting issues in May last year, as part of the process in eliminating possible simple causes, I made a heavy duty earthing "loop" - battery neg to o/s chassis leg to inlet manifold to gear box to n/s chassis leg...didn't cure my starting issues - (was after market alarm and some chaffed wiring) But confident it's not an engine earth issue.

Sounds like a back feed, do you have DLR's fitted ? does it happen just on dip or with main beam as well, to suggest a light circuit or switch fault.
BJ

Used to have cheapo DRL's fitted but they were removed a while ago and the associated wiring safely sorted out. Engine only cuts out when turning on dipped beams - can't get to full beam as the engine has stopped! Don't think dipped or main beam can be operated unless the engine is running? Stand to be corrected though!

Been having a head scratching session on what might have happened and I'm convincing myself it's to do with moisture. Been a lot of heavy rain up here lately plus my efforts with washing (hose pipe only) and I noticed in the past that the fuse/wiring terminal plate that sits on top of the battery is often wet, it certainly was after I washed the van, I usually give this area a good spray with WD40 and have never really given it too much thought. Should there be a cover fitted over this "plate"? Doesn't seem good practise to leave this exposed the wetness.
Can't help but wonder if the issue is in that area, especially as it pee'd down overnight before taking it in for the test?

Appreciate your suggestions so far, thank you all! I just hope it's something simple

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[Boycie]

I see you have posted on the Fiat forum. Try this link for the X244 manual downloads. It may be some help.
http://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?categoryid=22
Phil

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

With the ignition on and engine not running do the lights work properly?
If not I would take off the steering column cowling and see if the wires are damaged on the light stalk

 

[Gellyneck]

Think your dips and heads should work with ignition on but engine not running.
Was thinking it could be an earth \ alternator issue but would have expected same issue with blower motor and engine running.

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[jac-in-a-box]

I see you have posted on the Fiat forum. Try this link for the X244 manual downloads. It may be some help.
http://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?categoryid=22
Phil

Thanks for that...had a quick look and it's all Italian. I'll have a closer look and see what I can make of it.

With the ignition on and engine not running do the lights work properly?
If not I would take off the steering column cowling and see if the wires are damaged on the light stalk

Think your dips and heads should work with ignition on but engine not running.
Was thinking it could be an earth \ alternator issue but would have expected same issue with blower motor and engine running.

I'm certain, that on mine at least the dipped/main beams will not work unless the engine is running. Certainly the side lights work without the engine running. I'd be hugely grateful of someone could confirm please.

Checking the light stalk is a suggestion I'll make to the garage...perhaps the light stalk is the culprit? I don't know and I'm well into the realm of straw clutching just know. I hope it can be easily and inexpensively sorted - lets see what happens tomorrow, if it's not sorted I'll bring it home and tinker myself.

Any other suggestions will be gratefully received

 

[Late Starting]

Have you checked that the alternator is charging as it should it could be turning lights on is taking voltage too low causing fuel cut out to come into operation thus stopping the engine just my thoughts on your problem
Best of luck
Cliff

 

[emjaiuk]

Have you checked that the alternator is charging as it should it could be turning lights on is taking voltage too low causing fuel cut out to come into operation thus stopping the engine just my thoughts on your problem
Best of luck
Cliff

You could check voltage drop with a set of jump leads if you kave another vehicle available

Malcolm

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[Zigisla]

Sounds like a back feed, do you have DLR's fitted ? does it happen just on dip or with main beam as well, to suggest a light circuit or switch fault.
BJ

With Engine running, try using the flashers, this will bring in the main beam on without switching on the dipped beam first. If that works, push / pull the main beam stalk to the main beam position then switch on the dipped beam.

 

[jac-in-a-box]

Have you checked that the alternator is charging as it should it could be turning lights on is taking voltage too low causing fuel cut out to come into operation thus stopping the engine just my thoughts on your problem
Best of luck
Cliff

That's something worth a look at. Although the bus hasn't been used in anger for a while, the battery was new last year and has been kept topped up with solar via a Sterling B2B charger and a CTEK charger in the winter months...it had only been started for a few minutes before the fault showed up, I would've thought a fully topped up battery would have kept up with the demand of the lights being turned on if the alternator wasn't performing?

You could check voltage drop with a set of jump leads if you kave another vehicle available

Malcolm

As above, will check.

With Engine running, try using the flashers, this will bring in the main beam on without switching on the dipped beam first. If that works, push / pull the main beam stalk to the main beam position then switch on the dipped beam.

That's a good idea! Going to trot off to the garage soon and will ask them to try that.

I think I may have been wrong in suggesting that dipped/full beams only work with the engine running, I tried checking dipped/main beam on a couple of cars and they work with ignition on and engine stopped, can't imagine the m'home is any different especially as others have suggested this should be the case - sorry!

I'll update when I know more

 

[jac-in-a-box]

Not a great communicator is the MOT man! I passed on suggestions that those who responded to my request for for words of wisdom had made and they were met with disapproval that hinted that I didn't trust him, that they have a lot of experience in dealing with similar issues and I should let them crack on...fair enough I suppose. Just so dis-similar to the garage I use for car MOT's.

Anyway, it appears that the alarm/immobiliser was the culprit and they've at least got the engine to stay running with the lights on. The engine management light is now on and they're hopeful that will be resolved tomorrow.

It was my suspicion last year when I had non-start issues that alarm system was playing up when I found a snakes wedding of wires stuffed away behind the dash with some chaffed cables...I resolved to have it binned, but just never got around to it. Think I'll get it properly removed by a auto electrician and something more modern and reliable fitted.

Fingers crossed it'll be back tomorrow - watch this space!

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[jac-in-a-box]

Well, that's it back in my tender care and has been happily sitting in my drive and undergone numerous "engine running, turn-on lights" tests and the engine hasn't cut out...joy!

Despite my miss-givings on the garage I was expecting a fairly hefty bill. They'd worked on it all day Friday and for the majority of a full day on Saturday. I'd arranged to pick up and pay on Monday and went down with a wad of cash - friendly greeting from owner and it was suggested the alarm should be replaced (still works at the mo') Pointed towards the girl in office, to pay, "how much" I ask...£60.00. That's not right I tell her, off she goes and comes back with the owner. £60.00 will cover the MOT he tells me; the repairs not a problem and he'll see me next year. Wouldn't even take £30 to give to his sparky who sorted it out.

Astonished is putting it mildly...I visited the garage several times and there definately was work being carried out. Going to drop off a few crates as a thank you.

Thanks are due too to those who chipped in with suggestions - thank you; genuinely appreciated!