Electric shocks from the awning poles (1 Viewer)

[autorouter]

Unless there is a L to E earth fault in the van

That's what I meant when I said the next customer may not be so lucky. If there IS an L to E fault, the RCD should trip if it is working. If it's not working there's a good chance the MCB will trip.

If the earth is missing, and there's an L to E fault, the whole van becomes live, and there's a real possibility of a lethal electric shock.

 

[Coolcats]

There is another explanation Eath's are not all the same ! You can think that Earthing a device at any point (at the electrical plug in post in the case of the Motorhome) means all is good, in general terms you would be right except for Potential difference.

It is possible to gain and measure a voltage between two earthing points.

 

[Raul]

That’s why earth bonding is required.

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[Coolcats]

That’s why earth bonding is required.

Even with earth bonding it’s possible to get a shock or measure a voltage

 

[autorouter]

It is possible to gain and measure a voltage between two earthing points.

That's why an EV charging point usually requires its own earthing rod. Except those with an electronic gizmo that is an alternative.

If a MH has an RCD at the hookup post, one in the MH, and a good solid earth wire, then it's reasonably safe. If one of those is missing, you're treading on thin ice.

 

[Coolcats]

That's why an EV charging point usually requires its own earthing rod. Except those with an electronic gizmo that is an alternative.

If a MH has an RCD at the hookup post, one in the MH, and a good solid earth wire, then it's reasonably safe. If one of those is missing, you're treading on thin ice.

Indeed a missing earth can be fatal when I was an apprentice one of the guys son's was killed by touching a record turn table and one of his toes touched a gas pipe in the lounge.

your right things can be reasonably safe even when there is the potential (not a pun) all around. I suspect anyone who has worked in substations or power plants will know all about this (I have not). What I can say is that I have measured a voltage across two (Copper) earthing bars running parallel together with about an inch gap connected together and one bar connected to a 30mm earthing cable, place a meter between the two bars and there was a voltage demonstrating how potential difference works, weird strange but true.

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[Spriddler]

....... place a meter between the two bars and there was a voltage demonstrating how potential difference works, weird strange but true.

I used get Radio 2 on my tape recorder when using it next to the kitchen radiator.

(Just sayin'.......).

 

[tonyidle]

I used get Radio 2 on my tape recorder when using it next to the kitchen radiator.

(Just sayin'.......).

What do you get now?

 

[Coolcats]

I used get Radio 2 on my tape recorder when using it next to the kitchen radiator.

(Just sayin'.......).

Brilliant

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[Richard n Ann]

When I was at college the lab didn't have earths, it had an isolated supply for safety.
So why do we use earths?

(For those of you that don't know, electricity only flows to earth because neutral is connected to earth at the substation.)

 

[Coolcats]

When I was at college the lab didn't have earths, it had an isolated supply for safety.
So why do we use earths?

(For those of you that don't know, electricity only flows to earth because neutral is connected to earth at the substation.)

I think that question could make this thread be one of the biggest on MHF

 

[Richard n Ann]

I think that question could make this thread be one of the biggest on MHF

No, our knowledge bot (autorouter) will know

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[Spriddler]

What do you get now?

Actually it was about 50 years ago when I were but a slip of a lad so it would've been The Light Programme. But if I still had the tape recorder and now that I'm an old fart it would probably be picking up Gardeners' Question Time or the Jeremy Vine show .

 

[SarahS]

Sorry, for some reason I missed post #19. And Landy Andy got in first with the next steps to take. I'd just add that if it's a missing earth at the hookup post, the campsite owner should very interested - the next customer may not be so lucky. You're doing him a favour pointing it out.

Back home with a second cable. It seems to be the cable we took with us as that shows no earth, and our other cable shows all fine!! Off to buy another cable

 

[tonyidle]

Back home with a second cable. It seems to be the cable we took with us as that shows no earth, and our other cable shows all fine!! Off to buy another cable

You could of course remove the covers from the plugs and replace/retighten the connections? Every hook-up cable I've ever had has had badly tightened terminal screws.

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[Clive Mott]

Suspect earth wiring in the van or Hookup lead or site Hookup point as you were acting as a connection between the ground outside and the van. Both should be at the same potential. Some small leakage between the electrics in the van and van earth in damp weather is not unusual but this will be a fraction of one milliamp. The rcd opens at 30 milliamp. You could always measure the voltage with a digital voltmeter. You hold one probe while standing outside and touch the other probe on van metalwork.

 

[Pausim]

I thought the RCD would have picked up the fault with or without a wired earth. As soon as the OP felt a shock, by providing the earth through their body, there should have been a detectable imbalance that the RCD would pick up. Polarity should not be problem if the RCD is a good one that switches off both poles. With Hymer being a German make and wired to continental standards I would expect the RCD to be a 2 pole one.

 

[Coolcats]

That's why an EV charging point usually requires its own earthing rod. Except those with an electronic gizmo that is an alternative.

If a MH has an RCD at the hookup post, one in the MH, and a good solid earth wire, then it's reasonably safe. If one of those is missing, you're treading on thin ice.

Just a thought if the earth is provided by an earthing spike at the post depending upon th weather/season the properties of that earth will change

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[tonyidle]

I thought the RCD would have picked up the fault with or without a wired earth. As soon as the OP felt a shock, by providing the earth through their body, there should have been a detectable imbalance that the RCD would pick up. Polarity should not be problem if the RCD is a good one that switches off both poles. With Hymer being a German make and wired to continental standards I would expect the RCD to be a 2 pole one.

The RCD requires 30mA to operate. That is just on the danger threshold - well above where you'll feel it. You can experience a very unpleasant but not normally life threatening shock even when the RCD operates.

Current

Reaction

1 Milliampere

Perception level

5 Milliamperes

Slight shock felt; not painful but disturbing

6-30 Milliamperes

Painful shock; “let-go” range

50-150 Milliamperes

Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contraction

1000-4,300 Milliamperes

Ventricular fibrillation

10,000+ Milliamperes

Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death

 

[SarahS]

The RCD requires 30mA to operate. That is just on the danger threshold - well above where you'll feel it. You can experience a very unpleasant but not normally life threatening shock even when the RCD operates.

Current

Reaction

1 Milliampere

Perception level

5 Milliamperes

Slight shock felt; not painful but disturbing

6-30 Milliamperes

Painful shock; “let-go” range

50-150 Milliamperes

Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contraction

1000-4,300 Milliamperes

Ventricular fibrillation

10,000+ Milliamperes

Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death

thanks for that!! I can confirm that the shock level was only 5 or below on this checklist!!

 

[tonyidle]

thanks for that!! I can confirm that the shock level was only 5 or below on this checklist!!

Good!!

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[Ade S]

Assuming??? that you were on EHU, check the wiring inside the sockets.

I found one of the wires was loose causing me to get a shock from the body of the van.

This was the exact problem my son had on his camper, after checking the whole vehicle and finding nothing it transpired it was a faulty EHU post. Check on another electricity supply as your first port of call

 

[Krumpli]

Tyres contain ingredients such as carbon which conducts electricity. This avoids static problems.

 

[ronecc1]

I get zapped by the car sometimes but it's not painful enough for me to stop wearing crocs

I'll tell you what will stop you wearing crocs. If you stand on a large piece of granite, (like on some caravan site paths/parking areas) directly on the arch of your foot, you could damage the nerve and get Plantar Fasciitis. The soles of crocs are so soft they will not protect your foot. Damn painful, when I did it one one campsite. Took a long while to get it sorted. Be warned! I have never worn crocs since.

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[Richard n Ann]

I'll tell you what will stop you wearing crocs. If you stand on a large piece of granite, (like on some caravan site paths/parking areas) directly on the arch of your foot, you could damage the nerve and get Plantar Fasciitis. The soles of crocs are so soft they will not protect your foot. Damn painful, when I did it one one campsite. Took a long while to get it sorted. Be warned! I have never worn crocs since.

I've had a piece of slate Chipping in my heel. Must have stuck underneath and swung down when I lifted my foot up.. ouch.

Another time I was on the garage roof before it was finished, I was crouched down on wet visqueen and suddenly my left leg slipped out and twisted to 90° from under me. Holy poop that hurt and I was limping for weeks.

So I don't wear them for work anymore

 

[gus-lopez]

So I don't wear them for work anymore

You stick to the flip flops then?

 

[Kirsten]

Back to the actual topic ..... have ordered a new EHU lead AND ...... spent ages dismantling the old one** to find the green n yellow wire in the bit you plug into the van was not in the little holey . AHA !
The other end [ the bit you plug into the EHU thingy on the site ] is ok - well connected but slightly spidery .
Now going to cut the wires - leaving the connectors as is so I can copy and order 2 new end thingys and make a smaller EHU allmyownself . TA DAH [maybe ]

Will have about 12m of the wire left so could see small cottage industry opportunity- but stymied for lack of any electrical expertise

** the dismantling was not the easiest job despite help from Mr Interweb. Hack hack smash baaad language .

Van has passed MOT today - yaaay

BUT Now next ordeal looming- Sarah on phone to nice MOT man can hear her saying 'they are NOT campervan tyres? We were told they were when we bought the van they were and that they were new ' but we asked the MOT place to check as there were some other issues with the van when we bought it
-but we need 4 new tyres today AAAAARGH - as they are NOT campervan tyres and one is cracked , others showing signs of wear
better get the dicing with death fitted by me connectors ordered pronto before we cant afford them

PS no prizes for guessing where we bought our HYMER from but for sake of accuracy the EHU lead was the one we had in the old van

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[Richard n Ann]

Now going to cut the wires - leaving the connectors as is so I can copy and order 2 new end thingys and make a smaller EHU allmyownself . TA DAH [maybe ]

Boot lace ferrules you can get kits on ebay with the special crimp tool.

 

[Richard n Ann]

You stick to the flip flops then?

Yes I've got hi-vis ones for work

 

[Kirsten]

Boot lace ferrules you can get kits on ebay with the special crimp tool.

Why and what ?
Thought I had reached zenith of DIY with 2 x screwdrivers and the kitchen scissors - is this something for the EHU or a decoration for the Crocks??

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