Electric bikes (1 Viewer)

[colinw]

Yes it is orange . it is the KTM erace .
I bought the bike to help me exercise whilst I had a broken leg .
To be honest the bike is surplus to requirements as we have bought dahon folders to go in the van .

 

[chaser]

Has anyone tried the gtech ones that are being advertised in the papers , seem to be a different system altogether, belt drive , no gears, but no price so must be dear
Www.gtech.co.uk/ebike

 

[colinw]

I use this , it is called the walkydog . our dog took to it straight away . you can go for a walk or full pelt the dog loves it .

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[colinw]

Lenny , my bike does not struggle on hills ( its a mountain bike ) , but I can't vouch for its efficiency compared to a crank drive .

 

[jockaneezer]

I've posted on here before about the trouble I had with my Panasonic drive, the pawls in the crank freewheel stick, either causing the pedals to turn but not transmit any drive, or the motor ends up driving the pedals when you want to ease off, it feels a bit like riding a fixed wheel bike. The problem seems to be a lube fault and too soft a spring on the pawls, but it's a complete motor strip down to fix and I let it go too long the first time it happened and broke one of the pawls. They're almost impossible to obtain and I had to fit second hand ones. I'm on top of it now with some maintenance, but if you're not mechanically minded, you'd be stuffed. I know this is a generalisation, but I don't think the average bike shop mechanic would have been able to sort it either.
For walking the dogs when on the bike, we use leads called "The Buddy System" You have a belt which goes around your waist and the dog's leads attach to this with quick release buckles. The whippets did 12 miles around Hawkeshead and Esthwaite last Sunday and have gone through the centre of York during evening rush hour. I may be wrong but when we looked into it, we were led to believe it was illeagle to attach your dog directly to your bike ??

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny , my bike does not struggle on hills ( its a mountain bike ) , but I can't vouch for its efficiency compared to a crank drive .

Depends what you call a hill, we did 30 miles then had to ascend a 1 in 4 hill for half a mile Bosch drive just flew up it, how would yours cope? Batteries still OK for another 20 miles.

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[colinw]

It would cope perfectly well Lenny , Google KTM erace for reports on what my bike can do .

 

[colinw]

Aboard the bike, the thoughts about the nice finish are quickly replaced with a “wow” feeling. The 250-watt Panasonic motor accelerates the bike with plenty of torque and power, but at the same time works surprisingly unnoticeably. You won’t feel a sudden jolt as the motor engages, and when you reach the 25 km/h legal limit, the motor is cut out smoothly and harmoniously. We’ve rarely ridden such a finely set-up E-MTB. Especially on not-too-technical climbs, riding the KTM was a blast — we’ve never had so much fun on a hardtail!

The lack of overheating problems was also a positive surprise. Even at 25 °C air temperature, we had to ride on long and steep climbs at full power before the motor automatically decreased the power.

Broken Link Removed


Just an excerpt from an article about the erace , these bikes will do a lot more than most ordinary e bikes .

 

[Judge Mental]

Yes it is orange . it is the KTM erace .
I bought the bike to help me exercise whilst I had a broken leg .
To be honest the bike is surplus to requirements as we have bought dahon folders to go in the van .

They are very popular! you will sell that easy on gumtree/ebay or maybe in classifieds on here....

sold my Haibike Xduro recently...on ebay. Could have sold 30 of them such was the interest

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[colinw]

They are very popular! you will sell that easy on gumtree/ebay or maybe in classifieds on here....

sold my Haibike Xduro recently...on ebay. Could have sold 30 of them such was the interest

Thanks for that , I looked on eBay but there werent any on to compare .
I have just been out cleaning the bikes and my scooter , they were very dusty !
Maybe it's time to try the market .

 

[colinw]

Just found classified section on here , I can't believe I've not looked on there before !
I will take some pics of bike and try an ad.

 

[chaser]

Has anyone tried the gtech ones that are being advertised in the papers , seem to be a different system altogether, belt drive , no gears, but no price so must be dear
Www.gtech.co.uk/ebike

That will be a no then

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[injebreck99]

I cannot see the classifieds anymore.

 

[busby]

Mine overheats in summer on long steep hills but a couple of pints of cold lager soon sorts it out....BUSBY

 

[Bluemooner]

Mine overheats in summer on long steep hills but a couple of pints of cold lager soon sorts it out....BUSBY

Oh no you have to buy your bike beer

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[dabhand]

And the best e bike is.......?

 

[Judge Mental]

And the best e bike is.......?

For hill climbing a Bosch powered bike with latest performance drive..
Just back from italy and was climbing hills that most would have to push the bike up!

Make your own mind up though.......test rides cost nothing....

Broken Link Removed

 

[colinw]

And the best e bike is.......?

What is your budget / preferred style etc ?
With this info somebody will have more to go on

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[Judge Mental]

What is your budget / preferred style etc ?
With this info somebody will have more to go on

Bosch drive fitted to every style of bike imagineable!

 

[Vennwood]

I've posted on here before about the trouble I had with my Panasonic drive, the pawls in the crank freewheel stick, either causing the pedals to turn but not transmit any drive, or the motor ends up driving the pedals when you want to ease off, it feels a bit like riding a fixed wheel bike. The problem seems to be a lube fault and too soft a spring on the pawls, but it's a complete motor strip down to fix and I let it go too long the first time it happened and broke one of the pawls. They're almost impossible to obtain and I had to fit second hand ones. I'm on top of it now with some maintenance, but if you're not mechanically minded, you'd be stuffed. I know this is a generalisation, but I don't think the average bike shop mechanic would have been able to sort it either.
For walking the dogs when on the bike, we use leads called "The Buddy System" You have a belt which goes around your waist and the dog's leads attach to this with quick release buckles. The whippets did 12 miles around Hawkeshead and Esthwaite last Sunday and have gone through the centre of York during evening rush hour. I may be wrong but when we looked into it, we were led to believe it was illeagle to attach your dog directly to your bike ??

For years we used the "Springer dog walker" It clamps to your seat post, has a stainless steel U-shaped bar with a coil spring on the end with a short lead on the end. The dog is kept away from the wheels by the hoop and has a bit of freedom to move around and in the case of emergency (like falling off or the dog decides to go the other way) there is a automatic release so the dog doesn't pull you off the bike. You can adjust the release to suit the size of the dog. Ours cost £18.99 about 15 years ago but I see they are now around £30

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/agility_training/bike_leads/13166

 

[brynric]

Has anyone tried the gtech ones that are being advertised in the papers
Www.gtech.co.uk/ebike

My son married Nick Grey's niece. (Gtech inventor) He tried the bikes out one evening when they were round the house. He said it was a lot of fun with really smooth power and a light, good looking bike. But I think it was the first ebike he'd tried.
I think they're designed for the "non-cyclist", someone who hasn't been on bikes for a while or is getting back into it. The battery capacity seems pretty lightweight and the spec is limited, They are designed to be maintenance free and simple. The price is about £1700. Thats a similar price to some higher spec European bikes.
The Gtech let you have a 2 week trial of the bike and they usually have a pretty good support system.
I've been exploring the world of ebikes and for what I'm after I fancy the Bosch drive may be better. I like the look of the KTM Macina fun 9

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[dabhand]

What is your budget / preferred style etc ?
With this info somebody will have more to go on

Comfy mountain bike style for a large bloke and much smaller wifey, good bike fhat works with NO faffing about, lightweight and reliable more important than budget, having said that a bike made out of the lunar landing pods lightweight dump system at 20 grand a pop is a bit overkill if you know what I mean!

Btw I take it small wheel folding bikes are less preferable than the bigger wheel types?

 

[brynric]

Btw I take it small wheel folding bikes are less preferable than the bigger wheel types?

True, but it depends on your cycling needs. H and myself both managed to come off the smaller wheeled bikes at some stage. H. had a small wheeled bike for a while and it got her right back into biking but it was too "pottery" for her. She ended up with a standard sized MTB/hybrid which was much more comfortable, more stable and safer in the long run.

 

[Vennwood]

Having read through these posts with great interest I thought it might help others contemplating buying E-bikes with my experiences, particularly having been "bitten" years ago when we bought two electric bikes for less than £150

As I say it has been a few years since our last foray into electric bikes and to be fair a lot has happened since then. New companies have entered the market and battery technology has come along in leaps and bounds. We have been using our standard bikes more and more over the years however age and failing health is taking its toll and even the slightest hill looks like Mount Everest. So we decided to research this mode of transport again (but will be much more diligent than last time out).

Well after asking lots of questions and getting bogged down with some controversial answers, not to mention ruffling a few feathers along the way we finally managed to create a shortlist of possible bikes. Before I go into the bikes themselves I should lay out my rationale for choosing these bikes and hope this will assist other potential e-bikers in helping them make up their mind on what/which to go for.

First of all we considered the type of riding we do and our riding location(s), We don't leap off up mountain trails but mainly poodle along cycle tracks, tow paths or urban trips to town shopping so a full suspension mountain bike would not be required. Then I looked at weight/age and fitness levels to assess the position/type of power/torque needed. Even though we ride the same routes it was obvious from the start that we both needed different bikes as our weights are not the same.(not even close) We made note of reliability and problems experienced by users on various Bike forums in general then arrived at a rather long “shortlist” Sadly I then had to sort the bikes out by price range and inevitably cross off all the ones we liked as they were too expensive and way above our budget. This left us with a very shortlist of two or three which I attempted to drill down on in detail. Unfortunately this led to an adjustment in both budget and expectations as the bike didn't have everything we wanted for our price point. So back to the drawing board.

There are literally hundreds of e-Bikes around – each manufacturer favouring front, centre or rear motor driven and as expected everyone has their own preference. I decided, based on reviews and comments on the Pedelecs forum, that a centre crank drive motor was the one for me as they delivered higher torque, however my wife being much lighter a hub motor would be suitable. This made one bike a lot easier to buy as their are far more hub models than crank models. So bike weight, range and gears helped to narrow down the list even further. We steered clear of the cheaper brands having been "burnt before" and in my opinion they looked cheap and nasty in comparison to the quality brands and decided that a good quality secondhand bike would suffice for our needs. The Nexus hub gear system appealed as it was easier to operate and more precise than the derailer type and this very much appealed to my wife. This sorted one bike out easily.

As I mentioned earlier batteries have come a long way and output, charging cycles even size as well as technology as made impressive improvements over recent years. At the end of the day owners are really only interested in one thing - range. How far can I go on a single charge of the battery. It gives the manufacturers a real headache as there are too many variables - rider weight, riding style (fast or slow), type of terrain (how many hills) which power setting do you use etc. My rule of thumb answer is to half the claimed range and you won't be far off.

Next I had to decide on the make of motor – there are again many different manufacturers – mainly split into Chinese, European (Bosch Impulse), Japanese (Yamaha or Panasonic). Bosch complicate things even more by producing three types of crank drive – Active, Performance or Speed. I decided in my case that I preferred either Bosch or Yamaha as they appeared more integrated than many of the Chinese models. Now I'm really starting to narrow down the choice. I preferred the Bosch set up as it looked more professionally integrated however the torque on the Bosch Active appeared a little low on power. I therefore eliminated all Bosch Active line motors. The Bosch Performance and Yamaha motors have very similar output but again not straight forward. The Bosch has more flexibility, is fitted by over 50 manufacturers and can be updated by the dealer and has a better LCD display. On the downside it is considerably more expensive. Yamaha is less flexible, the display looks more flimsy, can't be updated and only fitted by one or two manufacturers in Europe but is cheaper. Another consideration was what happens when the battery goes flat - can you continue and pedal home.

Eventually I ended up with three or four bikes that suited, so that left me with the task of deciding which one and where I ran into most trouble with my fellow bikers. I was surprised to discover how limited bike warranties are in comparison with say a motor car warranty. Also it seems that Bike dealers look after their own customers very well but still could charge labour on any warranty work. Non customers would certainly have trouble with any warranty work. This played a large part of my deliberations as it was clear that any problems would have to be paid for one way or another. Another problem was where to buy. Do you delve into the eBay world of second hand with all its risks or do you stick to the authorised dealer network and buy new (or s/h through them). Again this was where I was at odds with my fellow bikers. Now the sensible thing to do would be to test ride each one to make sure all your deliberations were valid and you feel comfortable riding it. Now for me that wasn't too practical as all the ones I had shortlisted were either not in stock or located some 100+ miles away. I tried all the ones I thought would be close in ride and style and that would have to do for now.

In the end we decided on the Haibike Trekking RC with Yamaha motor and the Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite as they had all the “extras” such as lights, mudguards and a stand that we wanted. The Yamaha on paper has the most torque and several owners commented that the zero cadence came in instantly.

Next was where to buy them. Again I came under the hammer from fellow Pedelec members who shunned the likes of eBay or purchasing from European dealers in favour of "paying full price or close to full price" at local dealers, so got to thinking that maybe they are right and I would have to up my price budget again.

Then I thought hang on a minute....

1. On these dealer admissions I may have to pay labour on any possible repair work.
2. I don't live near to any of these dealers anyway so any work would incur significant travelling costs
3. In general buying from Germany is considerably cheaper than UK as bikes are the same price numerically however with the £ v € exchange of €1.40 - there is a significant difference off the bat. Then I discovered that German retailers are open to "negotiation" and discounts of 20% can be had. If buying end of model year bikes then offers of 50% discount can be had.

So I purchased a secondhand Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite and a demonstrator Haibike Trekking from a German dealer and saved a not too small fortune. Now in my book I can get a whole heap of work done for the money we saved and as a retired aircraft engineer I should be able to do some maintenance work myself. If we are really lucky we may not have any breakdowns and can use the savings on meals out.

Now how are we working out some weeks after our purchase. Well good and bad. First the bad. The Haibike was packed and sent from Germany however between the carriers (one German and one UK) the package was damaged so badly that the carriers held it at the UK warehouse for "investigation" and finally sent back to Germany. This presented a massive problem for me as the bike was in effect a secondhand bike and now I am waiting to see what happens as the dealer has sent me "another bike" It is scheduled to be delivered in early July. See below for results.

The Giant on the other hand is an absolute cracker. The quality is superb and it shows. The Nexus gears are great, easy to change whether pedaling or not. The gears are all enclosed and there is a chain guard so less chance of getting trousers caught in the chain. My wife loves the gear change - its so much more precise than a derailer. Without doubt we made the right choice regarding pedalec or hand throttle. Its just great - the more you pedal the more assistance you get. We haven't needed to use the "turbo mode" as the assistance given on "normal mode" or "eco mode" is just fine. It is a fairly heavy machine but we haven't had to carry it yet. The battery is proving extremely good. Given that we reckon it is about 5 years old so far it is holding its charge well. The control unit displays 5 LED's to show full to empty.we can travel 16 miles before one LED goes out so on that basis I reckon we should get at least 40 miles between charges, depending on how we use the power. The control unit is basic but functional and doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the latest models have. The panniers are proving very useful as is the substantial stand. Very pleased so far. Both bikes are very "pedalable" without power and can be ridden easily - in fact in comparing eco mode with power off on the flat you can hardly tell the difference.

The Haibike arrived on 3rd July and extremely pleased with it. To me it looks like a new bike as I guess the carriers insurance coughed up. The Yamaha crank drive is wonderful. Loads of torque at the start and climbs hills effortlessly. The ride is a bit different from my old MTB (a Viper FX2.0 with full suspension) maybe because it is a larger frame with larger wheels and cross tyres however after a mile or two I soon got used to it. The seat though will have to go. I changed the original Viper seat as I couldn't get used to the pointy thin seat that seems to be the norm on all bikes these days. I'm built for comfort so a change on the Haibike is due. The gears are a dream - very precise and positive with very little drama. The Trekking has a 10 gear rear and a 2 ring front. When riding there is little need to change at all as the Yamaha has plenty of power to cope with all but the steepest of hills. The display does indicate that when riding uphill without changing down the power used is much higher so I guess that would translate into fewer miles per battery charge.

Our first outing was a relatively flat 20 mile ride at an average speed of 10.5mph. (that was an increase of 4.5mph achieved over the same route on the Viper) from roughly the same effort on my part The battery level showed a drop of 3 bars out or 10 and the remaining distance available showed an encouraging 30 miles left. If I can get 40 miles between charges I will be well pleased. I had thought about getting a speed dongle but can't see the need so I will shelve that thought for now.

Pros:

1. Both are extremely well made when compared to other makes I looked at.

2. Yamaha motor appears much more powerful that the Bosch Active (torque wise)

3. Walking mode is a bonus and allows us to ride without pedaling up to 6kph

4. Built in lighting very effective

5. Great brakes - hydraulic disk and rim - both are very positive

6. Battery recharges relatively quickly between 3 and 4 hours respectively

Cons:

1. Saddle is too narrow for my rear end

2. Tyres not a forgiving as wider MTB tyres

3. Very nickable so need to watch carefully when parked. We used to have a quad bike in our camper and bought a very solid motor cycle chain and lock which we now use to secure the E-bikes. The chain and lock are Thatcham approved so the insurance company is happy. The downside is the weight of course but that's where the panniers come in. We don't remove the batteries as they have built in locks and if any thief goes to the trouble of stealing the batteries then they will need the bikes to go with them.

4. LCD screen on the Haibike while providing lots of info doesn't look as durable as the Bosch unit

Overall I'm over the moon with the Giant and Haibike and so far very impressed. I would recommend these to anyone looking for a general use bike. Buying from Germany - absolutely - I saved a considerable fortune that meant we now have bikes at a price we could not have even considered before and the retailer was very good. All documentation is in English, The manufacturer so far has been responsive when I asked questions. Only downside may happen if I get any warranty problems.

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[Don Quixote]

@Vennwood, that was a great read and thank you for posting. As they say food for thought..

 

[dabhand]

Having read through these posts with great interest I thought it might help others contemplating buying E-bikes with my experiences, particularly having been "bitten" years ago when we bought two electric bikes for less than £150

As I say it has been a few years since our last foray into electric bikes and to be fair a lot has happened since then. New companies have entered the market and battery technology has come along in leaps and bounds. We have been using our standard bikes more and more over the years however age and failing health is taking its toll and even the slightest hill looks like Mount Everest. So we decided to research this mode of transport again (but will be much more diligent than last time out).

Well after asking lots of questions and getting bogged down with some controversial answers, not to mention ruffling a few feathers along the way we finally managed to create a shortlist of possible bikes. Before I go into the bikes themselves I should lay out my rationale for choosing these bikes and hope this will assist other potential e-bikers in helping them make up their mind on what/which to go for.

First of all we considered the type of riding we do and our riding location(s), We don't leap off up mountain trails but mainly poodle along cycle tracks, tow paths or urban trips to town shopping so a full suspension mountain bike would not be required. Then I looked at weight/age and fitness levels to assess the position/type of power/torque needed. Even though we ride the same routes it was obvious from the start that we both needed different bikes as our weights are not the same.(not even close) We made note of reliability and problems experienced by users on various Bike forums in general then arrived at a rather long “shortlist” Sadly I then had to sort the bikes out by price range and inevitably cross off all the ones we liked as they were too expensive and way above our budget. This left us with a very shortlist of two or three which I attempted to drill down on in detail. Unfortunately this led to an adjustment in both budget and expectations as the bike didn't have everything we wanted for our price point. So back to the drawing board.

There are literally hundreds of e-Bikes around – each manufacturer favouring front, centre or rear motor driven and as expected everyone has their own preference. I decided, based on reviews and comments on the Pedelecs forum, that a centre crank drive motor was the one for me as they delivered higher torque, however my wife being much lighter a hub motor would be suitable. This made one bike a lot easier to buy as their are far more hub models than crank models. So bike weight, range and gears helped to narrow down the list even further. We steered clear of the cheaper brands having been "burnt before" and in my opinion they looked cheap and nasty in comparison to the quality brands and decided that a good quality secondhand bike would suffice for our needs. The Nexus hub gear system appealed as it was easier to operate and more precise than the derailer type and this very much appealed to my wife. This sorted one bike out easily.

As I mentioned earlier batteries have come a long way and output, charging cycles even size as well as technology as made impressive improvements over recent years. At the end of the day owners are really only interested in one thing - range. How far can I go on a single charge of the battery. It gives the manufacturers a real headache as there are too many variables - rider weight, riding style (fast or slow), type of terrain (how many hills) which power setting do you use etc. My rule of thumb answer is to half the claimed range and you won't be far off.

Next I had to decide on the make of motor – there are again many different manufacturers – mainly split into Chinese, European (Bosch Impulse), Japanese (Yamaha or Panasonic). Bosch complicate things even more by producing three types of crank drive – Active, Performance or Speed. I decided in my case that I preferred either Bosch or Yamaha as they appeared more integrated than many of the Chinese models. Now I'm really starting to narrow down the choice. I preferred the Bosch set up as it looked more professionally integrated however the torque on the Bosch Active appeared a little low on power. I therefore eliminated all Bosch Active line motors. The Bosch Performance and Yamaha motors have very similar output but again not straight forward. The Bosch has more flexibility, is fitted by over 50 manufacturers and can be updated by the dealer and has a better LCD display. On the downside it is considerably more expensive. Yamaha is less flexible, the display looks more flimsy, can't be updated and only fitted by one or two manufacturers in Europe but is cheaper. Another consideration was what happens when the battery goes flat - can you continue and pedal home.

Eventually I ended up with three or four bikes that suited, so that left me with the task of deciding which one and where I ran into most trouble with my fellow bikers. I was surprised to discover how limited bike warranties are in comparison with say a motor car warranty. Also it seems that Bike dealers look after their own customers very well but still could charge labour on any warranty work. Non customers would certainly have trouble with any warranty work. This played a large part of my deliberations as it was clear that any problems would have to be paid for one way or another. Another problem was where to buy. Do you delve into the eBay world of second hand with all its risks or do you stick to the authorised dealer network and buy new (or s/h through them). Again this was where I was at odds with my fellow bikers. Now the sensible thing to do would be to test ride each one to make sure all your deliberations were valid and you feel comfortable riding it. Now for me that wasn't too practical as all the ones I had shortlisted were either not in stock or located some 100+ miles away. I tried all the ones I thought would be close in ride and style and that would have to do for now.

In the end we decided on the Haibike Trekking RC with Yamaha motor and the Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite as they had all the “extras” such as lights, mudguards and a stand that we wanted. The Yamaha on paper has the most torque and several owners commented that the zero cadence came in instantly.

Next was where to buy them. Again I came under the hammer from fellow Pedelec members who shunned the likes of eBay or purchasing from European dealers in favour of "paying full price or close to full price" at local dealers, so got to thinking that maybe they are right and I would have to up my price budget again.

Then I thought hang on a minute....

1. On these dealer admissions I may have to pay labour on any possible repair work.
2. I don't live near to any of these dealers anyway so any work would incur significant travelling costs
3. In general buying from Germany is considerably cheaper than UK as bikes are the same price numerically however with the £ v € exchange of €1.40 - there is a significant difference off the bat. Then I discovered that German retailers are open to "negotiation" and discounts of 20% can be had. If buying end of model year bikes then offers of 50% discount can be had.

So I purchased a secondhand Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite and a demonstrator Haibike Trekking from a German dealer and saved a not too small fortune. Now in my book I can get a whole heap of work done for the money we saved and as a retired aircraft engineer I should be able to do some maintenance work myself. If we are really lucky we may not have any breakdowns and can use the savings on meals out.

Now how are we working out some weeks after our purchase. Well good and bad. First the bad. The Haibike was packed and sent from Germany however between the carriers (one German and one UK) the package was damaged so badly that the carriers held it at the UK warehouse for "investigation" and finally sent back to Germany. This presented a massive problem for me as the bike was in effect a secondhand bike and now I am waiting to see what happens as the dealer has sent me "another bike" It is scheduled to be delivered in early July. See below for results.

The Giant on the other hand is an absolute cracker. The quality is superb and it shows. The Nexus gears are great, easy to change whether pedaling or not. The gears are all enclosed and there is a chain guard so less chance of getting trousers caught in the chain. My wife loves the gear change - its so much more precise than a derailer. Without doubt we made the right choice regarding pedalec or hand throttle. Its just great - the more you pedal the more assistance you get. We haven't needed to use the "turbo mode" as the assistance given on "normal mode" or "eco mode" is just fine. It is a fairly heavy machine but we haven't had to carry it yet. The battery is proving extremely good. Given that we reckon it is about 5 years old so far it is holding its charge well. The control unit displays 5 LED's to show full to empty.we can travel 16 miles before one LED goes out so on that basis I reckon we should get at least 40 miles between charges, depending on how we use the power. The control unit is basic but functional and doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the latest models have. The panniers are proving very useful as is the substantial stand. Very pleased so far. Both bikes are very "pedalable" without power and can be ridden easily - in fact in comparing eco mode with power off on the flat you can hardly tell the difference.

The Haibike arrived on 3rd July and extremely pleased with it. To me it looks like a new bike as I guess the carriers insurance coughed up. The Yamaha crank drive is wonderful. Loads of torque at the start and climbs hills effortlessly. The ride is a bit different from my old MTB (a Viper FX2.0 with full suspension) maybe because it is a larger frame with larger wheels and cross tyres however after a mile or two I soon got used to it. The seat though will have to go. I changed the original Viper seat as I couldn't get used to the pointy thin seat that seems to be the norm on all bikes these days. I'm built for comfort so a change on the Haibike is due. The gears are a dream - very precise and positive with very little drama. The Trekking has a 10 gear rear and a 2 ring front. When riding there is little need to change at all as the Yamaha has plenty of power to cope with all but the steepest of hills. The display does indicate that when riding uphill without changing down the power used is much higher so I guess that would translate into fewer miles per battery charge.

Our first outing was a relatively flat 20 mile ride at an average speed of 10.5mph. (that was an increase of 4.5mph achieved over the same route on the Viper) from roughly the same effort on my part The battery level showed a drop of 3 bars out or 10 and the remaining distance available showed an encouraging 30 miles left. If I can get 40 miles between charges I will be well pleased. I had thought about getting a speed dongle but can't see the need so I will shelve that thought for now.

Pros:

1. Both are extremely well made when compared to other makes I looked at.

2. Yamaha motor appears much more powerful that the Bosch Active (torque wise)

3. Walking mode is a bonus and allows us to ride without pedaling up to 6kph

4. Built in lighting very effective

5. Great brakes - hydraulic disk and rim - both are very positive

6. Battery recharges relatively quickly between 3 and 4 hours respectively

Cons:

1. Saddle is too narrow for my rear end

2. Tyres not a forgiving as wider MTB tyres

3. Very nickable so need to watch carefully when parked. We used to have a quad bike in our camper and bought a very solid motor cycle chain and lock which we now use to secure the E-bikes. The chain and lock are Thatcham approved so the insurance company is happy. The downside is the weight of course but that's where the panniers come in. We don't remove the batteries as they have built in locks and if any thief goes to the trouble of stealing the batteries then they will need the bikes to go with them.

4. LCD screen on the Haibike while providing lots of info doesn't look as durable as the Bosch unit

Overall I'm over the moon with the Giant and Haibike and so far very impressed. I would recommend these to anyone looking for a general use bike. Buying from Germany - absolutely - I saved a considerable fortune that meant we now have bikes at a price we could not have even considered before and the retailer was very good. All documentation is in English, The manufacturer so far has been responsive when I asked questions. Only downside may happen if I get any warranty problems.

Having read through these posts with great interest I thought it might help others contemplating buying E-bikes with my experiences, particularly having been "bitten" years ago when we bought two electric bikes for less than £150

As I say it has been a few years since our last foray into electric bikes and to be fair a lot has happened since then. New companies have entered the market and battery technology has come along in leaps and bounds. We have been using our standard bikes more and more over the years however age and failing health is taking its toll and even the slightest hill looks like Mount Everest. So we decided to research this mode of transport again (but will be much more diligent than last time out).

Well after asking lots of questions and getting bogged down with some controversial answers, not to mention ruffling a few feathers along the way we finally managed to create a shortlist of possible bikes. Before I go into the bikes themselves I should lay out my rationale for choosing these bikes and hope this will assist other potential e-bikers in helping them make up their mind on what/which to go for.

First of all we considered the type of riding we do and our riding location(s), We don't leap off up mountain trails but mainly poodle along cycle tracks, tow paths or urban trips to town shopping so a full suspension mountain bike would not be required. Then I looked at weight/age and fitness levels to assess the position/type of power/torque needed. Even though we ride the same routes it was obvious from the start that we both needed different bikes as our weights are not the same.(not even close) We made note of reliability and problems experienced by users on various Bike forums in general then arrived at a rather long “shortlist” Sadly I then had to sort the bikes out by price range and inevitably cross off all the ones we liked as they were too expensive and way above our budget. This left us with a very shortlist of two or three which I attempted to drill down on in detail. Unfortunately this led to an adjustment in both budget and expectations as the bike didn't have everything we wanted for our price point. So back to the drawing board.

There are literally hundreds of e-Bikes around – each manufacturer favouring front, centre or rear motor driven and as expected everyone has their own preference. I decided, based on reviews and comments on the Pedelecs forum, that a centre crank drive motor was the one for me as they delivered higher torque, however my wife being much lighter a hub motor would be suitable. This made one bike a lot easier to buy as their are far more hub models than crank models. So bike weight, range and gears helped to narrow down the list even further. We steered clear of the cheaper brands having been "burnt before" and in my opinion they looked cheap and nasty in comparison to the quality brands and decided that a good quality secondhand bike would suffice for our needs. The Nexus hub gear system appealed as it was easier to operate and more precise than the derailer type and this very much appealed to my wife. This sorted one bike out easily.

As I mentioned earlier batteries have come a long way and output, charging cycles even size as well as technology as made impressive improvements over recent years. At the end of the day owners are really only interested in one thing - range. How far can I go on a single charge of the battery. It gives the manufacturers a real headache as there are too many variables - rider weight, riding style (fast or slow), type of terrain (how many hills) which power setting do you use etc. My rule of thumb answer is to half the claimed range and you won't be far off.

Next I had to decide on the make of motor – there are again many different manufacturers – mainly split into Chinese, European (Bosch Impulse), Japanese (Yamaha or Panasonic). Bosch complicate things even more by producing three types of crank drive – Active, Performance or Speed. I decided in my case that I preferred either Bosch or Yamaha as they appeared more integrated than many of the Chinese models. Now I'm really starting to narrow down the choice. I preferred the Bosch set up as it looked more professionally integrated however the torque on the Bosch Active appeared a little low on power. I therefore eliminated all Bosch Active line motors. The Bosch Performance and Yamaha motors have very similar output but again not straight forward. The Bosch has more flexibility, is fitted by over 50 manufacturers and can be updated by the dealer and has a better LCD display. On the downside it is considerably more expensive. Yamaha is less flexible, the display looks more flimsy, can't be updated and only fitted by one or two manufacturers in Europe but is cheaper. Another consideration was what happens when the battery goes flat - can you continue and pedal home.

Eventually I ended up with three or four bikes that suited, so that left me with the task of deciding which one and where I ran into most trouble with my fellow bikers. I was surprised to discover how limited bike warranties are in comparison with say a motor car warranty. Also it seems that Bike dealers look after their own customers very well but still could charge labour on any warranty work. Non customers would certainly have trouble with any warranty work. This played a large part of my deliberations as it was clear that any problems would have to be paid for one way or another. Another problem was where to buy. Do you delve into the eBay world of second hand with all its risks or do you stick to the authorised dealer network and buy new (or s/h through them). Again this was where I was at odds with my fellow bikers. Now the sensible thing to do would be to test ride each one to make sure all your deliberations were valid and you feel comfortable riding it. Now for me that wasn't too practical as all the ones I had shortlisted were either not in stock or located some 100+ miles away. I tried all the ones I thought would be close in ride and style and that would have to do for now.

In the end we decided on the Haibike Trekking RC with Yamaha motor and the Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite as they had all the “extras” such as lights, mudguards and a stand that we wanted. The Yamaha on paper has the most torque and several owners commented that the zero cadence came in instantly.

Next was where to buy them. Again I came under the hammer from fellow Pedelec members who shunned the likes of eBay or purchasing from European dealers in favour of "paying full price or close to full price" at local dealers, so got to thinking that maybe they are right and I would have to up my price budget again.

Then I thought hang on a minute....

1. On these dealer admissions I may have to pay labour on any possible repair work.
2. I don't live near to any of these dealers anyway so any work would incur significant travelling costs
3. In general buying from Germany is considerably cheaper than UK as bikes are the same price numerically however with the £ v € exchange of €1.40 - there is a significant difference off the bat. Then I discovered that German retailers are open to "negotiation" and discounts of 20% can be had. If buying end of model year bikes then offers of 50% discount can be had.

So I purchased a secondhand Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite and a demonstrator Haibike Trekking from a German dealer and saved a not too small fortune. Now in my book I can get a whole heap of work done for the money we saved and as a retired aircraft engineer I should be able to do some maintenance work myself. If we are really lucky we may not have any breakdowns and can use the savings on meals out.

Now how are we working out some weeks after our purchase. Well good and bad. First the bad. The Haibike was packed and sent from Germany however between the carriers (one German and one UK) the package was damaged so badly that the carriers held it at the UK warehouse for "investigation" and finally sent back to Germany. This presented a massive problem for me as the bike was in effect a secondhand bike and now I am waiting to see what happens as the dealer has sent me "another bike" It is scheduled to be delivered in early July. See below for results.

The Giant on the other hand is an absolute cracker. The quality is superb and it shows. The Nexus gears are great, easy to change whether pedaling or not. The gears are all enclosed and there is a chain guard so less chance of getting trousers caught in the chain. My wife loves the gear change - its so much more precise than a derailer. Without doubt we made the right choice regarding pedalec or hand throttle. Its just great - the more you pedal the more assistance you get. We haven't needed to use the "turbo mode" as the assistance given on "normal mode" or "eco mode" is just fine. It is a fairly heavy machine but we haven't had to carry it yet. The battery is proving extremely good. Given that we reckon it is about 5 years old so far it is holding its charge well. The control unit displays 5 LED's to show full to empty.we can travel 16 miles before one LED goes out so on that basis I reckon we should get at least 40 miles between charges, depending on how we use the power. The control unit is basic but functional and doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the latest models have. The panniers are proving very useful as is the substantial stand. Very pleased so far. Both bikes are very "pedalable" without power and can be ridden easily - in fact in comparing eco mode with power off on the flat you can hardly tell the difference.

The Haibike arrived on 3rd July and extremely pleased with it. To me it looks like a new bike as I guess the carriers insurance coughed up. The Yamaha crank drive is wonderful. Loads of torque at the start and climbs hills effortlessly. The ride is a bit different from my old MTB (a Viper FX2.0 with full suspension) maybe because it is a larger frame with larger wheels and cross tyres however after a mile or two I soon got used to it. The seat though will have to go. I changed the original Viper seat as I couldn't get used to the pointy thin seat that seems to be the norm on all bikes these days. I'm built for comfort so a change on the Haibike is due. The gears are a dream - very precise and positive with very little drama. The Trekking has a 10 gear rear and a 2 ring front. When riding there is little need to change at all as the Yamaha has plenty of power to cope with all but the steepest of hills. The display does indicate that when riding uphill without changing down the power used is much higher so I guess that would translate into fewer miles per battery charge.

Our first outing was a relatively flat 20 mile ride at an average speed of 10.5mph. (that was an increase of 4.5mph achieved over the same route on the Viper) from roughly the same effort on my part The battery level showed a drop of 3 bars out or 10 and the remaining distance available showed an encouraging 30 miles left. If I can get 40 miles between charges I will be well pleased. I had thought about getting a speed dongle but can't see the need so I will shelve that thought for now.

Pros:

1. Both are extremely well made when compared to other makes I looked at.

2. Yamaha motor appears much more powerful that the Bosch Active (torque wise)

3. Walking mode is a bonus and allows us to ride without pedaling up to 6kph

4. Built in lighting very effective

5. Great brakes - hydraulic disk and rim - both are very positive

6. Battery recharges relatively quickly between 3 and 4 hours respectively

Cons:

1. Saddle is too narrow for my rear end

2. Tyres not a forgiving as wider MTB tyres

3. Very nickable so need to watch carefully when parked. We used to have a quad bike in our camper and bought a very solid motor cycle chain and lock which we now use to secure the E-bikes. The chain and lock are Thatcham approved so the insurance company is happy. The downside is the weight of course but that's where the panniers come in. We don't remove the batteries as they have built in locks and if any thief goes to the trouble of stealing the batteries then they will need the bikes to go with them.

4. LCD screen on the Haibike while providing lots of info doesn't look as durable as the Bosch unit

Overall I'm over the moon with the Giant and Haibike and so far very impressed. I would recommend these to anyone looking for a general use bike. Buying from Germany - absolutely - I saved a considerable fortune that meant we now have bikes at a price we could not have even considered before and the retailer was very good. All documentation is in English, The manufacturer so far has been responsive when I asked questions. Only downside may happen if I get any warranty problems.

What a great post very informative regarding your experience. Would be interested to know which bike you ( and others) would have chosen if cost wasn't a consideration. And..... Do you need mains electric to charge them, what would be the current draw if you used an inverter?

 

[bellabee]

Thanks, @Vennwood . Brilliant post. Going to re-read it, carefully.

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[Teuchter]

Vennwood - thank you - great post

 

[Vennwood]

Cost is always a consideration unless you have won the lottery big time. Without a doubt there are some super bikes out there. Our son's boss has a carbon fibre Ebike that weighs less than 10kgs including battery however it cost him around £10K Hard to justify for pedaling down a tow path. Haven't tried charging from the inverter yet but not anticipating any problems I will let you know

 

[dabhand]

Cost is always a consideration unless you have won the lottery big time. Without a doubt there are some super bikes out there. Our son's boss has a carbon fibre Ebike that weighs less than 10kgs including battery however it cost him around £10K Hard to justify for pedaling down a tow path. Haven't tried charging from the inverter yet but not anticipating any problems I will let you know

For 10k I think I would want one that could fold up and fit in my pocket, and make tea and toast whilst out and about, actually that's still expensive toast, easier to fit a toaster to a cheaper model!

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