EHU Hookup convertor for France (1 Viewer)

[cmcardle75]

Reverse polarity cannot possibly cause a problem to a 12 volt TV nor a 230 volt TV
Reversing the polarity simply means that your switches will be in the neutral conductor instead of the line conductor. Your equipment does not know one from the other.
Unless you are going to take your electrics to pieces while it is LIVE polarity is irrelevant

Although largely (but not always) true in terms of correct operation of equipment, putting the protection (i.e. fuses and breakers) on the neutral instead of the live is actually quite dangerous. Even if the protection trips, the equipment is still connected to the live.

Even worse, in the event of an earth fault, the current will continue to flow, possibly causing shock or fire.

 

[Jaws]

Although largely (but not always) true in terms of correct operation of equipment, putting the protection (i.e. fuses and breakers) on the neutral instead of the live is actually quite dangerous. Even if the protection trips, the equipment is still connected to the live.

Even worse, in the event of an earth fault, the current will continue to flow, possibly causing shock or fire.

Only if the person is touching a separate, correct feed/earth at the same time as a metal 'something' plugged in to the reversed feed.

Although some folk have an external 220v socket it is still incredibly difficult to get in to the situation you are likely to get a shock.

Bit lost re the fire bit.. Could you explain a scenario where that could happen ?

 

[cmcardle75]

Only if the person is touching a separate, correct feed/earth at the same time as a metal 'something' plugged in to the reversed feed.

Although some folk have an external 220v socket it is still incredibly difficult to get in to the situation you are likely to get a shock.

Bit lost re the fire bit.. Could you explain a scenario where that could happen ?

OK, the scenario is that the system is wired up with the breakers in the neutral. This has probably happened on the dodgy campsite wiring as well.

Due to a fault in a non-double insulated appliance (i.e. fridge or air con unit etc), the appliance's supposed NEUTRAL touches the earthed case of the appliance. Unfortunately, this neutral is actually connected to the live. This results in a large current flowing. However, as there is no breaker or fuse on this line, the current continues the flow. The breaker in the caravan is ineffective. The miswired breaker on the campsite is ineffective.

What happens next depends on how good the campsite earth is. If it is good only ohm's law on the long supply cables limits the current, probably to around 1000A or so. During this time, all exposed metal parts in the caravan are live, including probably the chassis, door handles and skin if you have aluminium construction (rare, I know, but mine is aluminium). You don't need to stick your fingers inside a socket to get a shock.

However, the fire risk is in reality much more serious than the shock risk as your cabling and the appliance are not rated for 1000A and will soon start to catch fire. Far more people die in electrical fires than by electric shock.

So get the polarity right, so that you aren't bypassing the circuit breakers. Also, fit an RCD, which doesn't care about polarity and will cut the power in an earth fault even if the campsite is miswired and you haven't corrected it, although this won't protect against a fault in the EHU cable itself, unless you find one that can be fitted at the campsite end.

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[Jaws]

Okkkkkkkkkkk...

While what you say is perfectly true, it is still not terribly likely..

Surely the easiest and CORRECT thing to do is to check the earth is not leaking to anything anyway ?
Those who have a hab check should be fine as that SHOULD be done anyway, but those who do not just get their handy multi meter and go between the earth and the return pin ( whilst NOT on hook I hasten to point out )

If there is a leak, no matter how the connection is made, it is unsafe, so a quick check takes away the guess work and ensure no issues.

 

[cmcardle75]

Okkkkkkkkkkk...

While what you say is perfectly true, it is still not terribly likely..

Surely the easiest and CORRECT thing to do is to check the earth is not leaking to anything anyway ?
Those who have a hab check should be fine as that SHOULD be done anyway, but those who do not just get their handy multi meter and go between the earth and the return pin ( whilst NOT on hook I hasten to point out )

If there is a leak, no matter how the connection is made, it is unsafe, so a quick check takes away the guess work and ensure no issues.

It is reasonably likely, especially in a vehicle that vibrates a lot when moving. Given that a fault, if it develops, will immediately result in a massive surge of power (at least when presented with a reversed polarity) and either destruction, or the tripping of the breaker, a yearly check is less likely to catch it than being found in actual use.

 

[Jaws]

So where is it written you can only do a check yearly ?
Surely if you are worried about such things it makes sense to check regularly ?

Me, I am quite happy to just plug and go.. But that is just me...

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[Techno]

Although largely (but not always) true in terms of correct operation of equipment, putting the protection (i.e. fuses and breakers) on the neutral instead of the live is actually quite dangerous. Even if the protection trips, the equipment is still connected to the live.

Even worse, in the event of an earth fault, the current will continue to flow, possibly causing shock or fire.

RCD and RCBO are double pole disconnection devices. ALL vans without exceptioin should have this protection. If it hasn't get it sorted!

 

[ukbill]

just get the crossover connector and have done with it

 

[Techno]

Many French vans including my Rapido are built with only a double pole circuit breaker which feeds a bus rail that all the radials connect to.
It cost me less than £20 delivered for a 30ma RCD to protect the lot.

Plenty of room to fit it in the same enclosure

So in this set up the RCD provides earth leakage protection whilst the DP circuit breaker provides over current protection.

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[cmcardle75]

So where is it written you can only do a check yearly ?
Surely if you are worried about such things it makes sense to check regularly ?

Me, I am quite happy to just plug and go.. But that is just me...

Regularly isn't enough. It will burn the moment it goes wrong (or when you next plug in).

 

[cmcardle75]

So in this set up the RCD provides earth leakage protection whilst the DP circuit breaker provides over current protection.

As far as I'm concerned, a system designed like that is almost as safe with reverse polarity as with normal polarity and certainly well above the threshold I'd consider safe.

I can believe it is French as so many of their campsites don't bother checking the polarity.

 

[Sidney]

Don't buy the ANGLED type plug. I have found points too deep to successefully connect.
Straight is a safer bet!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350684389795?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

AS cheap as chips before any discounts! and the seller accepts offers ;-)

Agreed! I carry a 15 metre lead with a straight schuko plug together with a 10 metre and 25 metre leads with a PCE 16 amp plug. That pretty much covers all bases.

Oh and don't forget to take a double or triple PCE adapter if you are staying on aires with less sockets than parking spaces.

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[Techno]

Prices for these vary dramatically, just buy the cheapest inc P&P
Link Removed

 

[Sidney]

There is a lot of sitting on the fence here.

Surely someone has an opinion about the possibility of encountering reverse polarity in foreign campsites!


:Blush:

 

[Techno]

I never pay any attention to it. As I said if your RCD operates with the test button you are protected.
IF you don't have an RCD or RCBO then this is a better investment than crossover plugs.

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[Sidney]

I never pay any attention to it. As I said if your RCD operates with the test button you are protected.
IF you don't have an RCD or RCBO then this is a better investment than crossover plugs

And a lot less sodding around!

 

[Ed Excel]

As far as I'm concerned, a system designed like that is almost as safe with reverse polarity as with normal polarity and certainly well above the threshold I'd consider safe.

I can believe it is French as so many of their campsites don't bother checking the polarity.

That's the very reason the French, and most other continental MHs, have Double Pole protection devices fitted, so they don't have to be concerned about polarity. And it's why you'll get a refusal if you ask a Frenchman to swop his poles. He doesn't consider there's anything wrong.

Traditionally, in the UK, we have used Single Pole devices, and accessories, so it may be an issue for UK vans, of a certain age.

 

[Jaws]

Regularly isn't enough. It will burn the moment it goes wrong (or when you next plug in).

Fine.. do as you see fit.. I am a mug who is almost certainly going to catch fire to himself, the van, the vans around me which will proly start a wild fire that will spread and end up devouring the world..Oh.. or the other thing...

As a by the by anyone got any figures for caravan and motorhome fires in France , agin say, road accidents...

I think perhaps I will just bail out on this one.. As someone who is a mere electronics design engineer ( PHd ) I know when I am beaten :thumb:

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[Peter & Elaine]

Fine.. do as you see fit.. I am a mug who is almost certainly going to catch fire to himself, the van, the vans around me which will proly start a wild fire that will spread and end up devouring the world..Oh.. or the other thing...

As a by the by anyone got any figures for caravan and motorhome fires in France , agin say, road accidents...

I think perhaps I will just bail out on this one.. As someone who is a mere electronics design engineer ( PHd ) I know when I am beaten :thumb:

In the words of ma old dad
Tha can lead a hoss to water but tha can't make it sup it

 

[cmcardle75]

Fine.. do as you see fit.. I am a mug who is almost certainly going to catch fire to himself, the van, the vans around me which will proly start a wild fire that will spread and end up devouring the world..Oh.. or the other thing...

As a by the by anyone got any figures for caravan and motorhome fires in France , agin say, road accidents...

I think perhaps I will just bail out on this one.. As someone who is a mere electronics design engineer ( PHd ) I know when I am beaten :thumb:

I imagine electrical fires are quite rare, particularly as they all have DP breakers and RCDs. Even modern British ones with SP breakers will still have DP RCDs, which will catch the vast majority of problems. The SP breaker will provide only overload and live-neutral short protection and no earth fault protection. However, that is exactly what happens with a rural house TT earth with the correct polarity anyway.

Anyone thinking of using RCBOs instead of RCDs should be careful, though. The narrow units are typically SP breaking and, thus, are chocolate teapots when it comes to reverse polarity earth faults. There needs to be a DP RCD or DP RCBO, which is quite rare.

All this has reminded me to replace the fusebox in mine with a proper consumer unit. Was converted to 240V in 1981. Given a "garage" IP rated 2 way consumer unit with RCD is only 20 quid, I don't really have an excuse not to.

 

[Chockswahay]

Don't buy the ANGLED type plug. I have found points too deep to successefully connect.
Straight is a safer bet!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350684389795?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

AS cheap as chips before any discounts! and the seller accepts offers ;-)

Thanks Techno100.........I was about to order one the other day when my wife saw the same thing elsewhere on Ebay being sold privately (not needed).........she put in a bid.........BINGO......got it for less than £4 delivered...........result :thumb::thumb:

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