EGR valve blanking/cheating

Techno

Techno

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12,905
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Rapido 7090F 3 litre 160
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May 2010
Open discussion on the pro's con's of this from your personal experience or that of second party knowledge
......................................?
 
Probably need the ECU/PCM etc rewriting to delete the ensuing fault codes permanantly.
the sensor may be able to be overridden using the correct resister but not sure.

Why blank/bypass it ?
 
The general feedback (interweb) suggests that where engines are driven lightly for economy or just general leisure like we do that the inlet manifold gets gummed up from recirculated gases.
As I understand it with my 3 litre Iveco the solution is as simple as blocking the vacuum pipe that operates the valve with no other issues.
Result...... cleaner burning better fuel economy.

EDIT no fault codes as the ECU believes it has done it's job
 
Techno......

Step....away.....from......the........toolbox!!!!!!

If it ain't broke don't try and fix it!!!!!!

Just my humble opinion!!!:)

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Done a few vehicles, the transit diesel engines have 3 different types of EGR one can be fully blocked, one needs a small hole leaving and the third cant be blanked at all as it throws ecu codes if blocked. Im sure earlier fiat EGR valves on the 2.8jtd can be blanked but they seem to be quite reliable without so not worth blanking. You have more issued on the more complicated EGR systems on the later DPF engines as they have more sensors and sometimes cant be messed with.

Generally the EGR valves on motorhomes should be more reliable as trips are usually long and at higher speed. on diesel cars that do short trips the EGR and manifold will gunge up a lot more.

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Blanking off the EGR will NOT cause an MOT failure! EGR works at higher engine speeds and light throttle i.e cruising and this simply cannot be replicated without putting the power unit under load. It can, under some circumstances give better fuel consumption and a more responsive engine. My race car (Mazda MX5) had EGR fitted but I've removed it along with the CAT and fitted individual throttle bodies and yet it can still pass the MOT emissions test.

D.
 
pappajohn said:
Emissions....... at the expense of power and economy and no other reason.
Click to expand...
While that is true, simply blanking them can have consequences.
Been in the game 30+ years and see problems all the time, an w211 e320 yesterday that someone "blanked"....
While it can be done in some cases it may be necessary to re-map to solve.
Same as these dreaded DPF's.... We remove tons of them and re-map the ECU to "disregard" them, still pass the emissions and all is good.... But removing them without doing so is asking for bother.
But as the OP said, vacuum actuators on the valve could be blocked, but if flow rates are sensed incorrectly they can cause the car to go into "limp mode" ..... Bloody cars have got serious since I was a lad !
 
Techno100 said:
The general feedback (interweb) suggests that where engines are driven lightly for economy or just general leisure like we do that the inlet manifold gets gummed up from recirculated gases.
As I understand it with my 3 litre Iveco the solution is as simple as blocking the vacuum pipe that operates the valve with no other issues.
Result...... cleaner burning better fuel economy.

EDIT no fault codes as the ECU believes it has done it's job
Click to expand...

Sorry Andy...was thinking DPF at the time......that does need ECU delete, or it does on Chrysler diesels.
 
dave newell lvs said:
Blanking off the EGR will NOT cause an MOT failure! EGR works at higher engine speeds and light throttle i.e cruising and this simply cannot be replicated without putting the power unit under load. It can, under some circumstances give better fuel consumption and a more responsive engine. My race car (Mazda MX5) had EGR fitted but I've removed it along with the CAT and fitted individual throttle bodies and yet it can still pass the MOT emissions test.

D.
Click to expand...

Oh no!

You've done it now Dave!
Andy (Techno) will be on the phone to Dave for a prototype diesel Emerald ECU and a rolling road session!!!!:)

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hi andy (techno) ive read a good deal on the transit forum on the subject.. the mk6 lads just blanked them off but the mk 7 has a sensor in the manifold that responds to the operating egr valve and it cant just be blanked without causing problems. as papajohn said it requires a re write of the map to delete that function before blanking but I think you still need to leave it in place for mot purposes, as its original fit.
why do it, well some vans get well carboned up in the inlet side and go through egr valves frequently, but others have done thousands of miles with no prob.. I think its got something to do with the way they are driven and type of use , but that's just my take..
I intend taking the inlet side off my van this summer to see how bad the build up is , but I have cleaned the pressure sensor in the manifold about 3 times in 4 year and each time it was well caked up.
if its really bad I may get it deleted and blank off.
I cleared some fault codes the other day and one of them related to possible sticking egr, so hoping I can get a look before it becomes a problem
 
Thank you all for your contributions so far.

I believe this piece of foolery is for 2006 and pre 2006 with air flow meters
Broken Link Removed
 
The EGR on my Renault Megane 1.9 cdi had to be replaced yesterday, due to carbon build up it had "clogged up" and striped two teeth on a cog and due this it was "hunting" and making very strange noises, especially when I turned the engine off!!! Total bill £360.00 .....the garage also looks after my motorhome and says it is unlikely to happen to this as the MH is used for long journeys and heat in the engine stops a dangerous build of carbon...is this correct??
 
Baggers53 said:
and making very strange noises, especially when I turned the engine off!!!
Click to expand...
on switch off I think the egr valve goes through a self clean cycle. the transit does, so that may account for the noise, its trying too and cant cause its knackered
 
jezport said:
Done a few vehicles, the transit diesel engines have 3 different types of EGR one can be fully blocked, one needs a small hole leaving and the third cant be blanked at all as it throws ecu codes if blocked. Im sure earlier fiat EGR valves on the 2.8jtd can be blanked but they seem to be quite reliable without so not worth blanking. You have more issued on the more complicated EGR systems on the later DPF engines as they have more sensors and sometimes cant be messed with.

Generally the EGR valves on motorhomes should be more reliable as trips are usually long and at higher speed. on diesel cars that do short trips the EGR and manifold will gunge up a lot more.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree.
Motorhomers in general will potter along keeping revs down to save fuel, so even on the motorway they will usually be keeping to or be below the speed limit with the engine ticking along at around 2000 revs.
This provides the ideal environment over a long period for the engine to coke up.
The engine management light comes on and the owner reads the manual which tells them to immediately seek out an authorised dealer who will inevitably suggest that the egr unit is defunct and insist a new one be fitted. Whereas, unless there is, which is unusual, a physical breakage in the unit, all that needs to be done is give the unit a good clean.
The best way to avoid the engine being bunged up with coke is to give it a good thrash for a few miles at high revs to burn it off.
I also once a year depending on mileage give mine a dose of a product called Forte added to a tank of fuel to clean away any build up of coke.
Also part of my tool kit is an OBD2 code reader which will turn off the code that puts the engine into limp mode when the valve gets coked up.

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The most convincing thing you can do is take a look at the inside of your inlet manifold. If it looks as you'd expect (oily but no build up of dirt) then the EGR is causing no problem. If it looks like the inside of a two-stroke silencer from 1960 (and it will after 50,000 miles or so) then you will remove / blank / disable the device responsible. The last manifold I saw came off a Mondeo with 150K miles on the clock. It was down to 1/3rd of its original diameter.
 
andy63 said:
on switch off I think the egr valve goes through a self clean cycle. the transit does, so that may account for the noise, its trying too and cant cause its knackered
Click to expand...
No it doesnt, the EGR is a butterfly valve controlled by a motor. It doesnt have any cleaning cycle
 
No recent experience but having had several Jap Import Shoguns and Delica's they all had grungy valves.Had simple blanking plates off eBay for them and always ran better after blocking,no problems and much less smoke,no MOT probs,however I always changed to a K&N air filter at the same time,now there is another can of worms haha.

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jezport said:
No it doesnt, the EGR is a butterfly valve controlled by a motor. It doesnt have any cleaning cycle
Click to expand...
hi jezport, ive heard a rasping sawing noise on shutdown on my van (MK7 transit ), and was told that it is the egr valve self cleaning... I have not had a look at it so don't know what type of valve it is but the lad on the transit forum that replied posted a few pictures ..from memory I think it looked more like a slide valve but not sure .
ta andy
 
andy63 said:
hi jezport, ive heard a rasping sawing noise on shutdown on my van (MK7 transit ), and was told that it is the egr valve self cleaning... I have not had a look at it so don't know what type of valve it is but the lad on the transit forum that replied posted a few pictures ..from memory I think it looked more like a slide valve but not sure .
ta andy
Click to expand...

Ours does the same!

Sounds like someone using a wood saw followed by a squeek!
 
The wiki article on EGR makes interesting reading. I thought I was reasonably up to speed on modern engines but found I still had a lot to learn.

It seems the amount of exhaust gases recirculated can be as high as 50% when the engine is idling and this brings a lot of soot into the inlet manifold, clogging it up and increasing bore wear. Which is perhaps something to consider if you leave your engine running on idle or low revs for long periods, for example while trying to charge batteries.

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