Dvla Re-classification (1 Viewer)

[Lenny HB]

typical .. ?

according to this chart Germany over 3.5t is 100kmh and France 90kmh

Link Removed

They know better than the German Highway code then?
Also you have just quoted France at 90kmh where the CC say 110kmh, as it happens 90 is correct.

 

[Minxy]

which ones do you mean ? @MinxyGirl

reduced speed limits for motorhomes apply to all over 3.05t unladen

You are correct that the UK limit applies to vehicles both over and under 3500kg depending on their unladen weight, however I did actually state abroad in my posting to make it clear I wasn't talking about the UK!

... get the details corrected to 3850kg so you pay the correct tax and then comply with the speed limits (abroad) and restrictions that being over 3500kg brings ...

 

[Minxy]

As I have a PVC I wonder if it is different to a coachbuilt?

No it's to do with the weight and your vehicle body type is classed as a motor caravan. If it was 3850kg it would be a private Heavy good PHG but as it's 3500kg it's classed as a Private Light Goods (PLG) and the fact that its a PVC makes no difference to the fact it's a Motor caravan. hope this helps

Yes I totally understand that and always have ... what I was referring to was whether the requirement for what details have to be entered on MY registration document are different due to it being a PVC and not a 'modified' bodied vehicle such as a coachbuilt/A-class ...

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[scotjimland]

You are correct that the UK limit applies to vehicles both over and under 3500kg depending on their unladen weight, however I did actually state abroad in my posting to make it clear I wasn't talking about the UK!

no need for raised eyes..

there is obviously a misunderstanding ..

the OP said ..

My Hymer has always been plated at 3850kg

so whether he re-plates down to 3.5 t or not the reduced speed limits already applied to the van both in the UK and abroad. .. so nothing would change .. so why say he had to comply with speed limits that already applied.. ??

my posting had nothing to do with the different counties speed limits Per se .. (as others thought and decided to wade in ) ..

love them raised eyes..

 

[Voyger1010]

what details have to be entered on MY registration document are different due to it being a PVC and not a 'modified' bodied vehicle such as a coachbuilt/A-class

Gotcha, but No different, in their words it's a "body type Motor Caravan" they don't require anything more than what's on your V5c, because that was what it was when first registered, i.e. a motor caravan and not a modified body vehicle such as an A class or overcab coach built or PVC. Therefore it seems to me that your registration details are correctly entered.
I'm no DVLA expert and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either , but having recently gone through the mill over the taxation class and the V5c details of a micro car with DVLA, apparently it's what details are given when vehicle is first registered and apparently they will not change it, even though it is wrong. My Microcar is not a car according to them, even though I have to have car insurance, number plate etc., it's a 505cc, 2 cylinder engine quadricycle and is taxed at PLG £145pa. It is not a M1 private car, work that one out ! The VED table is all wrong and needs review.
Anyway I hope this helps

 

[Figaro]

I contacted DVLA via their message service telling them they should bloody well waive the £25 fee they were demanding to correct the mistake on my V5 only to receive a very courteous reply telling me that I had mis-read their message and the fee was only payable if I didn`t have the V5
So I got some form filling to keep me occupied over the weekend, looks like it`s gonna rain anyway !
A refund for the difference in tax amounts is promised within 6 weeks.
(I think that is only applicable if Ed Balls hasn`t become Chancellor of the Exchequor and gone on a spending spree in which case I can kiss goodbye to it)

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[Minxy]

I contacted DVLA via their message service telling them they should bloody well waive the £25 fee they were demanding to correct the mistake on my V5 only to receive a very courteous reply telling me that I had mis-read their message and the fee was only payable if I didn`t have the V5
So I got some form filling to keep me occupied over the weekend, looks like it`s gonna rain anyway !
A refund for the difference in tax amounts is promised within 6 weeks.
(I think that is only applicable if Ed Balls hasn`t become Chancellor of the Exchequor and gone on a spending spree in which case I can kiss goodbye to it)

I wonder in the previous owner can also claim back the extra tax they've paid over the years ... have you told them?

 

[Minxy]

no need for raised eyes..

there is obviously a misunderstanding ..

the OP said ..

so whether he re-plates down to 3.5 t or not the reduced speed limits already applied to the van both in the UK and abroad. .. so nothing would change .. so why say he had to comply with speed limits that already applied.. ??

my posting had nothing to do with the different counties speed limits Per se .. (as others thought and decided to wade in ) ..

love them raised eyes..

... he's only had the vehicle a short time so may NOT have been aware of the speed limit reductions abroad for vehicles over 3500kg ... in the UK it doesn't make any difference on the gross weight as we've already 'agreed' but abroad it does ... if he therefore did downrate to 3500kg he could go faster abroad than he currently is legally allowed to do, if not then he must comply with the lower limits ...

Feel free to split hairs!

 

[GAVLAD]

No other plate visible anywhere
Sounds like it may be a DVLA mistake in not having weight on V5 to refer to ?
Not so happy then to pay the £25 fee they`re asking for, I may try and argue it with them and try and get it waived.
Am I sounding more like a Yorkshire man as this goes on ? (which I`m not)

Nowt wrong with Yorkshire men!

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[Jean-luc]

the OP said ..My Hymer has always been plated at 3850kg

so whether he re-plates down to 3.5 t or not the reduced speed limits already applied to the van both in the UK and abroad. .. so nothing would change .. so why say he had to comply with speed limits that already applied.. ??

If the GVW is reduced to 3,500kg the lower speed limit (for vehicles over 3,500kg GVW) will no longer apply, so that will change

 

[Jean-luc]

Gotcha, but No different, in their words it's a "body type Motor Caravan" they don't require anything more than what's on your V5c, because that was what it was when first registered, i.e. a motor caravan and not a modified body vehicle such as an A class or overcab coach built or PVC. Therefore it seems to me that your registration details are correctly entered.
I'm no DVLA expert and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either , but having recently gone through the mill over the taxation class and the V5c details of a micro car with DVLA, apparently it's what details are given when vehicle is first registered and apparently they will not change it, even though it is wrong. My Microcar is not a car according to them, even though I have to have car insurance, number plate etc., it's a 505cc, 2 cylinder engine quadricycle and is taxed at PLG £145pa. It is not a M1 private car, work that one out ! The VED table is all wrong and needs review.
Anyway I hope this helps

DIRECTIVE 2007/46/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 5 September 2007 establishing a framework for the approval of motor vehicles and their trailers, and of systems, components and separate technical units intended for such vehicles says:
Category M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat.

So your Microcar is not a Private Light Goods Vehicle(Category N: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of goods.) it's a Passenger Vehicle (Category M: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers.)

 

[scotjimland]

If the GVW is reduced to 3,500kg the lower speed limit (for vehicles over 3,500kg GVW) will no longer apply, so that will change

what, are you on about now.. ??????

why would it no longer apply... ?? the reduced speed limit is for vehicles 3.5t OR over....

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[Jean-luc]

what, are you on about now.. ??????

why would it no longer apply... ?? the reduced speed limit is for vehicles 3.5t OR over....

The car speed limits apply to vehicles up to 3.5t, just like the B licence.
So does lots of other stuff like toll rates, LEZ's, weight restricted areas, etc.

Please check this for yourself from a reliable source, perhaps your local police.

 

[scotjimland]

whatever you say
you are correct and the Goverment site is wrong .. perhaps you should inform them

National speed limits
Type of vehicle Built-up areas mph (km/h) Single carriageways mph (km/h) Dual carriageways mph (km/h) Motorways mph (km/h)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles when towing caravans or trailers 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)
Buses, coaches and minibuses (not more than 12 metres overall length) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)
Buses, coaches and minibuses (more than 12 metres overall length) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)
60 (96) if articulated or towing a trailer
Goods vehicles (more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) in England and Wales 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Goods vehicles (more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) in Scotland 30 (48) 40 (64) 50 (80) 60 (96)
Vans, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles
Most vans under 7.5 tonnes laden (loaded) weight, including Ford Transit vans:

• have a lower speed limit than cars
• must follow the speed limits for goods vehicles of the same weight

A vehicle qualifying as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’ has the same speed limits as a car.

Motorhomes
Motorhomes or motor caravans are classed as goods vehicles if they:

• carry goods for exhibition and sale
• are used as a workshop
• are used for storage

Locally set speed limits
Local councils can set their own speed limits in certain areas, and these must be clearly signed.

For example:

• 20 mph zone in a built-up area near a school
• 50 mph (rather than 60 mph) limit on a stretch of road with sharp bends

Speed limiters
A speed limiter must be fitted on:

• vehicles with more than 8 passenger seats, eg buses, minibuses, coaches, stretch limousines
• goods vehicles with a maximum laden weight of more than 3.5 tonnes

Speed limiters are designed to reduce accidents. They limit the maximum speed of a vehicle by restricting the fuel supply to the engine. Having a speed limiter may mean that your vehicle can’t reach the speed limit.

Last updated: 6 April 2015

 

[Voyger1010]

it's a Passenger Vehicle (Category M: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers.)

No you are wrong it is a classification of PLG under 3500kg.
According to DVLA it is a L7 quadricycle which weighs less than 400kg and when it was first imported from France and registered in this country, there was no CO2 emissions data recorded on the Certificate of conformity, therefore it could not be an M1 private car . There are some other reasons they give as well but I'll send a copy of the DVLA letter, if you liked to read it, I've just spent 4 months trying to persuade DVLA that it's wrong quoting all the relevant European regs and even the
ROADS: vehicle excise duty (VED) Government standard note SN1482 updated 29 September 2014-author Louise Butcher from the government Business and Transport department.
and they agree it should be an M1 but will not and can not change it. Unless you know different!

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[Jean-luc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country
http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/french-speed-limits-950/

Note the references to under 3.5t and over 3.5t in the links above

In all vehicle category regulatory classification information and regulations the reference is not exceeding 3.5t including Driving licences, etc as previously posted.
It can be seen in the links above and in other reference documents which use similar wording that vehicles plated with a GVW of 3.5t are neither fish nor fowl. However taking guidance from legislative documents it is clear that the reference to under 3.5t is a misrepresentation and should read not exceeding 3.5t.
If the change point was less than 3.5t would not vehicles be delivered with a plated weight of 3.499t to keep them out of the higher category and all the added regulations which apply to vehicles over 3.5t

It is little wonder that so much confusion exists with such sloppy use of language and lack of attention to detail by some who publish information documents.

The 3.05 tonne (3 tons in old money) is a historic threshold originally applicable to 'heavy cars' and is unique to The UK, elsewhere the threshold is exceeding 3.5t. irrespective of the category of vehicle.

Hard hat on and gone

 

[Jean-luc]

No you are wrong it is a classification of PLG under 3500kg.
According to DVLA it is a L7 quadricycle which weighs less than 400kg and when it was first imported from France and registered in this country, there was no CO2 emissions data recorded on the Certificate of conformity, therefore it could not be an M1 private car . There are some other reasons they give as well but I'll send a copy of the DVLA letter, if you liked to read it, I've just spent 4 months trying to persuade DVLA that it's wrong quoting all the relevant European regs and even the
ROADS: vehicle excise duty (VED) Government standard note SN1482 updated 29 September 2014-author Louise Butcher from the government Business and Transport department.
and they agree it should be an M1 but will not and can not change it. Unless you know different!

Yes, it's an M1 which is a subcategory of M.
M1 vehicles are Passenger vehicles with not more than 8 passenger seats plus a drivers seat.

The Private Light Goods is a domestic UK classification for the purpose positioning the vehicle within the road tax price menu.
Here in Ireland MH's have their own motor taxation class called 'motor caravan' with its own price irrespective of size/weight. Currently its €102 pa.

 

[Figaro]

OMG what have I started?

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[Voyger1010]

Yes, it's an M1 which is a subcategory of M.
M1 vehicles are Passenger vehicles with not more than 8 passenger seats plus a drivers seat.

The Private Light Goods is a domestic UK classification for the purpose positioning the vehicle within the road tax price menu.
Here in Ireland MH's have their own motor taxation class called 'motor caravan' with its own price irrespective of size/weight. Currently its €102 pa.

Just to clear this up, the microcar is classified here in UK as a L7 which is taxed as a PLG under 3500kg at £145pa. It is not classified as a M1 vehicle for taxation. I,m very envious of your taxation of £102 for a motor caravan MH, mine at 3850kg is £165 pa. Thank you for trying

 

[Voyger1010]

OMG what have I started?

See! All your own fault lol
That,lol teach you

 

[gus-lopez]

No you are wrong it is a classification of PLG under 3500kg.
According to DVLA it is a L7 quadricycle which weighs less than 400kg and when it was first imported from France and registered in this country, there was no CO2 emissions data recorded on the Certificate of conformity, therefore it could not be an M1 private car . There are some other reasons they give as well but I'll send a copy of the DVLA letter, if you liked to read it, I've just spent 4 months trying to persuade DVLA that it's wrong quoting all the relevant European regs and even the
ROADS: vehicle excise duty (VED) Government standard note SN1482 updated 29 September 2014-author Louise Butcher from the government Business and Transport department.
and they agree it should be an M1 but will not and can not change it. Unless you know different!

Use the EU to do the work for you. Make a complaint using the EU complaints system:
http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/applying-eu-law/complaints_en.htm

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[Voyger1010]

Make a complaint using the EU complaints system:

Thanks Gus already doing that, but in meantime I have taxed it for 6 months so we can use it. I don't think the DVLA policy team is too happy about it, but I intend to go as far as I can with it.

 

[Minxy]

Thanks Gus already doing that, but in meantime I have taxed it for 6 months so we can use it. I don't think the DVLA policy team is too happy about it, but I intend to go as far as I can with it.

... could take a while with such a small engine!

 

[Hughman]

That is correct you mustn't put the new plate over the old one.
I've just received my new plate from SV Tech, I spoke to them about fitting it that is the advice they gave me.
So when I go into a French village that has a 3.5T limit they can see the plate on the side of the van & if I get stopped for a eight check I show them the new plate. A win win situation.

You may just not be the only one doing this

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[Voyger1010]

... could take a while with such a small engine!

Hey I'll have you know it can do 65 with two us in and anyway I'm a real fast worker

 

[Figaro]

Just by way of an update, dvla have reclassified my Hymer to 3900 KGS. It has always been 3850 but this was not shown on the v5 and so was classed as private light goods. They have now accepted it has always been private heavy goods and I have received my new v5 to confirm this, so road tax at £165 from now on and refund for overpayment on the way - hopefully !

 

[oldfozzie]

typical .. ?

according to this chart Germany over 3.5t is 100kmh and France 90kmh

Link Removed

As to speed limits in Germany this is a quote for the website of the police of Rheinland Pfalz which is one of the Bundeslaender but the same limits apply throughout the Bundesrpublic!

Des weiteren muss folgendes für Wohnmobile über 3,5 Tonnen zGG (zulässiges Gesamtgewicht) beachtet werden.

• Auf Landstraßen ist für Wohnmobile über 3,5 t zGG bis zu einem zul. Gesamtgewicht von 7,5 t nur eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit von 80 km/h erlaubt.“
• Auf Autobahnen und Kraftfahrstraßen ist für Wohnmobile über 3,5 t zGG bis zu einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht von 7,5 t (die im Fahrzeugschein als Wohnmobil bezeichnet sind) eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit von 100 km/h zulässig.

To translate this says that the speedlimits to be followed by Motorhomes of over 3.5 tons GVW must be observed:

On ordinary roads outside of 50 kph limits then an 80 kph limit applies.
On motorways and "fast roads" ( what we would call freeway or dual carriageways ) a highest speed of 100 kph is allowed.
The website also says that under 3.5 ton GVW the same limits apply as to private cars.

If anybody would like I could translate the whole webpage but there is a lot of it.

If you want to read it for yourself the page is at
Broken Link Removed

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