Ducato oil warning - the truth?

[G-RMPS]

I’ve had the flashing oil warning light on a 2015/16? Ducato multijet. I've seen and tried the documented ways of resetting the system, without joy. My oil gets changed annually by a non-Fiat garage, and a full service including timing chain was done at 27000 miles. At 28000 miles the flashing light came on, presumably because this is shortly after the “official” oil change period. Presumably no-one has reset the oil usage flag so far.

My manual warns not to add oil - not too helpful when my first instinct was to add oil irrespective of the level on the dipstick :-(.

After some difficulty locating a Fiat garage, I rolled into a place in Pont L’Eveque (cheese?), who eventually understood what I needed, but asked for a “carte grise” whatever that is.

They eventually managed to reset the indicator after some difficulty. I think they were unable to identify the age of the engine. Do we, in the UK, with a German Hymer have any official document which states the age of the engine as opposed to the Hymer bodywork?

The mechanics asked whether the threatened impending limp mode was identified in the manual, or on the display. I showed them the documented manual text regarding limited rpm at 3000 and then 1500 with no specified distance intervals. Their view was the manual was a bluff and nothing bad would happen!

So:

1. How do you define the age of the engine?
2. Is the manual correct in identifying an impending limp mode? If so, what are the distance parameters?

Either way, I find it disgusting that Fiat deliberately plan to impede my vehicle at a random time if it is not serviced by them, or they tell lies in their manual!

 

[Stealaway]

Standard service intervals for your engine is 28000 miles - its just never been reset when you have the services. It can be difficult to reset unless you pay Fiat garage an arm and both legs.
A good garage should have a computer to reset it. Once reset you wont need to worry for another 28000 miles

 

[pappajohn]

Do you really think a back street builder is going to take his van off the road for a service?
It will get done (maybe) when he get round to it which may be months down the line.

 

[G-RMPS]

Do you really think a back street builder is going to take his van off the road for a service?
It will get done (maybe) when he get round to it which may be months down the line.

So are you implying that the manual is a lie?

 

[Lenny HB]

Do we, in the UK, with a German Hymer have any official document which states the age of the engine as opposed to the Hymer bodywork?

You should 2 or 3 Certificates of Conformity, a Fiat one, an Al-Ko one if it's an Al-Ko chassis and a Hymer one.
The Fiat one will tell you when the Fiat bit was built .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[SandraL]

We have 2013 registered 3litre fiat engine, built in 2012.
The oil light started flashing because no reset had been done on service.
Eventually it gave up, no limp mode. I think it was 1000-1500 miles before it did go out.
There are 2 counters to reset, oil and service. On our engine it needs a laptop plugged in, multiecuscan is about £50 for the software and can reset ok. Pressing pedals etc will not do ours.

 

[G-RMPS]

I think I have an Al-Ko one, I definitely have a Hymer one (no dates), but no Fiat one. That’s from Travelworld.

What I can say is the Fiat garage did the necessary FOC, so no complaints about them!

 

[pappajohn]

So are you implying that the manual is a lie?

I'm in agreement with the mechanic.
Sandal seems to agree in post #6

 

[pappajohn]

a full service including timing chain was done at 27000 miles.

Any particular reason..... A chain should be good for 100000miles plus and a belt 70000/80000miles or 4/5 years, whichever first. .
27000 miles for a chain is like changing it because its there.

 

[G-RMPS]

Sorry, I meant belt, after 5 years. Having said that, I now have a “whine” under load. Hope it’s not water pump bearings. Was assured water pump change was unnecessary.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

I was a bit concerned you'd been duped into having a chain for no reason.
Don't know if the water pump is driven off the cam belt on that model but there shouldn't be any whining obviously.
If it is its worth changing even if it seems OK as there's just as much work involved changing it later as when changing the belt.
A new belt can put extra strain on other old components though... Tensioner, idler pulley etc.

 

[Jaws]

A water pump will not whine if you load the engine..It does not know the engine is under load
Does it whine in all gears or oe specific one ?

 

[Coolcats]

I’ve had the flashing oil warning light on a 2015/16? Ducato multijet. I've seen and tried the documented ways of resetting the system, without joy. My oil gets changed annually by a non-Fiat garage, and a full service including timing chain was done at 27000 miles. At 28000 miles the flashing light came on, presumably because this is shortly after the “official” oil change period. Presumably no-one has reset the oil usage flag so far.

My manual warns not to add oil - not too helpful when my first instinct was to add oil irrespective of the level on the dipstick :-(.

After some difficulty locating a Fiat garage, I rolled into a place in Pont L’Eveque (cheese?), who eventually understood what I needed, but asked for a “carte grise” whatever that is.

They eventually managed to reset the indicator after some difficulty. I think they were unable to identify the age of the engine. Do we, in the UK, with a German Hymer have any official document which states the age of the engine as opposed to the Hymer bodywork?

The mechanics asked whether the threatened impending limp mode was identified in the manual, or on the display. I showed them the documented manual text regarding limited rpm at 3000 and then 1500 with no specified distance intervals. Their view was the manual was a bluff and nothing bad would happen!

So:

1. How do you define the age of the engine?
2. Is the manual correct in identifying an impending limp mode? If so, what are the distance parameters?

Either way, I find it disgusting that Fiat deliberately plan to impede my vehicle at a random time if it is not serviced by them, or they tell lies in their manual!

You should be able to ask Fiat for a Certificate of origin or provenance, there is normally a small admin charge for doing so.

Interestingly on my V5 no engine number appears on it, however within the Fiat paperwork that came with the van is a Certificate Di Conformita' CA and that has lots of vehicle information on. I suspect Fiat may be able to supply you with that. I wouldn't bother with a dealer I would go straight to Fiat

 

[Deneb]

Either way, I find it disgusting that Fiat deliberately plan to impede my vehicle at a random time if it is not serviced by them, or they tell lies in their manual!

They don't. There is no limp mode associated with the service reminder indicator and any decent garage should be able to reset it.

What they do on Euro 5+ and newer engines (and this is not unique to Fiat BTW) is to calculate the likely condition of the oil in your engine using a software algorithm which takes account of various factors including they type of driving you have been doing, how many DPF regenerations have taken place and what level/type of regenerations they were, how many have been interrupted, how many cold starts you have done in relation to total mileage, environmental conditions and various other factors.

When the software determines that your oil is probably no longer in a suitable condition to give the necessary protection to your engine, it generates a warning on the instrument cluster. It is telling you that the oil needs changing. When the oil has been changed, the counter needs to be reset by the mechanic to tell the software that the oil is new, and to restart its calculations.

If you don't change the oil, or you do, but the mechanic through ignorance or whatever reason fails to reset the counter, the ECU will progressively restrict the performance of the engine along with further warnings to minimise damage that might otherwise be caused.

The procedure does not have to be carried out by Fiat. I do my own servicing and I can reset the counter with the kit I use at home. It does however require whoever you use to work on your vehicle to be competent, conversant and knowledgable as to what they are doing.

If you have a Euro 5+ or later vehicle, put time and mileage based oil changes out of your mind. They are no longer relevant. Yes, Fiat advertise a headline figure of 2 years or 30,000 miles as an absolute maximum period between oil changes, but check the service schedule grid in your handbook. It says that the actual period for changing the oil depends on the vehicle usage conditions and is signalled by a warning light or message on the instrument panel. The actual mileage or time between required oil changes can be much lower than the headline figure depending on use. Iveco state that it can be as low as 4,000km in very severe usage conditions.

So if you get an oil change required warning (as distinct from a service reminder message) don't ignore it. Worst case scenario, you need an oil change, but it could be that whoever did the last oil change didn't reset the counter, or less likely but possible that you have a faulty sensor amongst the various sensors that are used to update the counter algorithm.

Any competent garage can do that. It does not (as yet) mean that you can only have your vehicle serviced by Fiat. But there is currently pressure from legislators as a result of dieselgate and a desire to prevent unqualified parties from making changes to vehicles that could affect the emissions set by the manufacturer, which could make that a reality for all vehicles in the future.

Edit: You asked about the mileage limits before limp mode would be enabled. There are no specific mileage limits for the oil condition counter. It is based on the calculated condition of the oil. The oil change warning is illuminated at a certain threshold of calculated oil degredation. When further thresholds are reached, the vehicle will enter the first or second stage of limp mode. The distances before that might happen, as with the initial activation of the oil change warning, depend on the driving conditions in the intervening periods rather than simply on mileage covered.