Ducato first year service (1 Viewer)

[Durham's dad]

My PVC is 12 months old next month and has a 3 year Fiat warranty
Stoneacre who supplied the van to the converters and who are Fiat service agents have made contact today and have suggested a 12 month oil and filter change.
If I don't have it done the roadside assistance will lapse until I have the full first service which is not due until next December (at 2 years old) when it will be valid until the end of the 3 year warranty period.
I'm all for an annual oil and filter change but at £196! Seems a bit steep. I welcome the continuation of the roadside assistance but it's at what seems a lot of dosh for a simple job.
Any thoughts or experience of cheaper work at Fiat workshops??

 

[DBK]

Check the service booklet as it almost certainly isn't required and you should not penalised by loss of roadside assistance. The garage is trying it on.

 

[Allanm]

It’s probably not required for the warranty, but when I took my Ducato based van in for some work ( at 8 months old) I was told that if I do under 10,000 km a year I should have an oil service at 12 months, otherwise it’s the normal 2 years .
Our van, just a year old now, has done 19000 km, so won’t have an oil service till next year.

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[TinaLes]

I am pretty sure that the oil service intervals are listed as 17,000 miles or 2 years, which ever comes first. Our van is now 2 years old and just had its first ever oil service,along with filters etc the dealer did it along with the vans 2nd year habitation check.
However some people do put their vans in every 12 months regardless of use, or low mileage, as they are probably "old School" types that have had that done with every vehicle they have ever owned, some even carry the work out themselves, so hats off to them.
The new synthetic oils are much longer lasting than the Castrol 25/50 of years gone by
Les

 

[Deneb]

Check your handbook, specifically the additional paragraphs under the service grid.

For newer Ducatos, oil changes are not defined by mileage, but should be completed as required by the "change engine oil" message displayed in the instrument cluster, but in any event must never exceed 2 years.

The oil change message is produced by software which calculates the likely dilution or wear of the engine oil resulting from the number and type of DPF regenerations and other driving parameters.

Fiat also suggest that consideration should be given to changing the oil and filter more frequently in certain driving conditions.

Iveco, who jointly designed and manufacture the multijet engines with Fiat, go further and state oil changes should be every 12 months if the vehicle is driven less than 20,000km (12,500 miles) a year, or before running the engine if it has not been driven for 3 months.

 

[DaveandJen]

No need for a 12 month oil and filter change and your roadside assistance will not lapse. You should report any company that is telling you that to Fiat because that is not true.

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[Durham's dad]

Thanks for the responses. I am 'old school' and was intending to get the oil and filter changed after each 12 month period, regardless of mileage. I will have done about 6000 miles.
I think the price for doing the job is ridiculous and don't like the threat of losing the roadside assistance if I don't have it done by a Fiat workshop.
I'll make some calls tomorrow and update the thread.
Steve

 

[Lenny HB]

Dealer trying it on. First service not required until 45000 km (28k miles) or two years.

 

[Driventemple]

I make no apology for being 'Old School'
I had the oil and filter changed at 12 months because I felt that the comparatively low mileage would encourage moisture from the air to mix with the oil. Having a vehicle standing idle for longer periods than a normal delivery van could allow condensation to form.
For the same reason, during the winter, I always keep the fuel tank filled to the brim.
As long as the vehicle is serviced to Fiat's requirements your roadside assistance will not be affected.

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[Deneb]

I make no apology for being 'Old School'
I had the oil and filter changed at 12 months because I felt that the comparatively low mileage would encourage moisture from the air to mix with the oil. Having a vehicle standing idle for longer periods than a normal delivery van could allow condensation to form.
For the same reason, during the winter, I always keep the fuel tank filled to the brim.
As long as the vehicle is serviced to Fiat's requirements your roadside assistance will not be affected.

Exactly. There is no requirement for an annual oil change to keep your warranty. There is no longer a maximum mileage specified either. For those still quoting one, read the rest of the information below the service schedule grid in the handbook of current models.

For the warranty, a 24 month oil change will suffice, or when the dashboard message indicates that an oil change is necessary if sooner.

But low mileage and not being in daily use are worst for the condition of the oil than high mileages. Condensation, oxidisation and the presence of contaminants sitting in the oil for extended periods not being evaporated or burnt off by running conditions are not good for the engine, hence Fiat's recommendations to consider at least annual oil changes in certain conditions and Iveco's more precise recommendations.

I suppose it depends whether you intend to keep your van for some time or trade it in for another every few years

 

[Ernesto]

Personally, I think annual services on low mileages is throwing good oil away. As others have said, modern synthetic oils can do two years, unless conditions are super harsh - multiple short journeys etc etc.
Porsche specify 2 year intervals for their cars - if its good enough for them, it'll do for me.

But if anyone wants to do belt and braces annual oil changes, thats also cool - its free country?

 

[Durham's dad]

I have spoken with Stoneacre and Fiat roadside assistance this morning and have clarified the situation (It's not my favour!).
As my vehicle is a PVC the road side assistance only runs for the first year and to extend it an interim service has to be carried out (regardless of the service schedule stating every 2 years or 30000 miles) between the main service dates. The scheme is known as SARA or Service Activated Roadside Assistance. So each year (up to 15 years I believe) providing a service is done by a Fiat Professional workshop SARA remains your friend on the road.
For Fiat chassied vehicles, ie coach built, the roadside assistance is there for the first 2 years, regardless of whether or not a service is carried out.
The date of the change was 1/1/2017 prior to which roadside assistance was automatically given for 3 years to all vehicles.
On the plus side the quote I got for the interim from Stoneacre this morning was £194.04 and Brownhills quoted £250 for the same thing. So i guess i don't feel too bad, and of course I'll still have SARA for company!

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[Ernesto]

That’s useful to know ... ? But... still poor value for money in my view.
So we’re expected to pay £200 for a service we don’t need, and they give us breakdown cover that’s widely available with your insurance policy. I know it’s not free with insurance policies, but its not a £200 extra.
This sounds like a policy for commercial van owners who are racking up the miles - not campervan users

 

[Coolcats]

The one thing that keeps your engine in top condition is....Oil, yes you can just go for long life services but I always change every 12 months its not being old school but he particulates and small bits of Metal will build up. Its a personal choice but I have never had any issues with an engine by changing the oil so reguarly.

 

[Durham's dad]

I agree with you Ernesto, there's a heck of a difference between the mileage commercial users will rack up compared to the average campervan user. I suppose we could start a petition....Perhaps we could have the matter debated in Parliament. It'd soon be sorted!!

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[WillH]

I'm aligned with the 'old school', oil change every 12 months.

 

[maison]

We tend to change our oil and filter every 12 months “just to be on the safe side”.

However, last week we took delivery of a new Peugeot based motorhome and the first service is due at 30k miles.

We tend to do around 13k per year but will still continue to spend unnecessary money on an annual oi/filter change “just in case”.

But, then again, we have more money than sense, and we don’t have much money either.

 

[Charlie9038]

Had my first service when she was 2 years old on our ducato, next is due in 4 years ?

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[Ernesto]

If you’re doing 13,000 miles a year, I get the case for an annual oil change. At 4 or 5k a year, I don’t. But that’s just my call ?

 

[Stealaway]

My service light came on at 28,000 miles although it had had a couple of sevices prior to that. You need a computer to reset the light. Every year seems a bit unessesary with these modem synthetic oils.

 

[Deneb]

If you’re doing 13,000 miles a year, I get the case for an annual oil change. At 4 or 5k a year, I don’t. But that’s just my call ?

It's the lower mileages that need shorter oil changes. Long periods of used oil sitting in a cold sump and not being run up to temperature frequently are the conditions where it causes most damage to the engine and the condition of the oil

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[Riverbankannie]

It's the lower mileages that need shorter oil changes. Long periods of used oil sitting in a cold sump and not being run up to temperature frequently are the conditions where it causes most damage to the engine and the condition of the oil

That’s exactly what I have been told today when I went for my second service at 4 years. At 5k mikes per year I don’t do enough and should have oil change every year.
Oh, and should have a cambelt change at 5 years. I had better start a new thread.!

 

[Coolcats]

.

That’s exactly what I have been told today when I went for my second service at 4 years. At 5k mikes per year I don’t do enough and should have oil change every year.
Oh, and should have a cambelt change at 5 years. I had better start a new thread.!

Yup that's one reason I change mine every year but everyone is different and if you comfortable with Bi-Annual then why not

 

[Ninjabob]

If you are still using Duckhams 20/50 then every year. If you are using low ash fully synthetic oil then changing it at a low mileage at 12 months you are what is known as a gift to the dealerships. If you must - and you definitely needn't - buy the correct oil and original equipment filter and get it done labour only by a Independent VAT registered dealer who can stamp your book. Or I can give you my PAYPAL account details and you can send me what it would have cost. Bear in mind I reckon given a week or so I could train my Burmese Cat (Lily) how to do the oil and filter change and like her if I did it (which I did) I would not even need to jack the van up!

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[Clarky]

Shortly after buying our present van it had to go to a Fiat Professional dealer for a recall.
I asked the mechanic then if I needed to have an annual oil and filter change and his reply was ‘only if you do a low mileage‘. At that time we were doing 12k a year, now a bit lower, but I still prefer to have an annual oil change.
Compared to the overall cost of buying and running the van it’s not a huge amount to pay for peace of mind.

 

[DDJC]

What defines low mileage? We have done about 5600 miles in our first year of ownership from new.

Starting in Kent, we did three beer runs to Belgium, a week in Ireland, week in Normandy and a 3 week tour round Yerp (via Champagne, Cotes du Rhone, Barolo, Amarone, Gewurztraminer, Grauburgunder and Burgundy)

Are these short runs?

 

[TheBig1]

if you are being charged retail, the oil used in the modern ducato engine is over £100, so adding a filter and new sump plug washer and an hour labour, it puts the bill near £200

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[Deneb]

What defines low mileage? We have done about 5600 miles in our first year of ownership from new.

Starting in Kent, we did three beer runs to Belgium, a week in Ireland, week in Normandy and a 3 week tour round Yerp (via Champagne, Cotes du Rhone, Barolo, Amarone, Gewurztraminer, Grauburgunder and Burgundy)

Are these short runs?

Iveco define low mileage as less than 12,500 miles a year for the purposes of an annual oil change.

It does not necessarily mean short runs, but if you are doing a mileage less than that a year, it does imply either a pattern of regular short journeys in which the engine never gets hot enough to burn off or evaporate contaminants in the oil (regular by products of normal use), fewer longer journeys which implies that the vehicle must spend a lot of its time sitting unused with the same contaminants and condensation building up in the oil affecting its protective properties, as well as oil having time to run back to the sump from cylinder bores and bearings so that they are more prone to corrosive elements and each engine start is done with less initial protection than when a vehicle is in regular use, and with less than optimal oil circulating in it, or an element of both journey types - or even worse, being started up and left idling until hot periodically because it's not being used, or just given a short run down the shops to keep everything ticking over.

Your description suggests that your van has about 5-6 weeks of reasonable operating use a year. That's 46 - 47 weeks of either being laid up or short journeys. I would want to have the oil changed every spring before using the van for the first time or at least as soon as possible after its first start of the year in those circumstances.

 

[DDJC]

Iveco define low mileage as less than 12,500 miles a year for the purposes of an annual oil change.

It does not necessarily mean short runs, but if you are doing a mileage less than that a year, it does imply either a pattern of regular short journeys in which the engine never gets hot enough to burn off or evaporate contaminants in the oil (regular by products of normal use), fewer longer journeys which implies that the vehicle must spend a lot of its time sitting unused with the same contaminants and condensation building up in the oil affecting its protective properties, as well as oil having time to run back to the sump from cylinder bores and bearings so that they are more prone to corrosive elements and each engine start is done with less initial protection than when a vehicle is in regular use, and with less than optimal oil circulating in it, or an element of both journey types - or even worse, being started up and left idling until hot periodically because it's not being used, or just given a short run down the shops to keep everything ticking over.

Your description suggests that your van has about 5-6 weeks of reasonable operating use a year. That's 46 - 47 weeks of either being laid up or short journeys. I would want to have the oil changed every spring before using the van for the first time or at least as soon as possible after its first start of the year in those circumstances.

This is why I love this site. The advice is explained so well. I will be telling the service guys to change the oil annually as a hundred quid of oil is cheaper than an engine.

Kudos and thanks Deneb

 

[Durham's dad]

Good discussion. As someone said, 'it's good to talk'.
As stated previously it was always my intention to change the oil annually but I was taken aback by the quoted price.
I know from previous experience with a car I can maintain a warranty by using a cheaper local garage and having them use 'genuine parts' . I would have done that with the van, or done it myself, I could probably manage an oil change, though on previous form I'd have probably flooded the drive!
However, as I've got no other breakdown cover that will be suitable for the van (3.9 ton) I'll bite the bullet with Stoneacre. I'm assuming I can trust them.

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