Ducato Clutch Slave Cylinder.

[Jake Royd]

As well as having a Ducato motorhome , I also drive a Ducato minibus.
Last week the clutch, on the minibus, started intermittently going to the floor without disengaging the clutch.
The vehicle was recovered to a well known commercial vehicle garage.
Only done about 33,000 miles. (2014 registered)
Many of you will know that the slave cylinder actuates the clutch directly onto the 'fingers' of the diaphragm and is mounted concentrically around the gearbox input shaft.

It shares the hydraulic fluid reservoir of the brake servo/master cylinder and has a master cylinder of it's own, situated within the pedal box.

This means to replace the slave cylinder, the gearbox has to be removed and refitted.
The garage are quoting £750 to do this based on 11hrs labour.
Apparently the 'book' hrs are 10, so they have added 1hr contingency.

Quite a shock for me, I mentioned that 10 hrs is a lot to remove and refit the gearbox (i'm an ex automotive design and development manager so I know what i'm talking about) but they just said well it's the book value.

Nothing much I can do , the minibus is not mine and we need it so no time and opportunity to get alternative quotes from elsewhere.

It does make you wonder why we don't have a nice pressed of forged fork operated by a simple externally mounted slave cylinder. Simple and cheap to fix. I know why of course.

Just having a moan , hope my motorhome one's ok.

Googling, I discover that this failure mode is not unknown on Ducato's , like a few other things I could mention..............................

 

[Boringfrog]

Have you had a quote from any other garages? 11 hours sounds a lot. 2 hours to remove, 2 to replace, sit and drink tea for 7 hours.

 

[Lenny HB]

Have you had a quote from any other garages? 11 hours sounds a lot. 2 hours to remove, 2 to replace, sit and drink tea for 7 hours.

Yep sounds like a stitch up I've heard other garages quote 4 hours.

 

[Peter & Elaine]

I had a clutch done on mine dropped it of at 8 am and picked it up at 2 pm same day and I assume they had to wait for parts £650
And that included a new slave cylinder

 

[Ivory55]

It might be their way of saying that they don’t want the job without offending.

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[Deneb]

Googling, I discover that this failure mode is not unknown on Ducato's , like a few other things I could mention..............................

Not unknown on many other vehicles which have concentric slave cylinders either. It's a fairly common configuration on modern hydraulically operated clutches.

 

[Jake Royd]

No real alternatives , the job is complete now.
I wonder if they use the 'book' time to quote the job but actually charge for the hours it takes?

Yes, many modern vehicles have the same configuration. Obviously they rely on the reliability of the internally mounted cylinder to provide a justification for doing it.
It reduces the parts count and the assembly time.
It probably ensures that the pressure on the release plate fingers is nicely distributed and it perhaps it makes engineering the self adjusting mechanism easier.

But if it fails Grrr............................

 

[KUSKUS]

The company I work for run a number of Ducato small buses and we had a number of slave cylinders fail.
The bus I drive is currently having the clutch replaced , first one failed at 22,000 miles under warranty, this time 58000 miles ( comfortmatic gearbox).

 

[Jake Royd]

The company I work for run a number of Ducato small buses and we had a number of slave cylinders fail.
The bus I drive is currently having the clutch replaced , first one failed at 22,000 miles under warranty, this time 58000 miles ( comfortmatic gearbox).

Yes, there are a number of persistent , relatively common, Ducato problems are there not?
The engine is an Iveco unit in many Ducato's and must be designed to be thrashed by White Van man for well over a 100,000 miles.

I come from a design and development background.
When any mechanism is first put into service there are (amongst the total population) always some 'early life' of 'infant mortality' failures. These are usually manufacturing faults.
Then the system or device functions as designed for a long time.
At the end of this period we get 'end of life' failures where things break or wear out.

If time is plotted horizontally and failures vertically the 'bathtub curve results.

This is why extended warranties are very profitable for companies, they are selling you a policy that comes into force after the early life failures when things are running steady state.

Failures after the initial early life failures can point to design and application failures.

Remember That Fiat does not make the engine and of course also does not make the slave cylinder.
However, it does define the performance and reliability the part must adhere to and the test regime that it must meet.

It's possible that the cylinder has been resourced and has been cost reduced and no longer meets the original spec.

All speculation I know but it does seem Ducato's have more than their share of low incidence failures that are expensive to fix.

 

[Jermdog9]

Hi Guys,
Just had the same.pronlem with our Ducato 2.3,
Last night stopped at a shop for10 mins, then went to pull away and found.d clutch pedal to the floor, checked underneath and fluid all.on the road.
Called recovery and.towed.us.to a garage for repairs and they told us needs a new clutch and.fly wheel, and that slave ,master.cyclimder is.all internal that's why we need.new clutch and fly wheel.
Only done 31000 miles and clutch seemed fine before
Quote.for job New one by fiat £2,500
Or reconditioned with no warranty £500
What's your thoughts is it clutch replacement or just the master /slave cylinder?
Many thanks

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[Phill D]

as its dumped all it hydraulic oil inside the bell housing you would be very lucky if none had found its way onto the clutch.

as for the flywheel it would be good practice to change that while the box is out and the clutch being changed.

you would only really tell its condition when the box and clutch are removed.

 

[Lenny HB]

£500 wouldn't even cover the labour cost let alone the parts. I'd be very suspicious of that quote.

 

[the1andonly]

Googling, I discover that this failure mode is not unknown on Ducato's , like a few other things I could mention..............................

Go on then 1'll start the list
X290 twin egr model: DPF cracking and LPEGR cooler blocking.

 

[Jake Royd]

Go on then 1'll start the list
X290 twin egr model: DPF cracking and LPEGR cooler blocking.

X250 leaking fuel filter housing.
X250 rubbish windscreen drains.
X250/X290 airbag ECU failure.
X250/X290 comfortmatic issues.
X250 injector wiring chafing/failure.
X250 paint adhesion (2007/2008)
X250/X290 air cleaner fixings.

 

[the1andonly]

X250 leaking fuel filter housing.
X250 rubbish windscreen drains.
X250/X290 airbag ECU failure.
X250/X290 comfortmatic issues.
X250 injector wiring chafing/failure.
X250 paint adhesion (2007/2008)
X250/X290 air cleaner fixings.

X290 windscreen scuttle issues
x244 5th gear splash lubrication
x??? injector lead too short
x250? rusty junction
series 8 display issues

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[Phill D]

Early x250 reverse gear judder