Ducato 9 Speed Auto Gearbox Overheating

[Lenny HB]

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.
A friend is on his way down through France at the moment & going through the Massif Central on the A75 he had a Gearbox Oil Hot warning and lost power. He pulled over and let it cool down at then crawled to the next Aire after that it was OK.

He had problems with a warning light and the Fiat dealer found the gearbox had been underfilled, they drained it oil looked fine & refilled it to the correct level & they have a new gearbox on order.

 

[royandsharont]

Thanks for this post Lenny HB. I’ve had no problems but have not done the time on a motorway that your friend is likely to have done, although I have done just over 2k miles to the top of Scotland & back.

In March we will, crossing Spain, so it’s good to be aware

 

[danielf]

Hey Lenny HB

We have done 15k miles on ours now , and fair bit fast on autoroutes in the 40 degree heat last summer and we had no issues.

Daniel.

 

[Diabalo]

Lenny HB Has it wrecked the gearbox?

 

[EuroTrotters]

PHEW ! I thought you new Carthago had arrived for a moment !

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[Lenny HB]

Lenny HB Has it wrecked the gearbox?

Appears to be OK once it had cooled down.

 

[Diabalo]

Appears to be OK once it had cooled down.

Then why new box on order?

 

[Lenny HB]

Then why new box on order?

The overheating only happened today, new box was ordered as the warning light was not due to a sensor & they determined it was a fault with the box due to being underfilled at the factory.
That's as far as I can ascertain as it's 3rd hand info.

 

[Steve and Denise]

The overheating only happened today, new box was ordered as the warning light was not due to a sensor & they determined it was a fault with the box due to being underfilled at the factory.
That's as far as I can ascertain as it's 3rd hand info.

So it could be a simple fluid over temperature warning that would be expected with low levels of atf/oil ?
Are these duel clutch boxes ?

 

[Lenny HB]

So it could be a simple fluid over temperature warning that would be expected with low levels of atf/oil ?

The box has the correct amount of oil in now & it's the first time it's overheated.

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[Steve and Denise]

The box has the correct amount of oil in now & it's the first time it's overheated.

Yes I gather that as you said it was filled to the correct level, but the original problem was over heating of the Transmission or fluid? That’s why autos have oil coolers on the transmission

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes I gather that as you said it was filled to the correct level, but the original problem was over heating of the Transmission or fluid? That’s why autos have oil coolers on the transmission

I said today was the first time it's overheated.

 

[Googlebot]

Sounds like more to it than being under filled at the factory.

Lucky a new one is on order.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.
A friend is on his way down through France at the moment & going through the Massif Central on the A75 he had a Gearbox Oil Hot warning and lost power. He pulled over and let it cool down at then crawled to the next Aire after that it was OK.

He had problems with a warning light and the Fiat dealer found the gearbox had been underfilled, they drained it oil looked fine & refilled it to the correct level & they have a new gearbox on order.

Sorry not the way I read this, that was to quick a diagnosis

 

[Lenny HB]

Sounds like more to it than being under filled at the factory.

Lucky a new one is on order.

Makes you wonder that Fiat are prepared to replace it, the van is out of warranty but the warning light first appeared when it was in warranty & they had not been able to sort it.

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[paul2]

I had a problem with my Sun living v65sl at 3500mls in July 2021 on a very hot day on the M5 south carpark between J14 and Sedgemoore services as the traffic started to get up to normal speed my van would not change up leaving me doing about 30mph as i could see the services i pull in and phoned the breakdown number, by the time they arrived it was working ok he cleared the fault followed me to J24. the van ran ok from then on. The van was picked up from me on 25th August 2022 at 8600mls when the insurance wrote it off.

Paul

 

[Lenny HB]

I had a problem with my Sun living v65sl at 3500mls in July 2021 on a very hot day on the M5 south carpark between J14 and Sedgemoore services as the traffic started to get up to normal speed my van would not change up leaving me doing about 30mph as i could see the services i pull in and phoned the breakdown number, by the time they arrived it was working ok he cleared the fault followed me to J24. the van ran ok from then on. The van was picked up from me on 25th August 2022 at 8600mls when the insurance wrote it off.

Paul

I think he was cruising at 130kmh air temp near zero.
Why was yours written off, a prang?

 

[EuroTrotters]

So it could be a simple fluid over temperature warning that would be expected with low levels of atf/oil ?
Are these duel clutch boxes ?

Torque Converter Box (ZF)

 

[paul2]

Hail storm damage in France

 

[EuroTrotters]

Hail storm damage in France

I had two cars damaged by grêlon géant back in early 90's. Glad we were under cover, even though it was just a keycamp tent

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[Ditcha]

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.
A friend is on his way down through France at the moment &

That's as far as I can ascertain as it's 3rd hand info.

So if the info is from a friend sure it's first hand info and not 3rd

 

[Lenny HB]

So if the info is from a friend sure it's first hand info and not 3rd

Surely 1st hand it would be my van, well that's my logic

 

[Ditcha]

Surely 1st hand it would be my van, well that's my logic

So what is it then

 

[SpeedyDux]

Very high ATF temperature degrades the ATF quickly. At best, the ATF needs changing much sooner than expected. Meanwhile, critical components of the ZF Autobox might suffer excessive wear, especially if the ATF was underfilled at the factory. That could result in early gearbox failure. You have to wonder how much muck and/or swarf was circulating inside. Changing the gearbox (under warranty) seems like a wise precaution to me.

 

[Waggysenior]

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.
A friend is on his way down through France at the moment & going through the Massif Central on the A75 he had a Gearbox Oil Hot warning and lost power. He pulled over and let it cool down at then crawled to the next Aire after that it was OK.

He had problems with a warning light and the Fiat dealer found the gearbox had been underfilled, they drained it oil looked fine & refilled it to the correct level & they have a new gearbox on order.

Hi Lenny
We have a six month old Rapido 8086DF on a Fiat chassis with the much vaunted Fiat 9 speed auto box. Maiden voyage last month (June 2023) we drove all the way down to Dubrovnik in Croatia. About 1700miles. Just out of Dubrovnik, the red gearbox warning light comes on, then the yellow 'gearbox oil overheating' light comes on. We then lose power, engine is racing and we're going nowhere. Managed to limp off a busy road and called Fiat Camper Assist. It was a Sunday. After waiting about an hour to talk to someone who could speak English, we were told that as it was a Sunday, they couldn't help us as they don't work on Sundays. Unbelievable. He suggested we stay put till the next day when they would send a recovery truck. It was 35 degrees C. We're parked in a difficult spot, partially blocking access to a busy garage.
So we ignored this advice. I tried to start the engine and it fired up and the gearbox lights stayed off, although the amber 'check engine' warning light stayed on. We set off again and this became the pattern, red light, the yellow gearbox oil overheating light, stop the van for a while then set off.
We were planning on staying in Europe for another month, but Fiat camper Assist were useless; in fact we got no support at all. It took them 5 days to even call us back, and that was only because an excellent lady at Brownhills beat them up.
Thanks to her, we got an appointment with a Fiat Professional garage. They ran diagnostics and confirmed the problem lay with the Torque Converter due to insufficient oil in the gearbox. However, they could do nothing about it and suggest we get the van back to our UK dealer (Brownhills). They confirmed that in their opinion, the van would be OK to drive back to the UK.
So we cut short our holiday ( we had planned to tour for another month), and limped back to Blighty. The van is waiting to go back to Brownhills for repair.
To say we're disappointed is a mega understatement. Things go wrong, we accept that, but the total lack of back up on a brand new van's Breakdown Assist is unacceptable. Also, how can there be 'insufficient oil' in a new gearbox?
So it seems your friend is not alone.

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[The Wino]

Hi Lenny
We have a six month old Rapido 8086DF on a Fiat chassis with the much vaunted Fiat 9 speed auto box. Maiden voyage last month (June 2023) we drove all the way down to Dubrovnik in Croatia. About 1700miles. Just out of Dubrovnik, the red gearbox warning light comes on, then the yellow 'gearbox oil overheating' light comes on. We then lose power, engine is racing and we're going nowhere. Managed to limp off a busy road and called Fiat Camper Assist. It was a Sunday. After waiting about an hour to talk to someone who could speak English, we were told that as it was a Sunday, they couldn't help us as they don't work on Sundays. Unbelievable. He suggested we stay put till the next day when they would send a recovery truck. It was 35 degrees C. We're parked in a difficult spot, partially blocking access to a busy garage.
So we ignored this advice. I tried to start the engine and it fired up and the gearbox lights stayed off, although the amber 'check engine' warning light stayed on. We set off again and this became the pattern, red light, the yellow gearbox oil overheating light, stop the van for a while then set off.
We were planning on staying in Europe for another month, but Fiat camper Assist were useless; in fact we got no support at all. It took them 5 days to even call us back, and that was only because an excellent lady at Brownhills beat them up.
Thanks to her, we got an appointment with a Fiat Professional garage. They ran diagnostics and confirmed the problem lay with the Torque Converter due to insufficient oil in the gearbox. However, they could do nothing about it and suggest we get the van back to our UK dealer (Brownhills). They confirmed that in their opinion, the van would be OK to drive back to the UK.
So we cut short our holiday ( we had planned to tour for another month), and limped back to Blighty. The van is waiting to go back to Brownhills for repair.
To say we're disappointed is a mega understatement. Things go wrong, we accept that, but the total lack of back up on a brand new van's Breakdown Assist is unacceptable. Also, how can there be 'insufficient oil' in a new gearbox?
So it seems your friend is not alone.

Are they replacing the whole gearbox?

 

[Waggysenior]

Are they replacing the whole gearbox?

Dunno yet; it's booked into Brownhills in a couple of weeks time. They've said they will run their own diagnostics and determine what the problem is, and therefore the 'fix'. I'll report back when I know more.

 

[Waggysenior]

Are they replacing the whole gearbox?

It's under warranty of course, and this is why I was keen to get Fiat Professional in Europe to confirm that it was alright to drive back to the UK, which they did. I'm afraid my experience of motor vehicle warranties is generally that they are not designed to help you, merely a sales aid at point of sale. Even now, I'm expecting a 'fight' over the matter. This is of course, not how it should be at all.

 

[The Wino]

It's under warranty of course, and this is why I was keen to get Fiat Professional in Europe to confirm that it was alright to drive back to the UK, which they did. I'm afraid my experience of motor vehicle warranties is generally that they are not designed to help you, merely a sales aid at point of sale. Even now, I'm expecting a 'fight' over the matter. This is of course, not how it should be at all.

Years ago the bloke I worked for bought a brand new BMW 325 first trip out it broke down on the motorway no oil! They let it cool filled it up and said it was fine I would have been worried about premature failure out of warranty!

 

[Lenny HB]

Been meaning g to update this thread for a few weeks & keep forgetting.
He got back from Spain by driving for 1½ to 2 hours then resting for ½ hour that way got back without any problems.

It went back to Fiat Professional dealers, they then diagnosed it was a faulty solenoid as it was out of warranty when the fault occurred but the gearbox under fill was found Fiat would pay for parts and he would have to pay for labour. Quite a big bill as most of the front of the van had to come off.

After the repair they took it for a test drive and it went wrong.
So now they have changed the gearbox, the torque converter & the gearbox ECU.
So it's fingers crossed.

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