Driving Licences

[moandick]

Just as an aside - and I know no further details than what one of my members has posted on my forum:

Hi all

Not sure if this would be a problem for any member, I was at a VOSA station the other day having a RV MOT'd and was approached by a Traffic Examiner.
He asked me what licence I was driving the RV on. I explained I have all groups HGV and have held it since 1971 and I ask him why he asked.
He said that they have had a notification that some RV drivers are driving vehicles over 7.5 tons on car licences and they are going to clamp down.
Just beware.

Regards
Nigel

IF it happens and IF someone gets sued - it should end any grey areas for once and all!

 

[Geo]

Licencing requirement is outside Vosa's remit so I cant see the connection:Sad:
It would require a Police officer to ask the question

 

[ginge61]

they have a lot more power now and can stop you on the road without a police car or a police officer ask any hgv driver so not sure if they can also ask for licence and normally there is the preverbil bobby about to help out should the need arise so you never know it gives them something else to do and get more money and 7,5 would be the limit pre 97 after that 3.5 t so depends on when test was completed be intresting to see

 

[moandick]

I hear what you say, Geo but Nigel did say a 'Traffic Examiner.'

I have no idea what or who that is - other than possibly one of these psuedo parking ticket wardens wearing a policemans uniform!

 

[Jim]

I wish someone would get nicked and taken to court for this. The resulting case law would sure make forums quieter places Also, a lot of people would either breathe easier or book themselves in for a test

However the CPS will probably chicken out again and it will never get to a court.

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[Smeagol]

Licencing requirement is outside Vosa's remit so I cant see the connection:Sad:
It would require a Police officer to ask the question

Afraid you are wrong, VOSA have been prosecuting driving licence offences for years.

Mark

 

[ginge61]

i have full hgv held the last 20 odd years so i dont worry not that mine comes into it but they all ways changing stuff so its something only a lawyer could tell you a jungle traffic examiner norm deal with tachos weighbridges gv9 and all that stuff also think some of them if not all can test too mot that is if you dont hold hgv stick to 7.5 or 3.5 depending on test pass year

 

[scotjimland]

The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) was created on 1 April 2003 by merging the Former Vehicle Inspectorate and the Traffic Area Network Division of the Department for Transport. VOSA is responsible for:

* Processing applications for licences to operate lorries and buses and registering bus services
* Operating and administering testing schemes for all vehicles, including the supervision of the MOT testing scheme
* Enforcing the law on vehicles to ensure that they comply with legal standards and regulations
* Enforcing drivers' hours and licensing requirements
* Supporting Traffic Commissioners to help them make informed decisions on operator licensing, vocational drivers and bus registration requirements
* Providing training and advice for commercial operators
* Investigating vehicle accident, defects and recalls.

 

[Smeagol]

I hear what you say, Geo but Nigel did say a 'Traffic Examiner.'

I have no idea what or who that is - other than possibly one of these psuedo parking ticket wardens wearing a policemans uniform!

Why do some people feel that they have to make derogatory remarks about people?

I was a Traffic Examiner for 13 years, and no I did not wear a uniform, neither did I issue parking tickets!

What I did do was enforce all legislation pertinent to LGV's and PCV's which, incidentally included many successful prosecutions for driving licence offences.

Mark

 

[ginge61]

thats not derogatory and id say you had been called more than that if you were doing that job not that its ment personaly but thats the job you choose just like most folks have names for jobs worths like the pcso plastic policemen ohhps person damm this political correctness when are people going to get a life and read what it says MOTORHOME FUN wheeltappers etc etc thats what we used to call you doing your job and parking us up for hours etc with no toilets food etc you wouldnt treet a dog like that but the minestry did and still do ?? its the only job where you get sent to jail for working over lol us and the ladies of the night so if you not doing the job forget about it and maybe you could find out of one of your buddies still doing it as it may be deemed usefull info to inocent folks trying to enjoy there hobby or lifestyle :thumb:

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[Smeagol]

thats not derogatory and id say you had been called more than that if you were doing that job not that its ment personaly but thats the job you choose just like most folks have names for jobs worths like the pcso plastic policemen ohhps person damm this political correctness when are people going to get a life and read what it says MOTORHOME FUN wheeltappers etc etc thats what we used to call you doing your job and parking us up for hours etc with no toilets food etc you wouldnt treet a dog like that but the minestry did and still do ?? its the only job where you get sent to jail for working over lol us and the ladies of the night so if you not doing the job forget about it and maybe you could find out of one of your buddies still doing it as it may be deemed usefull info to inocent folks trying to enjoy there hobby or lifestyle :thumb:

Exactly, MOTORHOME FUN, if your idea of fun is to belittle other peoples choice of job then I pity you. I have just realised why it has been nearly six months since I last visited this site.

Goodbye

 

[pappajohn]

Exactly, MOTORHOME FUN, if your idea of fun is to belittle other peoples choice of job then I pity you. I have just realised why it has been nearly six months since I last visited this site.

Goodbye

Ooops...think you hit a nerve, ginge61....

 

[dazzer]

Can someone please pick the dummy up off the floor and give it back to Smeagol, he seems to have spat it out




For crying out loud, belt up oh:

 

[ginge61]

no one is belittling any one for there choice of job just trying to have fun have you not ever called anyone a name for what they do they say there are two types of lorry drivers lol there are w------s and liers well i could never work out what most classed me as but i dont really care either way plastic policemen traffic vultures the list goes on but who cares ohh by the way the used to stop me in holyhead and speak welsh to each other ministry police etc thought i was a paddy wrong spoke back to them in welsh red faces all round lol i wasnt a paddy i was a taffy and the names they called me wernet the best so if thats how you feel tough but it is said with out maliace or contempt but thats the way of the world

 

[ginge61]

Ooops...think you hit a nerve, ginge61....

truth hurts now

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[Smeagol]

Ooops...think you hit a nerve, ginge61....

Thanks for the constructive contribution

Can someone please pick the dummy up off the floor and give it back to Smeagol, he seems to have spat it out




For crying out loud, belt up oh:

And thanks also for your constructive contribution

no one is belittling any one for there choice of job just trying to have fun have you not ever called anyone a name for what they do they say there are two types of lorry drivers lol there are w------s and liers well i could never work out what most classed me as but i dont really care either way plastic policemen traffic vultures the list goes on but who cares ohh by the way the used to stop me in holyhead and speak welsh to each other ministry police etc thought i was a paddy wrong spoke back to them in welsh red faces all round lol i wasnt a paddy i was a taffy and the names they called me wernet the best so if thats how you feel tough but it is said with out maliace or contempt but thats the way of the world

Seeing as you still live in the last century I suggest you go back there and learn to spell (the laughing smiley should make it all ok!!)

 

[Geo]

Afraid you are wrong, VOSA have been prosecuting driving licence offences for years.

Mark

The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) was created on 1 April 2003 by merging the Former Vehicle Inspectorate and the Traffic Area Network Division of the Department for Transport. VOSA is responsible for:

* Processing applications for licences to operate lorries and buses and registering bus services
* Operating and administering testing schemes for all vehicles, including the supervision of the MOT testing scheme
* Enforcing the law on vehicles to ensure that they comply with legal standards and regulations
* Enforcing drivers' hours and licensing requirements
* Supporting Traffic Commissioners to help them make informed decisions on operator licensing, vocational drivers and bus registration requirements
* Providing training and advice for commercial operators
* Investigating vehicle accident, defects and recalls.

Why do some people feel that they have to make derogatory remarks about people?

I was a Traffic Examiner for 13 years, and no I did not wear a uniform, neither did I issue parking tickets!

What I did do was enforce all legislation pertinent to LGV's and PCV's which, incidentally included many successful prosecutions for driving licence offences.

Mark

As alway I am prepared to bow to superior knowlege, but as i suspected Vosa's only interest is in the comercial sector as the above highlighted sections would appear to colabirate
What area of HGV,PCV,LGV or Drivers Hrs does a PLG RV Vehicle fall into, Non as far as I am aware and apart from vehicle safety and MoT compliance what interest are RVs and Private motorist to Vosa and or Traffic commissioners
Geo

 

[ginge61]

now is that the best answer you can come up with lol trying to belittle folks cause they cant spell typical minstry man try to have the last word but havent got a clue what they are on about go out to the universty of life it is out there and its huge just like the net live life it goes on .

 

[norsman]

Licences

Hi,
We all know the licence requirement. depending on your own personal time of learning to drive or your age you are either restricted to 7.5t or 3.5t. Why is there a discussion, if you don`t hold a licence for the group of vehicle you are driving then you are illegal and as far as i know you have no insurance either.
I have come across several people driving RV type vehicles clearly over 7.5t on only a car licence. Where is the defence if something goes wrong. Whoever is involved in the same accident will be trying to deal with someone without insurance.
The people who tow cars behind 7.5t vehicles should also be aware of the need to hold a LGV licence when the tow car is over 750kg.
Sorry for the rant but some of us have spent a lot of time and money learning and getting experience of LGV`s and for others to think they have a given right to drive anything they like just because it is a pleasure thing is in my mind totaly wrong.
I drive a 7.5t American A class RV and tow a Mercedes Vito Dualiner taking the weight to around 9t or so, things like this shouldn`t be in untrained hands.
rant over
Norsman

 

[moandick]

Well said, Norseman - however there are some people, very learned and full of legal knowledge, who can tell you of some very convincing reasons why it is possible to drive a heavy vehicle on a car licence.

These arguments have been gone over and over ad nauseum - in great detail and nobody has yet been able to disprove them for once and all.

EVERYBODY (in the RV business) AGREES THAT IT ACTUALLY NEEDS A COURT CASE to prove or disprove which licence is needed to drive an RV - or whether you forget the type of vehicle (RV, HGV, PSV) and simply register it by weight (under or over 7½ tons) - which is what VOSA is trying to do.

As far as I am concerned - the sooner that court case takes place, the better.

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[scotjimland]

The Crown prosecution service dropped the only case they ever started to bring (after going to court 3 times and adjourning)
Mark Bishop from Travelworld, in huge American RV, in 3rd lane of motorway, evidence on film, police on ground, and he signed a statement admitting he was driving on ordinary car licence...

What I would like to see is a licence introduced for large motor homes ie, over 3.5t
With proper training in your own vehicle and with a test conducted in your own vehicle.. that is not possible at present ..

 

[ginge61]

Hi,
We all know the licence requirement. depending on your own personal time of learning to drive or your age you are either restricted to 7.5t or 3.5t. Why is there a discussion, if you don`t hold a licence for the group of vehicle you are driving then you are illegal and as far as i know you have no insurance either.
I have come across several people driving RV type vehicles clearly over 7.5t on only a car licence. Where is the defence if something goes wrong. Whoever is involved in the same accident will be trying to deal with someone without insurance.
The people who tow cars behind 7.5t vehicles should also be aware of the need to hold a LGV licence when the tow car is over 750kg.
Sorry for the rant but some of us have spent a lot of time and money learning and getting experience of LGV`s and for others to think they have a given right to drive anything they like just because it is a pleasure thing is in my mind totaly wrong.
I drive a 7.5t American A class RV and tow a Mercedes Vito Dualiner taking the weight to around 9t or so, things like this shouldn`t be in untrained hands.
rant over
Norsman

well said :thumb:

 

[colpot]

You read about drivers exeeding their hours, driving overweight and dangerous vehicles or not even possessing a licence. Personally I think the examiners are there to ensure the safety of our roads, and if this is an inconvenience then so be it. As Jim says, if it makes people drive in accordance with their licence then all well and good.

 

[ginge61]

You read about drivers exeeding their hours, driving overweight and dangerous vehicles or not even possessing a licence. Personally I think the examiners are there to ensure the safety of our roads, and if this is an inconvenience then so be it. As Jim says, if it makes people drive in accordance with their licence then all well and good.

thats correct yes but make sure you know your gvtw and check your licence for the next time they pull you in which they are intitled to do as thousands of folks licences have run out
ie the new picture card one the have a life of ten years only it is so easy to load up your camper with stuff and ohhps your over weight it doesnt take a lot they dont only check hgv drivers

 

[Geo]

What people seem to have forgotten
Once upon a time when we all had paper licences Motorhomes had there very own classification, and were different from all other classes of vehicle,your full car licence entitled you to drive a Motorhome of any weight as the classification was I believe "Heavy Motor Car"
During the re shuffling of paper and plastic licences, re classification of vehicles and weight limits, the poor old Motor home classification was lost in the translation, and in my opinion was and is wrongly lumped in with the weight limits on other mostly commercial vehicles.
Technically in my opinion a licence to drive what was the Motorhome does not now exists,(in line with the G Telford therory I know) so in my opinion no one has the correct licence to dive a motohome over 3.5 ton because ther aint one
Out on our puplic roads right now are 100s if not thousands of HGV drivers legaly driving 30 ton plus vehicles and they have never taken a HGV test, how? because they were granted certain rights based on past experiance and employment when the HGV classes were all messed about with
they were granted such rights because the facility was not in place to make compulsary testing for all those that had never done a test, also it would have stripped the transport companies of drivers, and the country would have ground to a halt.
I see no difference in granting the same privelages to those of us who had the right to drive Heavy Motorcars of any weight, pre licence shake ups, to those Lorry Drivers STILL driving to day, having never taken a test other than a full car licence
and simular to the rights granted to us wrinklies to drive upto 7.5 ton
I also suspect that a complicated change of law would be required to enforce the Motor home weight restriction now trying to be imposed on us, due to the failure to include Heavy Motor cars in a new class, and that is possibly why no case has been taken to court or ever will be
they want it to fade away utill the only people driving took there test after 1990 and cant remember what the old rules were
So even though my RV is under 7.5 Ton and this issue dosent afect me personaly
I still belive there are some out there who have a legal right to drive heavier RVs on a Heavy Motor Car entitlement thathas not and can not be revoked and should not because of a clerical cock up that happend a long time ago that no one will put their hands up to
Geo
Rant Over:thumb:

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[norsman]

Licence

Hi Geo,
I think and I may be wrong but the people granted a licence to drive what was then HGV vehicles through "Grandfather Rights" will nearly all be passed retirement age by now and would not make up any significant number of Truck drivers on the road now. As i said I might be wrong but it seems an awful long time ago now.
My point is purely one of safety and driving ability, I have seen some of these people in a field I shudder to think what they are like on a road.
Norsman

 

[scotjimland]

I have seen some of these people in a field I shudder to think what they are like on a road.
Norsman

You see bad driving every day on the road by car users, bad truck driving is just as common, especially by foreign plated trucks, overtaking on third lane on M ways, cutting up, hogging two lanes, swaying onto hard shoulder, ramming into cars .. as far as manoeuvring a large RV on a tight site, is that part of the LGV/HGV training.. ? of course it isn't, just as there is no compulsory training and test for manoeuvring a caravan on a site, it takes a lot of practice.. we have all witnessed someone making a hash of it .. but didn't condemn them as a bad or dangerous driver... or illegal !

As I said earlier, there is a case for RV training and sitting a test in an RV for an RV licence.

 

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
I think and I may be wrong but the people granted a licence to drive what was then HGV vehicles through "Grandfather Rights" will nearly all be passed retirement age by now and would not make up any significant number of Truck drivers on the road now. As i said I might be wrong but it seems an awful long time ago now.
My point is purely one of safety and driving ability, I have seen some of these people in a field I shudder to think what they are like on a road.
Norsman

I know a few personally I I am one individual
The point is they are out there, I'm not suggesting for one second their unsafe, just that when the Motor home was designated a Heavy Motor Car we could drive them on our car licence regardless of weight, and they were and still are designated Class 4 for MoT testing purposes regardless of weight so whats changed, an admin cock up thats all, No one gave a thought about Motorhomes when dishing out the new classes of vehicles
I'm with Jim on this one
I see absolutely no point in sitting a computerised hazard perception test, if 20 -40 years driving on real roads hasn't honed your perception nothing will
OK lets say I'm an ordinary Car driver (the biggest thing Ive driven is a Vauxhall Ventura)
Assuming I learn the script and past the hazard test, thats all it really is isn't it
I'm then taken out in a right hand drive lorry that bears no relation to driving an RV whatsoever, I pass that test:thumb:
Then I can "legally" go buy my 12 Ton left hand drive Monaco and that make me a much safer driver-------------Not in my book
Forget your PS2 hazard games, if you have a full car licence take your RV with a qualified driver beside you and L plates to a ministry testing station and go out with a suitably qualified examiner for an Hr or two and if he's happy, he then signs you off and hey presto as if by magic a Fully Legal and Safe RV driver:thumb:
Too easy, it does not require an office full of quangos to run it, so it will never happen.
it was a nice thought while it lasted
Geo

 

[carol ilfracombe]

Just as an aside - and I know no further details than what one of my members has posted on my forum:

Hi all

Not sure if this would be a problem for any member, I was at a VOSA station the other day having a RV MOT'd and was approached by a Traffic Examiner.
He asked me what licence I was driving the RV on. I explained I have all groups HGV and have held it since 1971 and I ask him why he asked.
He said that they have had a notification that some RV drivers are driving vehicles over 7.5 tons on car licences and they are going to clamp down.
Just beware.

Regards
Nigel

IF it happens and IF someone gets sued - it should end any grey areas for once and all!

I had to send my paper license in the other day as i was reminded it is a 1000.00 fine for not notifying of new address. i was very surprised on its return to find i am licensed to tow with a medium and large size van but only because i passed my test way back in 1969. apparently you now have to have training and your license altered to tow if you passed your test in recent years. i wonder if younger Motorhome drivers and Caravaners know this? Carol Slinn.

 

[moandick]

Assuming I learn the script and past the hazard test, thats all it really is isn't it
I'm then taken out in a right hand drive lorry that bears no relation to driving an RV whatsoever, I pass that test:thumb:
Then I can "legally" go buy my 12 Ton left hand drive Monaco and that make me a much safer driver-------------Not in my book
Geo

That's the way that I remember it, too, just five years ago. I climbed out of a right-hand drive, 22 ton articulated lorry equipped with a 16 speed manual gearbox - after being tested on my ability to rope and sheet a load, disconnect and re-connect a trailer (checking the King-Pin), discuss what hours I can drive and what breaks I must take - and how to operate a tachograph and what to do when somebody wants to take it off of me.

I then climbed into my left-hand drive Monaco where I really have to concentrate hard to remember which gear I am in when I approach a roundabout - after all, I do have three buttons on my 'gear pad' to worry about - one which I have to press when I want to go forward, one to press when I want to go backwards and one to press when I want to stop!

Of course, I don't have to worry about roping and sheeting or disconnecting my trailer or worrying about the King Pin or what hours I can or cannot drive or the HGV speed limits or the tachograph or who can or can't take it off me. I have never driven an HGV except for taking my test five years ago and now that I am 65 years old, I really doubt that anyone would let me drive one anyway! oh: oh: oh:

I have been arguing for several years that we should have a proper motorhome test for larger vehicles BUT THE CURRENT HGV TEST IS NOT THE CORRECT TEST FOR US!

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