Driving licence (1 Viewer)

[sedge]

Just behind my right shoulder is precisely the place where my blind spot IS. Funnily enough it has been EXACTLY the same with every car I have ever driven whilst learning to drive and ever since. I have driven about a dozen different makes and models, including two estate cars, but never towed or driven anything bigger than a Peugeot 405 though, so I suppose other vehicles may not have these perpetual blind spots.

However my dad had a blind spot, father in law had one, both husbands and both daughters have it too as did my sister and brother in law, plus every other relative and friend in whose vehicle I have ever been a passenger. And despite having no bodywork - everyone who rides a bile, motorbike or tractor, ALL seem to have them. No Way could you pass a motorbike test from 125cc upwards, without performing aforesaid lifesavers. And even if you did somehow pass without doing them, I wouldn't want to be anywhere in the vicinity of the road you happened to be on thanks, since I don't consider you are safe on the road frankly.

That is the first time ever I have heard anyone say they haven't got one.

Your eyesight must be bloody weird mate! - or maybe you've lost your peripheral vision anyway so you aren't even aware of having a blindspot?

I should get that checked if I were you before someone in your blindspot wipes you out ....

 

[Larrynwin]

I'll put my hand up then.

SWMBO's Dad had a stroke at the age of 82yrs and as a result lost most of the use of his right side function. Prior to this he was completely right side dominant.

After a period of time he said that he was going to drive again. It was pointed out to him that his car was a manual gearbox and as gently as we could, we pointed out to him that he would not be safe driving.
Cantankerous old sod that he was, he continued to insist that he was going to recommence driving so I 'blobbed' him to his Dr. and also to DVLA who took his licence off him.

I've got a clear conscience about it.

That was the right thing to do in the interest of all concerned , without your action there could have been a nasty ending.

 

[Larrynwin]

The other side of the argument is what would be said if someone reported a driver to the DVLA and they didn't act on the information.
Imagine the headlines "DVLA ignored reports of unsafe driver who kills 6 at bus stop".
I think they have a duty of care to act and investigate - after all they have only (in this case) asked for a report, they haven't issued a ban just on someone's complaint.

I agree that action should be taken but how can malicious reports be avoided before a licence is revoked, perhaps knowledge of the person reporting would avoid that but then opens a whole new can of worms for families.

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[sdc77]

I think those defending motorcyclists and cyclists looking over their shoulder are barking up the wrong tree. They have no option.
All the people so far have used the phrase or quoted it "looking over your right shoulder" .
In a modern car with working mirrors you shouldn't have to do that unless you're stationary. Of course you can glance to your right and no one's suggesting you don't.
If you're driving correctly then you will know what's going on around you .. front side and rear. If you don't. . Then there's possibly an accident waiting for you somewhere. That's why driving can be quite tiring. As people on here know .. it requires concentration.

 

[TheBig1]

only a swivel eyed loon or certain reptiles have no need to move their head to glance over their right shoulder. i do wonder how some folk ever got a driving licence. free at the bottom of a box of cornflakes maybe

 

[pappajohn]

You are glancing over your right shoulder, not turning round.

meanwhile, you are looking to the side and back instead of watching the road ahead.
Using Mirrors needs nothing more than a slight eye movement but your field of vision will still see the the car in front brake or perform some other manoeuvre even when looking in the mirror.....you wont see that happen looking sideways or behind.

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[Puddleduck]

I agree that action should be taken but how can malicious reports be avoided before a licence is revoked, perhaps knowledge of the person reporting would avoid that but then opens a whole new can of worms for families.

Quite a lot of information has to be given to the DVLA when reporting a possible problem, both about the person reporting and the person being reported. I would hope that would be enough to discourage most malicious reports .... and the licence isn't revoked at that stage but the driver is sent a form to complete and then may have to have a medical depending on the DVLA's medical board's review of the form.

 

[mariner]

I think those defending motorcyclists and cyclists looking over their shoulder are barking up the wrong tree. They have no option.
All the people so far have used the phrase or quoted it "looking over your right shoulder" .
In a modern car with working mirrors you shouldn't have to do that unless you're stationary. Of course you can glance to your right and no one's suggesting you don't.
If you're driving correctly then you will know what's going on around you .. front side and rear. If you don't. . Then there's possibly an accident waiting for you somewhere. That's why driving can be quite tiring. As people on here know .. it requires concentration.

My point entirely if you need to swivel your head to look over your shoulder behind you, to see if anyone is there it is because, up to that point, you have not been paying attention.
In all the vehicles I was taught to drive in, if I were turn my head to look over my shoulder, all I would see is the inside of the cab.

 

[Larrynwin]

Rule 133 of the Highway code

Rule 133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.


I think this indicates that mirrors alone cannot be the only observation when changing your position in the road whether changing lanes or moving off.
There are blind spots with mirrors and it would be dangerous not to glance sideways and rely completely upon mirrors.
Personally I would always glance sideways as above, belt and braces

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[mariner]

Rule 133 of the Highway code

Rule 133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.


I think this indicates that mirrors alone cannot be the only observation when changing your position in the road whether changing lanes or moving off.
There are blind spots with mirrors and it would be dangerous not to glance sideways and rely completely upon mirrors.
Personally I would always glance sideways as above, belt and braces

Good advice!
But glancing sideways does not involve turning your head and looking over your shoulder, as some seem to think!

 

[pappajohn]

If you use mirrors properly you should already be aware of whats behind you long before moving out.
As much time looking ahead should also be spent looking in mirrors.
A cursory glance is all thats need to keep you aware of your surroundings.

If a car cannot be seen either slightly ahead of your mirror or not visible in your mirror it is not there to start with.

 

[SuperMike]

If you drive a LHD vehicle in this country (some Motorhomes) then looking over your shoulder is of no value, when pulling out, and so you have to rely on correctly placed and adjusted mirrors and in my case, five rearward cameras, two each side and one on the back. All simultaneously feeding a 21" monitor below the window on the right hand side. And, before you ask, nobody sits there to block it's view, in fact there is no seat, 'cos I took it out. I had to take out the seatbelt as well, because the MOT man got confused.

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[Tea Bag]

Hi,
Me ? Belt and braces man,turn the head,have been known,and still do,look through the window in the sliding door of the M/h at an awkward junction,when cabs had small windows in the back,they were a godsend, at a busy intersection in Belgium,it was only seeing the cars Radio arial that stopped me from pulling over,i had missed it in the two mirrors,despite closely watching both mirrors,i was in a RHD lorry.
This "You do,you don't"..... Do you turn your head slightly to look in your "Near side mirror?" No prizes for guessing the answer.LOL
Tea Bag.
PS. There will allways be the vehicle,who is cutting in from an outside lane at the last minute...THIS is the one you miss in your mirror,as in the case above

 

[knokinonabit]

Broken Link Removed


Have a look.

Edit : I used to be a driving instructor.

 

[Movinon]

If you drive a LHD vehicle in this country (some Motorhomes) then looking over your shoulder is of no value, when pulling out, and so you have to rely on correctly placed and adjusted mirrors and in my case, five rearward cameras, two each side and one on the back. All simultaneously feeding a 21" monitor below the window on the right hand side. And, before you ask, nobody sits there to block it's view, in fact there is no seat, 'cos I took it out. I had to take out the seatbelt as well, because the MOT man got confused.

I've been looking at this very problem and have a camera sitting under my nearside wing mirror. But I haven't been able to find one which isn't a wide-angle reversing camera, limiting the usefulness. What camera types are you using?

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[Gooney]

I raised the post about looking over your right shoulder, at the time I took my driving assessment I had held my full licence for 53 years and was as surprised as anyone to be told about the need to show an exaggerated effort to prove to an examiner I was actually looking to my right. Me being me argued the toss with the assessor but was told dismiss the advice at my own peril. When I retook my test I got an A pass BUT the examiner also said I could have been a bit more positive with my over shoulder glances, as he had to watch me a couple of times to ensure I was actually looking into the blind spot. Now you can accept this as true but you longer term licence holders, as me, ignore it and if you ever have to re take your tests it will count as a demerit in the totting up score for a pass.

 

[Gooney]

The life saver is in fact being aware to what's going on around you at all times and using your mirrors correctly in order to know what's behind or to the side of you . I can't believe people are being taught to .. in effect.. look backwards.

Nobody mentioned looking backwards, to the best of my knowledge that's a trick only an Owl can perform or a little girl in the Exorcist.

 

[mariner]

Broken Link Removed


Have a look.

Edit : I used to be a driving instructor.

Yes, all very nice but the only picture I could see explaining why the driver is looking back over their shoulder is when they are preparing to move from a stationary position, which is quite right! Which you should also do before opening your door into moving traffic.
So you are saying, that as a Driving Instructor you taught your students to to look to the rear over their shoulders when making an overtaking manoeuvre!

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[Gromett]

Having just taken a test recently I can tell you that you are most definitely marked down if you don't check your blind spots, This involves looking over your shoulder.
Not looking backward, but looking to the right.

 

[Gooney]

I think failure to accept the need to look over your shoulder is being perpetuated by the older drivers amongst us because when we originally took our tests many years ago wing mirrors were exactly that, they were fitted further up front On THE WINGS, the further forward the mirror is more of the side of your vehicle is displayed, these modern door mounted mirrors do create Blindspots and consequently driving styles have needed to be modified.

 

[knokinonabit]

@mariner you still say look to the rear, when it is a glance over your right shoulder.
You are the only one who has said that so far.
Please read posts #46 and #47 above your last post.

By the way, do you still think that I am severely deformed because I can turn my head and see over my shoulder ?

Please feel free to drive any way that you see fit as I don't instruct anymore and don't mind what you do as long as it is safe.
We have highjacked this thread long enough and Jim will be along soon to send is to his new thread highjack sin bin.

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[sdc77]

Sorry looking backward over your shoulder when driving forward in a car or van is just not a safe thing to do.. no matter how many people try and justify it.

 

[Gooney]

Sorry looking backward over your shoulder when driving forward in a car or van is just not a safe thing to do.. no matter how many people try and justify it.

See post #51

 

[Yorick]

In my Transit there is a huge blind spot, no matter how I position the mirror.
In UK I needed to have a long look to the right and behind.

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[mariner]

Your shoulders are already behind your eye line, you can turn your head and look along your shoulders but you cannot look over your shoulder, without looking to the rear!
It is a physical impossibility, unless of course you are looking into a mirror!

 

[Jaws]

I do know that if I turn my head to look over my shoulder, whilst in a forward motion, I will be marked down for not being in proper control of a moving vehicle.
A glance to the right does not involve looking over your right shoulder, unless of course, one is seriously deformed!

Seriously hope I never have the misfortune to try and perform an overtake manoeuvre on you whilst on my bike.

A) you are travelling too fast for your driving ability as anyone who feels they are causing a danger to either others or their selves by looking round at the traffic environment they are in is beyond their safety zone

B) if you fail to make observations over you right shoulder you are risking other people's lives .. Which is why it is a fail on the driving test

 

[mariner]

My fear is that people in motor vehicles travelling at speed in a forward motion are too busy turning to look at what's behind them, instead of what is in front of them.
That is why they invented driving mirrors, which are not just meant for use when you want to overtake.
If that's what they are doing I would prefer them to be in front of me not behind.

A classic is at a round about where they are behind a car about to enter the roundabout. They are not looking forward they are looking to their right. Next thing they have shunted the car in front because they had assumed it had gone. Always be aware of what is going on around you. It is not rocket science.
I have 51 years of accident free driving because I was taught, by an Army instructor to drive aware, when I was 17.
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in many countries and am not accident free by luck!

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[Larrynwin]

I think failure to accept the need to look over your shoulder is being perpetuated by the older drivers amongst us because when we originally took our tests many years ago wing mirrors were exactly that, they were fitted further up front On THE WINGS, the further forward the mirror is more of the side of your vehicle is displayed, these modern door mounted mirrors do create Blindspots and consequently driving styles have needed to be modified.

I disagree, I was a driving instructor for five years in the mid/late sixties and wing mirrors, if fitted, were not part of the car test , it was the interior rear view mirror and observation to left and right by looking, you got it, over your shoulder .
As an older driver I still practice what I preached and disagree that "failure to accept the need to look over your shoulder is being perpetuated by older drivers".
It is older drivers that needed to do it as the mirrors of yesteryear were nothing compared to mirrors of today , infact few were convex and gave a very limited rear view.

 

[Gromett]

My fear is that people in motor vehicles travelling at speed in a forward motion are too busy turning to look at what's behind them, instead of what is in front of them.

I think you are misrepresenting what we are saying? When you are driving along there is no need to look over your shoulder. However if you are about to overtake, a quick glance to your right to ensure your blind spot is clear is not "being too busy turning to look at what's behind them". It is ensuring the space you are about to move into is clear and that you haven't missed anything. It takes less than a second and you do it when your attention forward is not critical. Common sense applies.

51 years accident free? That's to be congratulated, however you either never overtake or have been extremely lucky with your blind spots. I never underestimate the value of luck

PS: I took my first driving test in 99, my second in 07 and my third in 15. On all of them the blind spot check was obligatory. It is not a fashion thing.

 

[Gooney]

My fear is that people in motor vehicles travelling at speed in a forward motion are too busy turning to look at what's behind them, instead of what is in front of them.
That is why they invented driving mirrors, which are not just meant for use when you want to overtake.
If that's what they are doing I would prefer them to be in front of me not behind.

A classic is at a round about where they are behind a car about to enter the roundabout. They are not looking forward they are looking to their right. Next thing they have shunted the car in front because they had assumed it had gone. Always be aware of what is going on around you. It is not rocket science.
I have 51 years of accident free driving because I was taught, by an Army instructor to drive aware, when I was 17.
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in many countries and am not accident free by luck!

And yet again your going on about looking behind, your the only one going on about that, the point has been made time and time again, looking over your shoulder to look into the blind spot!!, might be appropriate, "there's no so blind that those who will not see"

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