Driving Licence Entitlement

[Baldrick]

I thought these links would be of interest to you

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19962824_en_1.htm

See schedule 2 for categories.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_1.htm.

See part III reg 87(1) for the offence.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/ukpga_19880053_en_1

See schedule 2 part 1 for the penalty.

It is clear to me that a prosecution would easily succeed if the correct licence is not held.

What do you think ?

Mark

 

[ukrv]

drumroll please...........











he's on the way........................










ladies and gentlemen.............................











I give you........................................











GT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









Come on then George.

Paul

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Paul

Marks post is accurate, cites the correct legislation and he as not made any false assumptions based on that legislation, I only wish more posts could be that well presented.

Paul Could you please give me a clue regarding to what you think is wrong?

 

[Adria 5]

drumroll please...........











he's on the way........................










ladies and gentlemen.............................











I give you........................................











GT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









Come on then George.

Paul

i like it

 

[Geo]

if the correct licence is not held.

Correct, and there lies the but of the arguments and disscusions, nothing has changed as a result of this post, if im thinking on the same lines as GT,
tell me if im wrong George
Geo

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[ukrv]

Paul Could you please give me a clue regarding to what you think is wrong?

Hi George,

Nothing is "wrong" - I was simply building-up your arrival on the thread. :thumb:

Let's face it, it's not a topic you could refuse joining in with is it.

Paul

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Paul

Then why even reply?, Mark (Baldrick) made a perfect post, it made an accurate point "if the correct licence is not held." and then presented evidence to support it, it did not contain any contentious issues like driving a 12 Tonne motorhome on a B licence is ilegal and as such it required no reply or additions and in my view it has been spoilt by needless replies.

 

[ukrv]

in my view it has been spoilt by needless replies

George

1) You need to get a sense of humour

2) Your writing "style" is starting to p*ss people off. Some of us weren't happy that you came onto the site (given your history elsewhere) but you did start in a pleasant manner. However, the "old" George is now back on many threads and I would ask that you have a little respect for other people on the forum.

Thanks
Paul

 

[Road Runner]

George

I have not posted since you joined the forum and wont (my loss sadly)

You were point blank ignorant to me on another forum and continued to be till you got your marching orders because others were pi$$ed off by you to.

Paul has made a pleasant suggestion to you and if I were you would listen and learn

 

[Lindy-C]

Hi John
Good to see you back - we missed you

Sorry...........straying off topic :Blush:

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[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Paul

I have continued in a pleasant manner, your first post in this thread was trying to incite and stir, all I did was ask what you thought was wrong with Baldricks post as you obviously assumed I was going to repsond for some reason.

Sorry but I still cannot see what your initial reply is meant to achieve.

My last word on the subject, if you want to argue go elsewhere I am not interested.

 

[ukrv]

Hi George

You have a lot of knowledge to share (though just how much is Googled has been debated elsewhere).

Please share it in the light-hearted manner the forum has been set-up for.

Others have said in the past how much you can add to a forum - unfortunately, if the PMs Ive been getting over the last 20 minutes are anything to go by, then you could be on dodgy ground here too.

So, again, please have some respect for others on the forum when you make your post.

Of course you will have a different opinion to many people - we are all different - but it's just the "style" you use which people find offensive.

My original post on this thread was humorous (obviously you didn't see that side of it). Sadly, it is the only way to deal with your presense here at the moment as any other way leads into never ending arguments and nit-picking.

I too will leave it here and allow the Admin team to decide how to proceed with things.

Paul

 

[moandick]

Sorry, Paul but your reputation for trouble-making and rabble-rousing preceeds you - and there is no way you can sit back with your hands in the air protesting your innocence.

Like George, I too, saw a certain amount of sarcasm in your reply to a post which I saw as perfectly good and informative.

I have actually copied the post for information on my stall when I attend RV Shows and I thank the person responsible for bringing it to our attention.

Dick

 

[ukrv]

Hi Dick

As you know, I will state things how I see them - though I don't think you will find any of my posts that are personally vindictive.

So OK, I will knock certain dealers - in fact, I will openly call them liars when they are lying (non have sued me yet have they!!).

Unfortunately, on this site, as I stated earlier GeorgeT has gone from a refreshingly new GeorgeT to his old self in a very short space of time.

In the space of 20 minutes this morning, Ive had a few PMs about him.

Perhaps my willingness to stand-up to people (often confused with trouble-making and rabble-rousing) is the reason for those PMs.

I won't obviously name those senders but here are some of the comments Ive received :-

"I have stopped posting on the board now this ar$ehole is here. He has upset xxxxx to."

"He was really rude to me on another site."

"I'm seriously thinking of not posting till he's gone. I know nothing of his history and I know that sometimes posts can be inaccurate and it is perfectly acceptable to correct these. But GT's replies at times I find very offensive."

"Another user has contacted jimjam on this subject."

"I cannot stand the bloke after I had a run in with him on MHF.......arrogant twit that he is!"

I think it now best to leave it until JimJam is back from York.

Paul

 

[justme AKA Grath]

On a lighter side!
Who needs a driving licence?
Our Polish friends don't seem to need one

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[Baldrick]

Correct, and there lies the but of the arguments and disscusions, nothing has changed as a result of this post, if im thinking on the same lines as GT,
tell me if im wrong George
Geo

Okay, I give in what does this cryptic reply mean?

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Mark

I believe that Geo spotted that its "the correct licence" that is the usual bone of contention ie I think that both sides accept that an incorrect licence will result in prosecution.

The two sides however disagree about which is the right licence for a large American Motorhome.

My personal belief is that the law doesnt require anything more than a car licence to drive a large American motorhome, but although the law doesnt require it, I think that in most peoples cases the extra training to get the higher licence would be benificial (many people with car licences cannot in my view even handle a car properly)

This is however only my understanding of what Geo meant........

 

[Baldrick]

Hi George, thanks for that. Do you not think that motorhome. RV. Motorcaravan or whatever thay may be called all come under the wording in the regulation 'Any Motor Vehicle' ?

Your comments would be most appreciated to help me decide for myself.

Thanks

Mark

 

[Supertractorman]

GT,

I totally agree with you regarding training for driving RV's, only last week I had to take to the verge in a Coach because an RV was over the line on my side of the road. Luckily I had slowed down as I could see what was going to happen.
Dealers who stick large signs on RV's for sale saying " ONLY CAR LICENCE REQUIRED " in my view would be better off saying " Free Training Course to Safely Drive".

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Baldrick

Its complicated, but in the simplist form the legislation allows for Goods vehicles over 7.5 Tonnes and Buses.

C&U Marsham confirm that a motorhome is NOT a goods vehicle

If it were a goods vehicle it would have to have a Tacho by Law, VOSA confirm that its not a goods vehicle and so doesnt have to have a Tacho, also tellingly its NOT on the list of excluded vehicles (ie certain goods vehicles are exempt)

It doesnt require the Goods vehicle MOT test

It doesnt require Goods vehicle Plating

Licencing law specifically mentions Goods vehicles (although DVLA are hiding as many traces of that as possible in their documents)

The only case ever to go to court was dropped, I spoke with The Crown Prosecution service about this case and they could not adequately explain under what law they were trying to prosecute, they had ample evidence Plod on ground and a written statement from the driver who only had a standard car licence and yet they dropped the case eventually due to lack of evidence (I asked whethor the evidence had gone missing and they admitted not) what more evidence was needed than a confession and police witnesses?

Also if you wade through the legislation you will see clearly that it was always written as goods vehicle (remember the old licence wiuth the lorry pictogram?) they have gradually removed goods vehicle from subsequent legislation BUT have not listed it as a change this bit is complicated to explain in laymans terms, but each amendment must clearly list the changes from previous law so that there can be no doubt that the law as changed.

Weight is clearly not the benchmark, as a minibus can weigh 16 tonnes (and more in actual fact it could weigh 44 tonnes as long as the required axles are fitted) and still be legal on a car licence and yet DVLA without being able to back it with any legislation claim that ANY vehicle over 7.5 tonnes requires higher licencing.

PS I had a long series of conversations with DVLA legal bods and they could never furnish me with the legislation to back their claims, further they would put nothing in writing other than their standard and incorrect leaflets.

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[GeorgeTelford]

Just out of interest have a look at this and see how many times goods vehicle is mentioned......

Note that each change of law item by item is clearly listed at the beginning

And remember that as far as Marsham are concerned a motorhome is NOT a goods vehicle.

 

[justme AKA Grath]

Mot

Hi Folks,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't big RVs need to go to the ministry testing station for an MOT due to their size and not physically possible to get onto normal garage MOT bays for brake testing? (rolling road)

 

[scotjimland]

Hi Folks,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't big RVs need to go to the ministry testing station for an MOT due to their size and not physically possible to get onto normal garage MOT bays for brake testing? (rolling road)

Local councils have their own MOT testing stations for council vehicles (i.e. buses and ambulances), these test centres are open to the general public. As they only carry out tests, and not repairs, there’s no incentive to find faults that don’t exist, I used Chelmsford last time.

Aberdeenshire
Inverurie
01467 627538
Aberdeenshire
Mintlaw
01771 623197
Aberdeenshire
Stonehaven
01569 763274
Barnet
Mill Hill Depot, London
02083 595103
Bedfordshire
County Council Vehicle Depot, London Rd, Bedford
08453 656150
Bristol
Sandy Park Rd, Brislington, Bristol
01179 036 319
Cambridge
City Services Transport Depot, Mill Rd, CB1 2AZ
01223 458265
Carmathenshire
Trostre Depot, Llanelli
01554 784138
Ceredigion
Glanyrafon Ind Est, Llanbadam, Aberysthwyth, Cerdigion,
01970 636713
Crewe & Nantwich
Direct Services, Pyms Lane
01270 537777
Croydon
Factory Lane
02082 552758
Derbyshire
County Transport, Ripley Rd, Ambergate
01773 856667
Derbyshire
County Transport, Brimington Rd North, Chesterfield
01246 405705
Derbyshire
County Transport, Halstead Garage, Buxton
01298 813141
Doncaster
Vehicle & Plant, North Bridge, Doncaster, DN5 9AN
01302 736851
Dorset
Wanchard Lane, DT2 9RP
01305 228132
Edinburgh
CEC Fleet Services, Gorgie, Russel Rd
01313 372307
Essex
Coval Lane, Chelmsford
01245 435108
Essex
Vehicle Servicing, Westside Centre, London Rd, Stanway, Colchester
01206 282624
Fife
Fleet Services, Denburn Yrd, KY1 2HD
01592 414141
Gloucestershire
Swindon Rd Depot, Cheltenham
01242 264184
Guildford
Woking Road
01483 445091
Gwent
Newport Transport, 150 Corporation Rd, Newport
01633 220044
Halifax
Amos Fleet, Battinson Rd
01422 355419
Harrogate
Claro Rd
01423 556877
Hounslow
Bridge Rd Depot, Pears Rd, TW3 1SQ
02085 835430
Surrey
Reigate and Bansted Council
01737 276650
Lanarkshire
Old Edinburgh Rd, Bellshill, ML4 3JF
01698 506284
Leicester
84 Syston Street East, Cobden Industrial Estate, LE1 2JW
01162 519185
Luton
Central Depot
01582 546839
Merseyside
Hardshaw Brook Depot, Parr Street, St Helens
01744 456757
Middlesbrough
Cargo Fleet Lane
01642 264586
Northumberland
Northumberland, County Council, Morpeth
01670 510153
Nottinghamshire
Rolleston Drive Workshops, Arnold, Nottingham
01159 567420
Oldham
Operational Services Depot, Moorhey Street
01619 11 4446
Oxfordshire
Thorpe Lane Depot, Cherwell
01295 221940
Redcar & Cleveland
Limerick Rd, Dormanstown
01642 444979
South Ayshire
McCalls Avenure, AYR
01292 267802
South Gloucestershire
BRd Lane, Yate
01454 863920
Southampton
Albert Rd North (City Council)
02380 834362
Stockton-on-tees
Cowpen Lane Depot, Cowpen Lane, Billingham, TS23 4DD
01642 527167
Suffolk
Lodge Lane, Great Blackenham, Nr Ipswich
01473 588600
Suffolk
Rougham, Industrial Estate, Bury St Edmunds
01359 270777
Suffolk
Blythe Rd Industrial Estate,Halesworth
01984 874427
Sussex
Colas
01273 815850
Swindon
Thamesdown Bus Depot, Corporation Street
01634 306000
Tower Hamlets
Tower Hamlets Vehicle Workshop
02073 641069
Wandsworth

02088 716761
West Dunbartonshire
Richmond Street, Clydebank
01389 738741
West Lothian

01506 775000
West Sussex
Accord, Bedbridge Heath Depot, Worthing Rd, Horsham
01403 211246
Wigan
Hindley Depot
01942 404371
Worcester
Six Ways Depot
01905 753000
York
Hospital Fields Rd
01904 541888

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Folks,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't big RVs need to go to the ministry testing station for an MOT due to their size and not physically possible to get onto normal garage MOT bays for brake testing? (rolling road)

Yes or like Jim as listed local councils own testing places, but its still a class IV car MOT not a goods vehicle test

 

[justme AKA Grath]

Thanks for that info ScotJimland.
I always thought that with such big vehicles you would have to take them to a Ministery Goods Veh testing station, for the rolling road.
Seems that I was wrong!

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[justme AKA Grath]

Yes or like Jim as listed local councils own testing places, but its still a class IV car MOT not a goods vehicle test

Hi George,
So do I presume that you can take them to a Ministery testing station, but have a class 4 test?

 

[scotjimland]

Thanks for that info ScotJimland.

No problem, I've found the link now:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-mot#find

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi George,
So do I presume that you can take them to a Ministery testing station, but have a class 4 test?

Hi Graham

Yes here is a Link Removed

 

[Baldrick]

C Any motor vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes, other than a vehicle falling within category D, F, G or H, including such a vehicle drawing a trailer having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilograms.

C1 A sub-category of category C comprising motor vehicles having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, including such a vehicle drawing a trailer having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilograms.

I have not stated in my post that motorhomes are goods vehicle, clearly they are not, but it is possible for motorhomes to exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM, therefore in my opinion bringing them into category 'C' of the regulations.

I will say no more on this matter other than to point out the above, which is taken from 'The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licence) Regulations 1996'

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one George:thumb:

Mark

 

[moandick]

Maximum Authorised Mass

Hi George

I am at one with you in thinking that all drivers of large vehicles should recieve training prior to taking it on the road BUT I am at one with Baldrick when talking of Regulations.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547

These rules quite specifically do not talk of vehicle categories but of MAM - in other words if your maximum authorised vehicle weight exceeds 7½ tons then you need a class c licence.

End of story, as far as I am concerned.

Dick

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