Driving Licence Entitlement

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ukrv

Deleted User
drumroll please...........











he's on the way........................










ladies and gentlemen.............................











I give you........................................











GT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Come on then George. :winky:

Paul
 
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Paul

Marks post is accurate, cites the correct legislation and he as not made any false assumptions based on that legislation, I only wish more posts could be that well presented.

Paul Could you please give me a clue regarding to what you think is wrong?
 

Adria 5

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Jul 23, 2007
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adria caravan
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5
drumroll please...........











he's on the way........................










ladies and gentlemen.............................











I give you........................................











GT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Come on then George. :winky:

Paul


:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: i like it
 

Geo

Trader - Funster
Jul 29, 2007
10,933
7,594
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35
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A class RV and Autotrail
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if the correct licence is not held.
Correct, and there lies the but of the arguments and disscusions, nothing has changed as a result of this post, if im thinking on the same lines as GT,
tell me if im wrong George
Geo
 
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ukrv

Deleted User
Paul Could you please give me a clue regarding to what you think is wrong?
Hi George,

Nothing is "wrong" - I was simply building-up your arrival on the thread. :thumb:

Let's face it, it's not a topic you could refuse joining in with is it. :ROFLMAO:

Paul
 
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Paul

Then why even reply?, Mark (Baldrick) made a perfect post, it made an accurate point "if the correct licence is not held." and then presented evidence to support it, it did not contain any contentious issues like driving a 12 Tonne motorhome on a B licence is ilegal and as such it required no reply or additions and in my view it has been spoilt by needless replies.
 
OP
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ukrv

Deleted User
in my view it has been spoilt by needless replies
George

1) You need to get a sense of humour :winky:

2) Your writing "style" is starting to p*ss people off. Some of us weren't happy that you came onto the site (given your history elsewhere) but you did start in a pleasant manner. However, the "old" George is now back on many threads and I would ask that you have a little respect for other people on the forum.

Thanks
Paul
 

Road Runner

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Jul 26, 2007
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George

I have not posted since you joined the forum and wont (my loss sadly)

You were point blank ignorant to me on another forum and continued to be till you got your marching orders because others were pi$$ed off by you to.

Paul has made a pleasant suggestion to you and if I were you would listen and learn:winky:
 
OP
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Lindy-C

Deleted User
Hi John
Good to see you back - we missed you :winky:

Sorry...........straying off topic :Blush:
 
OP
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Paul

I have continued in a pleasant manner, your first post in this thread was trying to incite and stir, all I did was ask what you thought was wrong with Baldricks post as you obviously assumed I was going to repsond for some reason.

Sorry but I still cannot see what your initial reply is meant to achieve.

My last word on the subject, if you want to argue go elsewhere I am not interested.
 
OP
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ukrv

Deleted User
Hi George

You have a lot of knowledge to share (though just how much is Googled has been debated elsewhere).

Please share it in the light-hearted manner the forum has been set-up for.

Others have said in the past how much you can add to a forum - unfortunately, if the PMs Ive been getting over the last 20 minutes are anything to go by, then you could be on dodgy ground here too.

So, again, please have some respect for others on the forum when you make your post.

Of course you will have a different opinion to many people - we are all different - but it's just the "style" you use which people find offensive.

My original post on this thread was humorous (obviously you didn't see that side of it). Sadly, it is the only way to deal with your presense here at the moment as any other way leads into never ending arguments and nit-picking.

I too will leave it here and allow the Admin team to decide how to proceed with things.

Paul
 

moandick

Free Member
Jul 28, 2007
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40 +
Sorry, Paul but your reputation for trouble-making and rabble-rousing preceeds you - and there is no way you can sit back with your hands in the air protesting your innocence.

Like George, I too, saw a certain amount of sarcasm in your reply to a post which I saw as perfectly good and informative.

I have actually copied the post for information on my stall when I attend RV Shows and I thank the person responsible for bringing it to our attention.

Dick
 
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ukrv

Deleted User
Hi Dick

As you know, I will state things how I see them - though I don't think you will find any of my posts that are personally vindictive.

So OK, I will knock certain dealers - in fact, I will openly call them liars when they are lying (non have sued me yet have they!!).

Unfortunately, on this site, as I stated earlier GeorgeT has gone from a refreshingly new GeorgeT to his old self in a very short space of time.

In the space of 20 minutes this morning, Ive had a few PMs about him.

Perhaps my willingness to stand-up to people (often confused with trouble-making and rabble-rousing) is the reason for those PMs.

I won't obviously name those senders but here are some of the comments Ive received :-

"I have stopped posting on the board now this ar$ehole is here. He has upset xxxxx to."

"He was really rude to me on another site."

"I'm seriously thinking of not posting till he's gone. I know nothing of his history and I know that sometimes posts can be inaccurate and it is perfectly acceptable to correct these. But GT's replies at times I find very offensive."

"Another user has contacted jimjam on this subject."

"I cannot stand the bloke after I had a run in with him on MHF.......arrogant twit that he is!"

I think it now best to leave it until JimJam is back from York.

Paul
 
OP
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Baldrick

Deleted User
Correct, and there lies the but of the arguments and disscusions, nothing has changed as a result of this post, if im thinking on the same lines as GT,
tell me if im wrong George
Geo

Okay, I give in what does this cryptic reply mean?
 
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Mark

I believe that Geo spotted that its "the correct licence" that is the usual bone of contention ie I think that both sides accept that an incorrect licence will result in prosecution.

The two sides however disagree about which is the right licence for a large American Motorhome.

My personal belief is that the law doesnt require anything more than a car licence to drive a large American motorhome, but although the law doesnt require it, I think that in most peoples cases the extra training to get the higher licence would be benificial (many people with car licences cannot in my view even handle a car properly)

This is however only my understanding of what Geo meant........
 
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Baldrick

Deleted User
Hi George, thanks for that. Do you not think that motorhome. RV. Motorcaravan or whatever thay may be called all come under the wording in the regulation 'Any Motor Vehicle' ?

Your comments would be most appreciated to help me decide for myself.

Thanks

Mark
 

Supertractorman

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Sep 7, 2007
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GT,

I totally agree with you regarding training for driving RV's, only last week I had to take to the verge in a Coach because an RV was over the line on my side of the road. Luckily I had slowed down as I could see what was going to happen.
Dealers who stick large signs on RV's for sale saying " ONLY CAR LICENCE REQUIRED " in my view would be better off saying " Free Training Course to Safely Drive".
 
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Baldrick

Its complicated, but in the simplist form the legislation allows for Goods vehicles over 7.5 Tonnes and Buses.

C&U Marsham confirm that a motorhome is NOT a goods vehicle

If it were a goods vehicle it would have to have a Tacho by Law, VOSA confirm that its not a goods vehicle and so doesnt have to have a Tacho, also tellingly its NOT on the list of excluded vehicles (ie certain goods vehicles are exempt)

It doesnt require the Goods vehicle MOT test

It doesnt require Goods vehicle Plating

Licencing law specifically mentions Goods vehicles (although DVLA are hiding as many traces of that as possible in their documents)

The only case ever to go to court was dropped, I spoke with The Crown Prosecution service about this case and they could not adequately explain under what law they were trying to prosecute, they had ample evidence Plod on ground and a written statement from the driver who only had a standard car licence and yet they dropped the case eventually due to lack of evidence (I asked whethor the evidence had gone missing and they admitted not) what more evidence was needed than a confession and police witnesses?

Also if you wade through the legislation you will see clearly that it was always written as goods vehicle (remember the old licence wiuth the lorry pictogram?) they have gradually removed goods vehicle from subsequent legislation BUT have not listed it as a change this bit is complicated to explain in laymans terms, but each amendment must clearly list the changes from previous law so that there can be no doubt that the law as changed.

Weight is clearly not the benchmark, as a minibus can weigh 16 tonnes (and more in actual fact it could weigh 44 tonnes as long as the required axles are fitted) and still be legal on a car licence and yet DVLA without being able to back it with any legislation claim that ANY vehicle over 7.5 tonnes requires higher licencing.

PS I had a long series of conversations with DVLA legal bods and they could never furnish me with the legislation to back their claims, further they would put nothing in writing other than their standard and incorrect leaflets.
 
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OP
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Just out of interest have a look at this and see how many times goods vehicle is mentioned......

Note that each change of law item by item is clearly listed at the beginning

And remember that as far as Marsham are concerned a motorhome is NOT a goods vehicle.
 
Aug 16, 2007
479
2
Funster No
111
Mot

Hi Folks,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't big RVs need to go to the ministry testing station for an MOT due to their size and not physically possible to get onto normal garage MOT bays for brake testing? (rolling road)
 

scotjimland

Free Member
Jul 25, 2007
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Hi Folks,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't big RVs need to go to the ministry testing station for an MOT due to their size and not physically possible to get onto normal garage MOT bays for brake testing? (rolling road)
Local councils have their own MOT testing stations for council vehicles (i.e. buses and ambulances), these test centres are open to the general public. As they only carry out tests, and not repairs, there’s no incentive to find faults that don’t exist, I used Chelmsford last time. :winky:

Aberdeenshire
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01467 627538
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Mill Hill Depot, London
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County Council Vehicle Depot, London Rd, Bedford
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City Services Transport Depot, Mill Rd, CB1 2AZ
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Direct Services, Pyms Lane
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Factory Lane
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County Transport, Ripley Rd, Ambergate
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County Transport, Brimington Rd North, Chesterfield
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County Transport, Halstead Garage, Buxton
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Vehicle & Plant, North Bridge, Doncaster, DN5 9AN
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Wanchard Lane, DT2 9RP
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CEC Fleet Services, Gorgie, Russel Rd
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Coval Lane, Chelmsford
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Vehicle Servicing, Westside Centre, London Rd, Stanway, Colchester
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Swindon Rd Depot, Cheltenham
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Woking Road
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Newport Transport, 150 Corporation Rd, Newport
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Amos Fleet, Battinson Rd
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Bridge Rd Depot, Pears Rd, TW3 1SQ
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Reigate and Bansted Council
01737 276650
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Old Edinburgh Rd, Bellshill, ML4 3JF
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84 Syston Street East, Cobden Industrial Estate, LE1 2JW
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Central Depot
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Hardshaw Brook Depot, Parr Street, St Helens
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Cargo Fleet Lane
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Northumberland, County Council, Morpeth
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Rolleston Drive Workshops, Arnold, Nottingham
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Lodge Lane, Great Blackenham, Nr Ipswich
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Rougham, Industrial Estate, Bury St Edmunds
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Blythe Rd Industrial Estate,Halesworth
01984 874427
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Thamesdown Bus Depot, Corporation Street
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02088 716761
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Richmond Street, Clydebank
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Accord, Bedbridge Heath Depot, Worthing Rd, Horsham
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GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Folks,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't big RVs need to go to the ministry testing station for an MOT due to their size and not physically possible to get onto normal garage MOT bays for brake testing? (rolling road)
Yes or like Jim as listed local councils own testing places, but its still a class IV car MOT not a goods vehicle test
 
Aug 16, 2007
479
2
Funster No
111
Thanks for that info ScotJimland.
I always thought that with such big vehicles you would have to take them to a Ministery Goods Veh testing station, for the rolling road.
Seems that I was wrong!:ROFLMAO:
 
OP
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Baldrick

Deleted User
C Any motor vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes, other than a vehicle falling within category D, F, G or H, including such a vehicle drawing a trailer having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilograms.

C1 A sub-category of category C comprising motor vehicles having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, including such a vehicle drawing a trailer having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilograms.


I have not stated in my post that motorhomes are goods vehicle, clearly they are not, but it is possible for motorhomes to exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM, therefore in my opinion bringing them into category 'C' of the regulations.

I will say no more on this matter other than to point out the above, which is taken from 'The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licence) Regulations 1996'

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one George:thumb:

Mark
 

moandick

Free Member
Jul 28, 2007
1,313
112
Landrake, Cornwall
Funster No
24
MH
Euro-shed
Exp
40 +
Maximum Authorised Mass

Hi George

I am at one with you in thinking that all drivers of large vehicles should recieve training prior to taking it on the road BUT I am at one with Baldrick when talking of Regulations.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547

These rules quite specifically do not talk of vehicle categories but of MAM - in other words if your maximum authorised vehicle weight exceeds 7½ tons then you need a class c licence.

End of story, as far as I am concerned.

Dick
 
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