Drinking and sleeping in vehicle can result in lost license ! (2 Viewers)

[hilldweller]

The legal system is as bad as the ladder, not built for the problems of today. Were you are labour passed a new law for every day they were in power? Tories just as bad.

We have so many laws on the statute book that they can never be enforced. When have you seen a van driver pulled over for smoking in the work place? :Angry:

Bob

Everybody agrees, well nearly everybody.

The root cause is across Europe we have this infestation called Civil Service. Been at it as long as the lawyers, indeed many are, they know the ropes, indeed they invent the ropes and to keep their nice cushy jobs they have to keep inventing more ropes ( regulations ). We need something like DDT that works on civil services.

Or someone with big balls and a big dog to take them on. You've got the guts to tackle yobs, You Are The Man. We're all behind you. Some distance mind.

 

[Xoxoc]

We have so many laws on the statute book that they can never be enforced. When have you seen a van driver pulled over for smoking in the work place? :Angry:

This has always worried me.

New laws are created when the offence is already punishable with existing legislation.

For example why make using a mobile device whilst driving an offence when you could already be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention at the very least?

Bryan

 

[slobadoberbob]

I have the big dog

Everybody agrees, well nearly everybody.

The root cause is across Europe we have this infestation called Civil Service. Been at it as long as the lawyers, indeed many are, they know the ropes, indeed they invent the ropes and to keep their nice cushy jobs they have to keep inventing more ropes ( regulations ). We need something like DDT that works on civil services.

Or someone with big balls and a big dog to take them on. You've got the guts to tackle yobs, You Are The Man. We're all behind you. Some distance mind.

I have the big dog (what good she is .. big softy) but I have not as yet got the rope making machine... But I put my hands up to the legal bit, but then I did not make the rule. I tried to dodge and duck them most of the time, bit like life now... ducking and dodging Harry, ducking and dodging.

Bob:Blush:

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[hilldweller]

Brian are you going to be the first one in the line?:Blush:
Bob:thumb:

Sort of. I am on record in here saying that I fully agree with allocating NHS resources to those younger ones who will keep the UK going. I get angry at all the media cases where old people are screaming "it's only £20,000 for cancer treatment to keep me going another 6 months. It's my right".

"I'd like to think I'd say '£20K for 6 miserable months, no way, just give me one big shot of morphine'". Those so fond of making laws have not got the guts to implement euthenasia. It's a much needed law change. My local MP, managed, in between filling in expenses claims forms, to come back with "it is totally unacceptable, our health care gives everyone a peaceful ending in their own time". Bollox.

 

[slobadoberbob]

and for once we agree Brian

Sort of. I am on record in here saying that I fully agree with allocating NHS resources to those younger ones who will keep the UK going. I get angry at all the media cases where old people are screaming "it's only £20,000 for cancer treatment to keep me going another 6 months. It's my right".

"I'd like to think I'd say '£20K for 6 miserable months, no way, just give me one big shot of morphine'". Those so fond of making laws have not got the guts to implement euthenasia. It's a much needed law change. My local MP, managed, in between filling in expenses claims forms, to come back with "it is totally unacceptable, our health care gives everyone a peaceful ending in their own time". Bollox.

Amen to that brother, fully agree... for once we are in sinc:thumb:

Bob

 

[Toffs-G]

Sort of. I am on record in here saying that I fully agree with allocating NHS resources to those younger ones who will keep the UK going. I get angry at all the media cases where old people are screaming "it's only £20,000 for cancer treatment to keep me going another 6 months. It's my right".

"I'd like to think I'd say '£20K for 6 miserable months, no way, just give me one big shot of morphine'". Those so fond of making laws have not got the guts to implement euthenasia. It's a much needed law change. My local MP, managed, in between filling in expenses claims forms, to come back with "it is totally unacceptable, our health care gives everyone a peaceful ending in their own time". Bollox.

IMO some (not all) NHS trusts appear to be arbitrarily Euthanising via the back door anyway with DNR being placed on notes and frankly just leaving people to die because they either dont care or feel they have no hope anyway.

Bringing in a Euthanasia law with the correct controls would at least formalise the process with all the 'checks and balances' (hopefully) the legislation would bring and again hopefully would reduce suffering.

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[slobadoberbob]

putting aside the DNR issue

IMO some (not all) NHS trusts appear to be arbitrarily Euthanising via the back door anyway with DNR being placed on notes and frankly just leaving people to die because they either dont care or feel they have no hope anyway.

Bringing in a Euthanasia law with the correct controls would at least formalise the process with all the 'checks and balances' (hopefully) the legislation would bring and again hopefully would reduce suffering.

Like Brian I feel that we should be able to decide if we wanted a way out. Those that suffer pain in such away as it is impossible to control should have the right to say, hey I have had enough and do not want you to continue to keep me alive or to wait until I have a situation where DNR applies. It is about choice. It is not for everyone I know, but we should have that choice... At the present time the Attorny General decides case by case if a prosecution is mounted if someone helps another take there life.

Me what would I do? if Sue was so ill and it would save her pain and that is what she wanted then to hell with the law and the consequences. Now that is from an Ex lawyer.. everyone has the right to make up there own mind.. not be forced, but to decide themselves... just my own personal views for what they are worth... but to me I feel I must decide myself if the right time has come. It is not selfish it is the dignified way to end pain and suffering.

Bob

 

[Toffs-G]

Like Brian I feel that we should be able to decide if we wanted a way out. Those that suffer pain in such away as it is impossible to control should have the right to say, hey I have had enough and do not want you to continue to keep me alive or to wait until I have a situation where DNR applies. It is about choice. It is not for everyone I know, but we should have that choice... At the present time the Attorny General decides case by case if a prosecution is mounted if someone helps another take there life.

Me what would I do? if Sue was so ill and it would save her pain and that is what she wanted then to hell with the law and the consequences. Now that is from an Ex lawyer.. everyone has the right to make up there own mind.. not be forced, but to decide themselves... just my own personal views for what they are worth... but to me I feel I must decide myself if the right time has come. It is not selfish it is the dignified way to end pain and suffering.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I agree it should be about choice of the individual, that's is where I was coming from with regard to the Checks and Balances which by rights would confirm the individuals wishes etc.

Gary

 

[robnchris]

drinking and driving

Hi Bob,

I agree it should be about choice of the individual, that's is where I was coming from with regard to the Checks and Balances which by rights would confirm the individuals wishes etc.

Gary

We are 100% in agreement with Gary on this one, now lets take a look at the figures and statistics, number of people killed on the roads in this country whilst driving = bloody loads

Number of drunks getting killed whilst driving = a few.

So we think all the sober people should stay at home and leave us drunks to make the roads a safer plashe, hic hic

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[hilldweller]

IMO some (not all) NHS trusts appear to be arbitrarily Euthanising via the back door anyway with DNR being placed on notes and frankly just leaving people to die because they either dont care or feel they have no hope anyway.

Bringing in a Euthanasia law with the correct controls would at least formalise the process with all the 'checks and balances' (hopefully) the legislation would bring and again hopefully would reduce suffering.

It must be an awful stress on overstressed medics, they should not have to sail so close to the wind to help dying patients.

I remember an old aunt in a poor state saying "I wish my doctor was Shipman". Made me think, many of his patients probably thought the same way. Her last year was totally miserable, she longed for a nice big morphine injection.

It's a minefield but if we got some of Bob's professional magistrates it would be quite simple to impliment.

Don't the French and the Scots have these people ?

 

[gj1023]

Pass me another Latte please

 

[Les Green]

Drink in charge

Had this problem a few years ago employed as a heavy goods driver. When the case went to court I told the judge the vehicle was my home for five nights of the week, after finishing work I should be able to have a drink.
The case was dropped, maybe common sense prevailed. Les

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[scotjimland]

Had this problem a few years ago employed as a heavy goods driver. When the case went to court I told the judge the vehicle was my home for five nights of the week, after finishing work I should be able to have a drink.
The case was dropped, maybe common sense prevailed. Les

I disagree with the judge, technically you never left work ..

Airline pilots cannot drink in the 24hrs before flying. Why should driving an HGV be any different, or indeed driving any kind of vehicle ?

 

[alcorn54]

I would hope that discretion would be used. But if we are wild camping we limit the amount of drink we have just in case we have to make a quick getaway.


Apart from Jims post all the rest have mentioned what happened yonks ago.

Pat

Quick getaway??
Have you ever had to do this and why?

 

[Hayleylulu]

I dont drink when am a sleep

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[Road Runner]

I dont drink when am a sleep

So we had heard

 

[pappajohn]

in reply to those mentioning sleeping in pub carparks....
a pub (or supermarket) carpark may be privately owned but is still classed as a public place....the public have free access....so you are commiting an offence of drunk in charge.

giving your partner the keys is not a way out...the keys are still in the vehicle and readily available. (even if you have to fight for them )

in my view the only way is to give the keys to the landlord for safe keeping.....no keys, no drive, and if he's worth his salt he isnt going to give you them back if you are drunk !

 

[aba]

surely it would be better to lock the ignition key in the van safe then give the landlord the safe key as then the ignition key is in your possession as far as the insurance is concered but inaccessible to you:thumb:

andy

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[scotjimland]

in reply to those mentioning sleeping in pub carparks....
a pub (or supermarket) carpark may be privately owned but is still classed as a public place....the public have free access....so you are commiting an offence of drunk in charge.

giving your partner the keys is not a way out...the keys are still in the vehicle and readily available. (even if you have to fight for them )

in my view the only way is to give the keys to the landlord for safe keeping.....no keys, no drive, and if he's worth his salt he isnt going to give you them back if you are drunk !

Road traffic act

There are three main types of drink-driving offences under the Road Traffic Acts:

* Driving or attempting to drive a vehicle while over the prescribed limit or whilst unfit through drink or drugs.
* Being in charge of a vehicle while over the prescribed limit.
* Failing to provide a roadside breath test or an evidential specimen of breath, blood or urine when required.

The law takes a broad view of driving. For example, an owner over the drink-drive limit will commit an offence if they help to push a car along the street away from blocking a driveway.[1]

It is a separate offence to be in charge of a vehicle while over the prescribed limit, even without driving or attempting to drive it. This offence does not carry mandatory disqualification, although the maximum penalties are otherwise similar. A person may be deemed to be responsible for a vehicle if they are in possession of the key; the onus is then on the suspect to prove that they had no intention of driving. The car does not have to be in motion and an offender does not have to sit at the wheel. Whether a person is in charge is a matter of fact and degree, but there are two distinct classes of cases:

* If an owner or lawful possessor has recently driven a vehicle, he was then in charge, and the question would be whether he was still in charge or had relinquished his charge.
* If the defendant was not the owner, lawful possessor or recent driver, but was sitting in the vehicle or otherwise involved with it, the question is whether he had assumed charge.

 

[pappajohn]

a clip from your quote Jim.

"the onus is then on the suspect to prove that they had no intention of driving."

" If an owner or lawful possessor has recently driven a vehicle, he was then in charge, and the question would be whether he was still in charge or had relinquished his charge."

in my mind that would confirm what i said....by giving the landlord your keys it would prove you had no intention of attempting to drive and had relinquished your responsibility, and any copper with a little sense would leave it at that.:thumb:

 

[rainbow chasers]

This quite often comes up from time to time.

Ignition key in the locker - get drunk! As long as the keys do not fit the ignition then there is nothing they can do. As long as the keys are outside the vehicle.

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[Wildman]

Sorry but you are wrong, key or no key you are in charge, so drunk in charge.

 

[barryd]

This certainly has never bothered me and it never will, its a myth. Fair enough if your parked in a layby on the A1 sat in the drivers seat drunk, you can probably expect to get done. You will not get done for drinking in a pub car park, country car park or some other out of the way wild spot unless you drive the vehicle.

Ive even had a conversation with a copper in Scotland after a few drinks, sat outside the van with a can of Stella in my hand. He was just interested in the van.

In theory if the previous posts are correct you could just as easily be done in a campsite as you could an Aire or wild spot as they are all public places but it wont happen.

Anyway if your inside the van and the copper nocks on your door I dont think your legally obliged to let him in anyway.

 

[Loddy]

It's this old chestnut again, Yawn !!!

The police have to prove intent to drive. If the vehicle is parked legally and doe's not have to be moved no problem.

My partner who is a Magistrate deals with the same problem week after week, the police drag them in and the courts throw them out.

Loddy

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[John H]

I disagree with the judge, technically you never left work ..

Airline pilots cannot drink in the 24hrs before flying. Why should driving an HGV be any different, or indeed driving any kind of vehicle ?

As long as your under the legal drink drive limit the before you drive in the morning whats the difference between having a drink at home with the wagon/car/motorhome parked on the drive ? There are laws for pilots and laws for drivers, if your within the current drink drive limit when you drive away in the morning there shouldnt be a problem. I'm sure everyone agrees drunk drivers should be caught and punished, but the law shouldnt punish us for what we may do or this country is well and truly up the creek.

John

 

[steveclecy]

May I add my pennyworth to this discussion? There are four levels of decision making before a MHer would be disqualified for being drunk in charge of a vehicle.
(1) The officer dealing with the incident would have to decide if, in the circumstances, there was any likelihood of the person in charge driving the vehicle.
(2) If the officer did decide that (in my opinion unreasonably in the case of most circumstances for Motorhome users) the Custody Sergeant would have to agree to accept the charge.
(3) If the Custody Sergeant did accept the charge, it would be necessary for the Crown Prosecution Service duty solicitor to agree to the person being in charge of the vehicle. The CPS lawyer would take into account would it be in the public interest and would there be a 51% chance of conviction (in practice, a much higher percentage)
and finally
(4) The Court would have to believe there was a likelihood of the person in charge of the vehicle driving before they could disqualify, if found guilty.

Now, I have over-simplified it. Technically, you can be convicted without being disqualified, if the vehicle was in a public place.

I would be interested in hearing from any person who had been convicted and disqualified under any of the circumstances in this thread. Personally, I believe MHers can sleep soundly (very soundly in some cases!) in their home on wheels with a tot or two of their favourite tipple in their belly. I have never heard of any convictions in such circumstances in over 40 years of law enforcement.

Steve

 

[mandrake]

it not the drink at night that you have to beware of ,its next morning ,if you had a good few the night before you will still be over the limit next morning ive spoken to police while parked up and had a drink no probs but beware next morn they just may be wating round the next bend you can enjoy a couple of drinks but if you had a skin full beware next morn

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[barryd]

I would be interested in hearing from any person who had been convicted and disqualified under any of the circumstances in this thread. Personally, I believe MHers can sleep soundly (very soundly in some cases!) in their home on wheels with a tot or two of their favourite tipple in their belly. I have never heard of any convictions in such circumstances in over 40 years of law enforcement.

Steve

Yes me too. Its like Gas attacks. You never hear directly from someone its actually happened to.