DRAYTON wiser wireless heating controller, fitting?

[funflair]

OK confession time this is not for the motorhome it's the house, I want to replace our Danfoss TP5000 programmer/thermostat and Danfoss TRV with the DRAYTON wiser smart system, Hub, Room stat and programmable TRV.

I have no problem with the TRV heads and I think I have got my head around the relacing of the Danfoss TP5000 programmable room stat/timer with the drayton smart hub but I would just like to double check with the knowledge base on here

We have Worcester Bosch Greenstar Highflow 440 condensing boiler, the TP5000 is just two wires so Live and switched Live return, the old Danfoss TP5000 instruction specifically say to not use a Neutral or Earth but spare wires are available in the backbox

These are basically the instructions from the Drayton wiser hub that replaces the TP5000, the thermostat is wireless so not involved,

This is the back of the TP5000 the Red in the COM will be the live to the Drayton wiser hub with a link to supply the COM, the Yellow in the position C or N/O will go to terminal 3 or ON on the Drayton,

So far so good hopefully but that leaves me with with no Neutral as it is not connected back at the boiler, see below.

Just to confuse me the wires are different colours at the boiler end but I found a junction box which explained this Ls is the live to the TP5000 but is Red at the other end and LR is the switched return, I propose to use the boiler Ns for the Neutral to the N terminal on the Drayton hub and I am thinking that terminals 2 and 4 are not used.

If anybody has got this far and is still with me, well done and thank you for reading this far furthermore can any funsters with more experience with these things than me confirm that I am on the right track? please.

 

[DavidG58]

I paid someone to fit ours

Isn’t this why we are not supposed to do our own electrics anymore

 

[Nirvanauk]

Another vote for post #2

 

[funflair]

Thanks guys, yes that is the answer I might give myself if I had read the question, but I like to learn and after spending most of the afternoon thinking about it I don't really think its rocket science and I could call Drayton in the morning if fun fails me (surely not), have you got the Drayton system DavidG58 and is it any good?

 

[Bolti]

I paid someone to fit ours

Isn’t this why we are not supposed to do our own electrics anymore

Where is your spirit of adventure.

To the op sorry can't help but like reading threads that involve wires.

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[Bolti]

The Ex-Gasman may be able to help

 

[Odd-no-more]

By the look of it there aren't enough wires at the old 'stat so fit the wireless controller next to the boiler and wire it to the boiler.

 

[Pausim]

My Hive which sounds like a similar system is connected at the boiler to the boiler, instead of the original controller. The thermostat is portable and talks to the unit connected to the boiler. The hub is separate and is connected to my router so that remote access and control are possible.

 

[funflair]

By the look of it there aren't enough wires at the old 'stat so fit the wireless controller next to the boiler and wire it to the boiler.

Thanks for that I did consider that option but thought it would be tidier to use the existing position, there is Live Neutral and switched live return at the old stat so thought that would be enough with the new stat being wireless to the hub.

 

[Lenny HB]

Not to do with your problem but we have a Nest Thermostat that we love.
A couple of weeks ago I bought some Tado Smart TRV's, well 2 weeks in and I think they are going back. I thought it would be good to have a Smart TVR on the lounge, our bedroom and the bathroom so that the rooms are at a low temperature when the heating is on during the day with the lounge only getting up to temp in the evening and the other rooms late evening & a couple of hours in the morning.

Well, it's horrible when you walk into the lounge or bedroom in the day & it's cold I think we would rather pay for the gas to keep them warm. Sounded great in theory but crap in practice.
I could tweak them so the rooms are only one or two degrees cooler but then the Smart TRV would cost more than the gas saved.

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[funflair]

My Hive which sounds like a similar system is connected at the boiler to the boiler, instead of the original controller. The thermostat is portable and talks to the unit connected to the boiler. The hub is separate and is connected to my router so that remote access and control are possible.

Yes very similar I think but with the Drayton the hub replaces the original controller which for us is in the hall and then connects to the router wirelessly.

 

[funflair]

Not to do with your problem but we have a Nest Thermostat that we love.
A couple of weeks ago I bought some Tado Smart TRV's, well 2 weeks in and I think they are going back. I thought it would be good to have a Smart TVR on the lounge, our bedroom and the bathroom so that the rooms are at a low temperature when the heating is on during the day with the lounge only getting up to temp in the evening and the other rooms late evening & a couple of hours in the morning.

Well, it's horrible when you walk into the lounge or bedroom in the day & it's cold I think we would rather pay for the gas to keep them warm. Sounded great in theory but crap in practice.
I could tweak them so the rooms are only one or two degrees cooler but then the Smart TRV would cost more than the gas saved.

Sound very similar to what I am trying to achieve Lenny, did you fit a hub for the TRV's to talk to or did they go through the nest hub.

 

[Lenny HB]

Sound very similar to what I am trying to achieve Lenny, did you fit a hub for the TRV's to talk to or did they go through the nest hub.

They came with a hub or bridge as they call it, only a tiny little thing. Got them via Amazon so have until 31st Jan to return.
It did highlight one problem, the TVR in the hall was set too high so the Nest which is in the hall was turning off before the rest of the house was warm, we had been wondering for a while why the lounge wasn't getting very warm. Grandkids may have been twiddling as we found a TRV in another room turned right down and we hadn't touched it..

 

[Shropshire lad]

A cautionary thought. We have this system for our upstairs radiators. When away on an extended Motorhome trip abroad the batteries ran out on one of the radiator valves and defaulted to open. This made the boiler fire up continuously until our return!

 

[Googlebot]

I have a hive system at home and I wouldn’t dream of fitting the TRV’s. Whilst the idea is sound, in a well balanced heating system the boiler is only on when needed, particularly with a combi where they are oversized for the hot water side.

What I think I would end up with is the TRV open but the rest of the house warm enough so the room needing heating wouldn’t be warm enough.

I could be completely wrong of course, but there seems much better things to spend money on than a remote TRV, particularly where I can control them perfectly well while in the house.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the whole house thermostat from Hive, works a treat. But the TRV’s for most houses seem a waste of money.

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[Lenny HB]

But the TRV’s for most houses seem a waste of money.

As I said with the Smart TRV's the theory is good but not so good in practice. If you have a new build with the latest high insulation standard they would probably be OK.

 

[Googlebot]

As I said with the Smart TRV's the theory is good but not so good in practice. If you have a new build with the latest high insulation standard they would probably be OK.

My thinking was they would need an almost continuous supply of water to heat when needed. They may suit the modern heat pump systems that have such a low heat output, they need to be on most of the time.

 

[meanders]

We have the Wiser System in our village hall. Generally works well but the wall stats get through a set of batteries in about 9 months. They default off so the room stays cold. Seems no way of overriding them except to fit new batteries. The app does not let you know the batteries are low, but with a bit of digging you can see it's not communicating with the stat.

 

[meanders]

Sorry Martin funflair. It was fitted professionally so can't help with your questions.

 

[Lenny HB]

We have the Wiser System in our village hall. Generally works well but the wall stats get through a set of batteries in about 9 months. They default off so the room stays cold. Seems no way of overriding them except to fit new batteries. The app does not let you know the batteries are low, but with a bit of digging you can see it's not communicating with the stat.

Before the smart thermostats we had a battery powered programable thermostat after coming back home to a freezing house a couple of times after the batteries went flat we went back to an ordinary thermostat.
I would never have any battery powered themosat again main reason we chose the Nest over the Hive also at the time they wouldn't supply the Hive for self install.

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[funflair]

We have the Wiser System in our village hall. Generally works well but the wall stats get through a set of batteries in about 9 months. They default off so the room stays cold. Seems no way of overriding them except to fit new batteries. The app does not let you know the batteries are low, but with a bit of digging you can see it's not communicating with the stat.

Hi Robin, I don't know if yours are older but the Drayton info says that the room stat show battery level on the screen and in the app.

 

[DavidG58]

Thanks guys, yes that is the answer I might give myself if I had read the question, but I like to learn and after spending most of the afternoon thinking about it I don't really think its rocket science and I could call Drayton in the morning if fun fails me (surely not), have you got the Drayton system DavidG58 and is it any good?

We went for hive, but bought in a man to fit and commission

Gives us a lot more control and data, we are spending a fortune on gas and I really need to keep a very close eye on things

Hope you get sorted and apologies for doubting your abilities

 

[funflair]

We went for hive, but bought in a man to fit and commission

Gives us a lot more control and data, we are spending a fortune on gas and I really need to keep a very close eye on things

Hope you get sorted and apologies for doubting your abilities

I didn't say able just willing

 

[Pausim]

Yes very similar I think but with the Drayton the hub replaces the original controller which for us is in the hall and then connects to the router wirelessly.

With Hive the heart of the system is the box connected to the boiler. The thermostat has its own radio link to the boiler box and can operate independently without the hub and internet connection. If you move home you leave the thermostat and boiler box which are part of the central heating system but take the hub with you. If the new owner wants the internet bells and whistles they can buy a new hub but the heating system remains fully operational without it.

Probably a bit sneaky of Hive that the old hub can not be re-registered to the new owner but it worked out for us. We only needed to buy and fit a new boiler box and thermostat and plug our old hub in. I guess their thinking is that they end up with 2 Hive homes instead of 1. If our buyer had not been a pain in the ar__mpit we might have bought a complete new kit, leaving him with the new unregistered hub.

 

[rwg]

I have a hive system at home and I wouldn’t dream of fitting the TRV’s. Whilst the idea is sound, in a well balanced heating system the boiler is only on when needed, particularly with a combi where they are oversized for the hot water side.

What I think I would end up with is the TRV open but the rest of the house warm enough so the room needing heating wouldn’t be warm enough.

I could be completely wrong of course, but there seems much better things to spend money on than a remote TRV, particularly where I can control them perfectly well while in the house.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the whole house thermostat from Hive, works a treat. But the TRV’s for most houses seem a waste of money.

Interesting approach - I went the other way with semi smart bluetooth control TRVs that cost about £30 each in most rooms and the main control still run by a programmable Danfoss thermostat.

The TRVs (Equiva EQ3) don't need a hub, just an app on your phone. I have them set so that the bedrooms are a few degrees cooler during the day, but warm morning and evening. The kitchen is warm in the morning and from 5pm to 7pm but cooler at other times and so on based on how we tend to use the house. I worked out they only needed to save me about 10% on my gas bill to pay back the cost in 1 year.

The radiator in the hall has no TRV as the main thermostat is in the hall and that couldn't react properly with a TRV on the nearest radiator.

The Danfoss main stat has a thing called 'chrono proportional control' which basically means that the heating runs every 20 minutes, maybe for 30 seconds, maybe for 2 minutes, maybe for 5, depending on how much heat is needed. It all seems to work out - if lots of TRVs are shut then the hall radiator will heat quickly and the bursts of heating every 20 minutes will become shorter. When more TRVs are open the opposite happens and the heating runs longer each time.

I guess one thing is that there is usually someone in the house, so having smart heating that turns off when everyone goes out has limited use for us, but having just the right rooms heated at the right time helps.

Someone else commented that they didn't like going into cold rooms. I set rooms for 17 in 'cool' periods and 20.5 in 'in use' periods, so things are never too cold.

Interesting thread with some useful info!

cheers,

Robin

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[Lenny HB]

Someone else commented that they didn't like going into cold rooms. I set rooms for 17 in 'cool' periods and 20.5 in 'in use' periods, so things are never too cold.

That was me, bedroom is set to 17 & lounge to 18. Feels like you are walking into a fridge.

 

[rwg]

Fair enough

If I get our log burner going too well then the heat coming out of the lounge into the hall is enough to turn the central heating off completely for hours at a time. Nip up to the bedroom then and realise you left the door closed and it can be down to 15 or lower!

cheers,

Robin

 

[Lenny HB]

Fair enough

If I get our log burner going too well then the heat coming out of the lounge into the hall is enough to turn the central heating off completely for hours at a time. Nip up to the bedroom then and realise you left the door closed and it can be down to 15 or lower!

cheers,

Robin

There is the difference you have a log burner. Not practical for us due to the layout of the house.

 

[dunnah01]

OK confession time this is not for the motorhome it's the house, I want to replace our Danfoss TP5000 programmer/thermostat and Danfoss TRV with the DRAYTON wiser smart system, Hub, Room stat and programmable TRV.

I have no problem with the TRV heads and I think I have got my head around the relacing of the Danfoss TP5000 programmable room stat/timer with the drayton smart hub but I would just like to double check with the knowledge base on here

We have Worcester Bosch Greenstar Highflow 440 condensing boiler, the TP5000 is just two wires so Live and switched Live return, the old Danfoss TP5000 instruction specifically say to not use a Neutral or Earth but spare wires are available in the backbox

View attachment 694046

These are basically the instructions from the Drayton wiser hub that replaces the TP5000, the thermostat is wireless so not involved,

View attachment 694050

This is the back of the TP5000 the Red in the COM will be the live to the Drayton wiser hub with a link to supply the COM, the Yellow in the position C or N/O will go to terminal 3 or ON on the Drayton,

So far so good hopefully but that leaves me with with no Neutral as it is not connected back at the boiler, see below.

View attachment 694051

Just to confuse me the wires are different colours at the boiler end but I found a junction box which explained this Ls is the live to the TP5000 but is Red at the other end and LR is the switched return, I propose to use the boiler Ns for the Neutral to the N terminal on the Drayton hub and I am thinking that terminals 2 and 4 are not used.

If anybody has got this far and is still with me, well done and thank you for reading this far furthermore can any funsters with more experience with these things than me confirm that I am on the right track? please.

Using the yellow earth cable as the switched live is a bad solution to both the original TP5000 and your proposal for the new thermostat. You need a neutral, permanent live feed, switched live return and an earth cable so it looks like you're a wire short at the existing back box.
Edit: just seen the blue wire so presumably old 3 core & earth wiring and there is a 4th earth wire terminated somewhere in the back box so you have enough wires..

 

[Odd-no-more]

I have a hive system, I've had the main thermostat for years, I used to install them when I was working, I have now put the hive trv's on all the radiators apart from the hall rad. The main thermostat is now almost redundant as each room is programmed individually. When any room requires heat the hall is also heated. The bedrooms are heated in the morning and then again from 9pm, so warm when in use but not wasting heat at other times. I also have alexa and I can tell "her" to put heat in any room when I need it. My office is in the conservatory and I only heat that when I need to get it there. Before I put the trv's in the heat in a lot of was wasted. I installed 8 hive thermostats at a cost of about £320 I'm hoping to save that amount of gas in a year, at the current price.

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