Double the electrics. (1 Viewer)

[bobandjanie]

Who turned the lights out??? Jane

 

[Xoxoc]

dismantle the post.....

look at the wiring to the outlets....

2 or more linked by a common 'live' wire will be on the same phase....

one wire, one outlet...one of three phases to that outlet only.

just run your genny you tight ****....that'll give you 40amps+

you call this simple?????

Run my genny? 40 amps divided by 20 lites of lpg per amp = no way, Jose!

You run YOUR genny...(and I'll connect to your external socket )

you can test to see if the outlets are on the same phase by using a suitable multimeter

Now we're talking:thumb: Will a £4.99 one from Maplins do?

although it is most likely that if a post has 3 outlets they will be on separate phases.

ah, that will explain why some campsite posts only have three outlets on them :thumb: Thanks for that

 

[Chani]

Excuse the pun but this thread should have its plug pulled, 415 volts in a tin can is deadly.

Nick

This. Don't do it Bryan. It's just not worth it.

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[Xoxoc]

This. Don't do it Bryan. It's just not worth it.

But from what I've read, that will only happen if two phases are brought in, if two connections are on the same phase then that will be 220v, is that not the case?

 

[Geo]

Bryan
have you not considered two steel winch cables with iron grappling hooks thrown over local National Grid lines should give all the amps you need
Geo
Ps don't forget to wrap some tape around the last foot for safety :thumb:
And if its raining wear rubber Crocs

 

[scotjimland]

Site EHU supplies are run in three phases + neutral .. one phase per socket .

it would work if both on the same phase but as you don't know this .. it's a big NO .. do not do this

please please do not do this.. this is really bad advice .. having two phases in a van is highly dangerous ..

I wouldn't give medical or legal advice ..if your not qualified please don't give electrical advice..

But from what I've read, that will only happen if two phases are brought in, if two connections are on the same phase then that will be 220v, is that not the case?

Bryan .. why are you persisting with this.... ?

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[Dodgey]

Bryan .. why are you persisting with this.... ?

Mmmm, has Bryan joined the daft club maybe

 

[Xoxoc]

Bryan .. why are you persisting with this.... ?

Because on occasion it might be advantageous to be able to double the amps available.

I appreciate that it is not safe to do so if the two connections are different phases, hence MY change of tack on this thread to discuss if it is possible to ascertain whether the two connections are on the same phase or not.

Pappajohns detailed destruction of the hookup post indicates quite well that whilst it CAN be done, the method means it is practically impossible.

However, aba says it can be done with a suitable multimeter and it is this direction I wish to explore further.

 

[scotjimland]

Because on occasion it might be advantageous to be able to double the amps available.

I appreciate that it is not safe to do so if the two connections are different phases, hence MY change of tack on this thread to discuss if it is possible to ascertain whether the two connections are on the same phase or not.

Pappajohns detailed destruction of the shookup post indicates quite well that whilst it CAN be done, the method means it is practically impossible.

However, aba says it can be done with a suitable multimeter and it is this direction I wish to explore further.

OK.. to ascertain if it's the same phase , with multimeter set to AC volts, test between live pins of sockets .. IF ZERO volts it's same phase...

However .. the danger is that you could read ZERO volts due to a poor connection , duff meter, sockets incorrectly wired.. and draw the wrong conclusion.

Testing for phases should only be undertaken by a qualified electrician , my concern is that discussing on a forum may result in someone trying this and being injured..

Advice given by the unqualified is best ignored ..

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[buttons]

OK.. to ascertain if it's the same phase , with multimeter set to AC volts, test between live pins of sockets .. IF ZERO volts it's same phase...
However .. the danger is that you could read ZERO volts due to a poor connection , duff meter, sockets incorrectly wired.. and draw the wrong conclusion.
Testing for phases should only be undertaken by a qualified electrician , my concern is that discussing on a forum may result in someone trying this and being injured..
Advice given by the unqualified is best ignored ..

I haven’t read much of this post as it is too long so I make my excuses for incompetence before I start but connecting two different phases through one post would be extremely bad engineering practice and something that should be avoided by the circuit designers at all cost.
Stick to one post and you should be ok, however, using 14 amps and only paying for 7amps could be an illegal act.
I have seen the practice of using two outlets in the days of 5amp max usage. I did in fact have a cable made up for the use of when boiling a kettle or the like.

 

[Dodgey]

To me all good senceible advise, motorhoming 101, adjust power usage to suit supply:thumb:

 

[welsh winger]

OK.. to ascertain if it's the same phase , with multimeter set to AC volts, test between live pins of sockets .. IF ZERO volts it's same phase...

However .. the danger is that you could read ZERO volts due to a poor connection , duff meter, sockets incorrectly wired.. and draw the wrong conclusion.

Testing for phases should only be undertaken by a qualified electrician , my concern is that discussing on a forum may result in someone trying this and being injured..

Advice given by the unqualified is best ignored ..

I am amazed you are still chasing this, as Scotjimland has said, and myself on previous threads.

You could easly kill some one, not just youself, if you have 2 leads in your van on differnt phases, (even after checking which is a bit more that scotljimland has explained and equally dangerous in the worng hands) if you touch both connections (in error) you will recive a 415 volt electric shock.

You speak of a cheap meter from maplins, now theres another thread, but leave it to say I have seen some ones hand after doing what you want to do, it took 2 years of skin grafts to repair the damage, after he put a cheap meter across 415 volts, not a pretty sight.

PLEASE FORGET THIS IDEA, I AM A TIME SERVED ELECTRICAN AND WOULD NOT CONSIDER DOING THIS.

Your choice but please keep me informed of any site you are going to use so I may avoid them

Nick

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[hilldweller]

Because on occasion it might be advantageous to be able to double the amps available.

Two assumptions: You have a second socket, the site owner will permit it.

You have a Canute complex on this - he failed, same as you will.

 

[Terry]

Hi Bryan, as a self builder with very little knowledge of electricity I am all for getting something for nothing :thumb: Can you explain what it is you are wanting to achieve ? Is it to run more appliances ? ie 2 fires ,kettle ,heater etc at the same time ?JUST CONFUSED it does not take much and to add to it, yours will have 110 v as well
terry

 

[scotjimland]

PLEASE FORGET THIS IDEA, I AM A TIME SERVED ELECTRICAN AND WOULD NOT CONSIDER DOING THIS.



Nick

Nick.. you and I have both advised to drop this topic .. threads like this can give people ideas ..

Jim ... can this thread be closed before someone is hurt ... better still deleted

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[welsh winger]

Nick.. you and I have both advised to drop this topic .. threads like this can give people ideas ..

Jim ... can this thread be closed before someone is hurt ... better still deleted

The very point that worrys me, bits get lost like Chinese whispers, untill some one leaves a big burnt black mark on the floor of a motorhome and are carried out feet first, you will get some one who will try it.
After this thread if you need that much electric
STAY AT HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE
that way you will only hurt one person, YOURSELF.

Nick

 

[Terry]

Hi Jim if this is aimed at me Rest easy :thumb: let me assure you I am not allowed to touch any leccy in our van other than a fuse which, touch wood I have not had to look at in almost 4 years ONLY CURIOUS AS TO WHAT BRYAN IS HOPING TO ACHIEVE
terry

 

[pablomc]

Better to leave the thread as a warning to others, rather than delete it.

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[scotjimland]

Hi Jim if this is aimed at me Rest easy :thumb: let me assure you I am not allowed to touch any leccy in our van other than a fuse which, touch wood I have not had to look at in almost 4 years ONLY CURIOUS AS TO WHAT BRYAN IS HOPING TO ACHIEVE
terry

you know me better Terry .. as I know you

no idea why Bryan has a death wish ... oh:

 

[Xoxoc]

OK.. to ascertain if it's the same phase , with multimeter set to AC volts, test between live pins of sockets .. IF ZERO volts it's same phase...

However .. the danger is that you could read ZERO volts due to a poor connection , duff meter, sockets incorrectly wired.. and draw the wrong conclusion.

Testing for phases should only be undertaken by a qualified electrician , my concern is that discussing on a forum may result in someone trying this and being injured..

Advice given by the unqualified is best ignored ..

Nick.. you and I have both advised to drop this topic .. threads like this can give people ideas ..

Jim ... can this thread be closed before someone is hurt ... better still deleted

Jim,

First you answer the question and then ask for the thread to be closed as it's dangerous..:Confused:

If members can read the bits that are dangerous, they can also read the safety warnings that you and others have posted.

Better to leave the thread as a warning to others, rather than delete it.

Quite correct Pablo, as I said above, those that can read of the danger can read the safety warnings too. That may stop them from wondering and progressing down a potentially lethal path.




For the record, I won't be trying this. The method highlighted by scotjimland proves the concept but highlights the major problem too. You could get a false positive result and the outcome could be tragic.


So, thanks all for your input. Knowledge is power as they say :thumb:

Bryan

 

[pappajohn]

look at it on a smaller scale bryan.....

a 10 amp charger will give you 10amps/hour
a 10 amp (120w in theory) solar panel will give you 10amps/hour

combined, they will charge your battery at 10amps/hour, but will assist each other so run cooler.

put a load of 20amps on the battery and it will discharge at 10 amps/hour,

just the same for 230v....no benefit !

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[scotjimland]

look at it on a smaller scale bryan.....

a 10 amp charger will give you 10amps/hour
a 10 amp (120w in theory) solar panel will give you 10amps/hour

combined, they will charge your battery at 10amps/hour, but will assist each other so run cooler.

put a load of 20amps on the battery and it will discharge at 10 amps/hour,

just the same for 230v....no benefit !

Sorry John , I don't follow your logic


Ignoring losses,

if you combine 2 x 10 amp chargers ( solar or otherwise ) you will charge at 20A

then put a 20 amp load on and the net result is balanced.. neither charging nor discharging

same for 230v AC .. 2 x 10 amp supplies ( same phase ) will supply 20A total

 

[dazzer]

Not sure your correct with this one Jim

Charging at 10 amps is 10 amps no matter what you do or how many 10 amps there are.

2 x 10 amps does not give you 20 amps, it still just gives you 10 amps.

Im sure Newtons 3rd law comes into this somewhere.

 

[scotjimland]

Not sure your correct with this one Jim

Charging at 10 amps is 10 amps no matter what you do or how many 10 amps there are.

2 x 10 amps does not give you 20 amps, it still just gives you 10 amps.

Im sure Newtons 3rd law comes into this somewhere.

rethinking

I was thinking two 10A solar panels in series ... which would give 20A

john is correct with that part of the logic , ie two chargers in parallel still give 10A

but wrong about 2 x 230v ac supplies which will give you double the rated individual amps

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[pappajohn]

Not sure your correct with this one Jim

Charging at 10 amps is 10 amps no matter what you do or how many 10 amps there are.

2 x 10 amps does not give you 20 amps, it still just gives you 10 amps.

Im sure Newtons 3rd law comes into this somewhere.

my thoughts exactly.....to charge higher you need to supply higher current...not more of the same value.

as you say.....10 amps is 10 amps no matter how many sources it comes from.

 

[scotjimland]

my thoughts exactly.....to charge higher you need to supply higher current...not more of the same value.

as you say.....10 amps is 10 amps no matter how many sources it comes from.

I conceded that point john..

but it can't be likened to the 2 x 230v scenario .. the original question asked by Bryan

 

[pappajohn]

rethinking

I was thinking two 10A solar panels in series ... which would give 20A

john is correct with that part of the logic , ie two chargers in parallel still give 10A

but wrong about 2 x 230v ac supplies which will give you double the rated individual amps

Bryans query refered to two hookup leads into one 'back to front' hookup splitter, then into the hookup socket.

this connection would also be in parallel so would still be 7amps @ 230v

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[Simannjo]

I conceded that point john..

but it can't be likened to the 2 x 230v scenario .. the original question asked by Bryan

I think you were right in the first place Jim... and I think there is a mix -up in other posts between voltages and amps.

2 sources of the same voltage will make no difference to the overall voltage but 2 source of the same current will double the 'amount' of electricity available.

Amps being the 'quantity' of electricity means 2 sources would provide twice the amount.

 

[scotjimland]

Bryans query refered to two hookup leads into one 'back to front' hookup splitter, then into the hookup socket.

this connection would also be in parallel so would still be 7amps @ 230v

two AC supplies in parallel will double the available current ,

but I'm not going to argue this point John .. we would be here all night ..

agree to disagree.

 

[pappajohn]

two AC supplies in parallel will double the available current ,

but I'm not going to argue this point John .. we would be here all night ..

agree to disagree.

true Jim.....agree to disagree :thumb:

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