Does size (width) matter? (1 Viewer)

[lizibit]

Quite a few thread about this dilemma which may be worth perusing, along with things to think about with each option, eg:

6m or 6.36m pvc?

hi all, Looking to draw on the experience from the owners of the above size PVC’s, we are looking to change our Bailey 79-6 and whilst it will take some getting used to! Is there really any need to go down as low as 6m? The reason for change is it will fit on the drive, easier for my wife to...

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Advice sought: Slimline A class, low profile or PVC?

Hi, We've been researching what to buy as our next van having not had one for many years. We'd value comments on drivability, convenience and comfort of PVCs versus slimline A Class versus low profile B class (both sub 2.12m width) vans e.g. Carthargo Compactline 138 or Adria Compact Supreme...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Downsizing from coachbuilt to PVC

I’m thinking of downsizing from a Benimar 282, a 7.4m coachbuilt, to a PVC and looking for feedback from anyone who has actually done this in the last couple of years. Currently looking at either Adria Twin Supreme 640 SLB or Malibu 640. Reason for change? Benimar has transverse drop down...

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Thanks Minxy. Appreciate that. Such a wealth of information in this forum

 

[cyberyacht]

Previously had a 6M 2.14W Marquis Majestic. Now a 6.4M 2.12W Carthago Compactline. Relatively easy to squeeze into places, even in car parks. The ones to probably avoid are the Baileys which always seem a mile wide.

 

[Blackadder]

We have a 2.2m wide Travel Van T620G and find it's a good compromise between a PVC (hate the noise from door slamming) and a conventional coach-built which would struggle to get down our lane. Those few cm can be really significant! Other compact coachbuilts are available such as Weinsberg, Laika etc.
For us there were 2 major drawbacks to a PVC in addition to annoying neighbours with the door. First was the lack of a proper bathroom. Second was the lack of space to keep bikes, furniture etc secure when on-site. Our Travel Van has a huge lockable garage. The one time we left some chairs out overnight they disappeared (in Brittany)
Having said that, I find the main concern in narrow spaces is the mirrors which are never included in the stated width - and I have a cracked nearside Mirrorguard to prove it!

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[lizibit]

We have a 2.2m wide Travel Van T620G and find it's a good compromise between a PVC (hate the noise from door slamming) and a conventional coach-built which would struggle to get down our lane. Those few cm can be really significant! Other compact coachbuilts are available such as Weinsberg, Laika etc.
For us there were 2 major drawbacks to a PVC in addition to annoying neighbours with the door. First was the lack of a proper bathroom. Second was the lack of space to keep bikes, furniture etc secure when on-site. Our Travel Van has a huge lockable garage. The one time we left some chairs out overnight they disappeared (in Brittany)
Having said that, I find the main concern in narrow spaces is the mirrors which are never included in the stated width - and I have a cracked nearside Mirrorguard to prove it!

Will keep an eye out for the more compact MHs. So many seem to be a standard 2.3m. We'll want to sell this one again and hope not to lose to much value from scratches or dents!

 

[Minxy]

Having said that, I find the main concern in narrow spaces is the mirrors which are never included in the stated width - and I have a cracked nearside Mirrorguard to prove it!

One benefit of the mirrors on our a-class is they are above cars and a lot of vans too although we do have to be careful with lorries and busses! If the cost of the rear-view mirror cameras comes down it's something I'd definitely look at investing in as it would mean that we'd get a better view of the scenery out of the forward side windows and not have blind spots at junctions.

 

[steve69]

We almost came unstuck in France when the Satnav re-routed us because the road we had chosen turned out to closed for a carnival. The new route took us through the narrow streets of the town. I remember following a panel van thinking If he can get thru', we can. A very close call at one point but we made it (phew!).

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[steve69]

Having said that, I find the main concern in narrow spaces is the mirrors which are never included in the stated width - and I have a cracked nearside Mirrorguard to prove it!

...And that's why mirrorguards were invented....and an absolute must for any van.

 

[Minxy]

We almost came unstuck in France when the Satnav re-routed us because the road we had chosen turned out to closed for a carnival. The new route took us through the narrow streets of the town. I remember following a panel van thinking If he can get thru', we can. A very close call at one point but we made it (phew!).

Same here but in Spain, on our way out from an aire on a main road (one way) some numpty had parked his car at a pinch point which was clearly marked no parking, it was so tight I had to get out and guide hubby through with the mirrors pushed in, anything wider than our Carthago (2.12m+folded mirrors) wouldn't have got through, a fatter coachbuilt would have had to sit there until the owner returned.

 

[Rapido925M]

No such thing as "numpty parking" in Spain: just blow your horn until the situation is resolved!

This picture is taken from a friend's apartment in Zaragoza.

My car is against the pavement behind the van on the far side; the second row of cars are also parked! I was dubious but it worked fine

Gordon

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[Orion]

Just remembered Adria compact.

Compact

The new generation Compact. Stylish, slim-fit and agile motorhomes, which can reach more places. Smart automotive styling and compact dimensions yet generous living spaces, with an unbeatable combination of style, practicality and comfort, all-year round.

adria.co.uk

Looks ideal!

The width of the Adria at 2.21 total was one of the deciding factors for us. Have a Compact Deluxe SC (island bed) ordered for an alleged April delivery (we’ll see!).

 

[Graham Mew]

We have a 2.2m wide Travel Van T620G and find it's a good compromise between a PVC (hate the noise from door slamming) and a conventional coach-built which would struggle to get down our lane. Those few cm can be really significant! Other compact coachbuilts are available such as Weinsberg, Laika etc.
For us there were 2 major drawbacks to a PVC in addition to annoying neighbours with the door. First was the lack of a proper bathroom. Second was the lack of space to keep bikes, furniture etc secure when on-site. Our Travel Van has a huge lockable garage. The one time we left some chairs out overnight they disappeared (in Brittany)
Having said that, I find the main concern in narrow spaces is the mirrors which are never included in the stated width - and I have a cracked nearside Mirrorguard to prove it!

Re noisy PVC sliding doors. Buy an PVC by IH motorhome there is a choice to have a Hartal motorhome door installed at a cost. Also PVC based on the VW Crafter the wing mirrors do not stick out as mutch as Fiat and when you fold them in even less width.

 

[ontheroadagain]

The width of the Adria at 2.21 total was one of the deciding factors for us. Have a Compact Deluxe SC (island bed) ordered for an alleged April delivery (we’ll see!).

Was a major factor for us too. Also, they are fitted with short arm mirrors (same mirrors as a PVC) which also makes a difference. Just waiting on the DVLA now.

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[Norman Jones]

I like the quality of current Carthago models too. But particularly chose the Mli because it's 2.2m wide....and as the actress said to the bishop, "Six inches makes a difference". If you look eg at some Pilot models, notice how far the front wheel arches stick out past the wheels. It would cause us more problems on Welsh country roads. Also note, the width quoted doesn't include wing mirrors.

 

[nicholsong]

I am a bit late answering the OP.

For driving reasons:

Unless the driver has a lot of experience of driving Transit type vans then there is going to be a learning curve whichever you choose.

I did quite a lot of professional driving as a part-time retirement job. Initially it was a mix of Transit-type and VW T%/6. Then the agency sent me to drive a 7.5t for the first time: I was thrown in at the deep end as it was a large removal van that had to pick up in a suburban street driveway as no parking had been booked. I later did a lot of driving for the government on 7.5T

Whatever vehicle one drives one has to assess the width, at first allowing a margin for error, then with experience one can reduce that error: one way I do that on any vehicle is after clearing a narrow gap I look in the wing mirrors to assess the gap I left and I can then calculate how much closer I can come the next time.

In a standard 2.3m wide coachbuilt or 'A' Class there are few places where you could not take it - in 10 years on the Continent we may have had to reject 3 roads.

Of course there are times, especially with parked cars, there is not room for 2 moving vehicles to pass, so somebody gives way for a minute. In our Arto with a massive screen we look more like a 16-seater coach and thus are often given way to, even by 'white van man'

Personally I would ignore advice which recommends a vehicle that is 2.1m wide compared to a 2.3m wide. You will get used to either after a week.

For accommodation reasons:

I am not familiar with the term 'pavilion bed', but maybe you mean island bed, i.e fore and aft with access both sides? If so it will be difficult to find that in a 6m MH.

As far as length is concerned the driving is not much different in a 7m long, except for the overhang, but that depends on wheelbase of the base chassis, which on a LWB chassis can be the same as a 6M SWB chassis.

As far as internal accommodation space for a 6-month trip, if you are comfortable with the advice above about being able to get used to any width vehicle after a few days then I would say go for the biggest accommodation you can afford, because for 6-months you will need bicycles, clothes for 3 seasons, spare bedding(we carry 3 sets) to avoid too many stops for washing, phones, cameras, lots on entertainment, favourite foods not found on Continent - the list mounts up.

Of course that is all subject to payload, and driving licence C1

In summary(after a long post):

My advice is to not worry about width, as there are thousands of us driving 2.3m, or wider. Probably most of whom had only driven cars before.

Go for as big as you can under 7m, with I would suggest a garage for bikes/scooter.

I hope this is useful.

Good luck with your decision.

Geoff

 

[steve69]

Interesting to note that some British motorhomes are still being built in Imperial units. How else would my 2010 Elddis be exactly 7 ft wide (2.13M)?

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[Guigsy]

One benefit of the mirrors on our a-class is they are above cars and a lot of vans too although we do have to be careful with lorries and busses! If the cost of the rear-view mirror cameras comes down it's something I'd definitely look at investing in as it would mean that we'd get a better view of the scenery out of the forward side windows and not have blind spots at junctions.

I found that in the hedge-lined backroads in Norfolk and Cornwall, the hedges have receded around the car wing mirror height. But that arch towards the road higher up, so my 'coach' mirrors on my a-class give me even less room.

 

[Minxy]

I found that in the hedge-lined backroads in Norfolk and Cornwall, the hedges have receded around the car wing mirror height. But that arch towards the road higher up, so my 'coach' mirrors on my a-class give me even less room.

We've had the opposite, as our mirrors are mounted at the top rather than at the side the same as yours they go over the top of hedges when it gets tight, we do have a narrower MH too which makes a big difference.

 

[Minxy]

Personally I would ignore advice which recommends a vehicle that is 2.1m wide compared to a 2.3m wide. You will get used to either after a week.

He will get used to it of course but having had fat and thin ones (MH and PVC) we find that a narrower ones are much less stressful when on narrow roads and in traffic, especially with some of the idiots that like to drive right up to the centre line from the opposite direction. Another thing to do with length this time is that of the overhang which can again make turning etc into side roads more difficult as you can side swing other vehicles with the 'bum'.

There's never going to be a 'one size fits all' solution just trying to find one that fits the requirements at the time.

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[lizibit]

I am a bit late answering the OP.

For driving reasons:

Unless the driver has a lot of experience of driving Transit type vans then there is going to be a learning curve whichever you choose.

I did quite a lot of professional driving as a part-time retirement job. Initially it was a mix of Transit-type and VW T%/6. Then the agency sent me to drive a 7.5t for the first time: I was thrown in at the deep end as it was a large removal van that had to pick up in a suburban street driveway as no parking had been booked. I later did a lot of driving for the government on 7.5T

Whatever vehicle one drives one has to assess the width, at first allowing a margin for error, then with experience one can reduce that error: one way I do that on any vehicle is after clearing a narrow gap I look in the wing mirrors to assess the gap I left and I can then calculate how much closer I can come the next time.

In a standard 2.3m wide coachbuilt or 'A' Class there are few places where you could not take it - in 10 years on the Continent we may have had to reject 3 roads.

Of course there are times, especially with parked cars, there is not room for 2 moving vehicles to pass, so somebody gives way for a minute. In our Arto with a massive screen we look more like a 16-seater coach and thus are often given way to, even by 'white van man'

Personally I would ignore advice which recommends a vehicle that is 2.1m wide compared to a 2.3m wide. You will get used to either after a week.

For accommodation reasons:

I am not familiar with the term 'pavilion bed', but maybe you mean island bed, i.e fore and aft with access both sides? If so it will be difficult to find that in a 6m MH.

As far as length is concerned the driving is not much different in a 7m long, except for the overhang, but that depends on wheelbase of the base chassis, which on a LWB chassis can be the same as a 6M SWB chassis.

As far as internal accommodation space for a 6-month trip, if you are comfortable with the advice above about being able to get used to any width vehicle after a few days then I would say go for the biggest accommodation you can afford, because for 6-months you will need bicycles, clothes for 3 seasons, spare bedding(we carry 3 sets) to avoid too many stops for washing, phones, cameras, lots on entertainment, favourite foods not found on Continent - the list mounts up.

Of course that is all subject to payload, and driving licence C1

In summary(after a long post):

My advice is to not worry about width, as there are thousands of us driving 2.3m, or wider. Probably most of whom had only driven cars before.

Go for as big as you can under 7m, with I would suggest a garage for bikes/scooter.

I hope this is useful.

Good luck with your decision.

Geoff

Thanks for the comprehensive response Geoff.
I have driven vans in the past for short periods but my husband hasn't. I appreciate that you just need to adapt to suit the vehicle but also think if a tad narrower made us feel more relaxed while driving, it is something I'd be keen on. Especially as we are not sure where we'll be going over the 6 months.
Maybe it isn't the right term in English but the French seem to use pavilion bed for the drop down type.
It means with a 2.3m wide motorhome you get a fab living area over a short length. Not seen any which have this in the narrower version but will keep hunting.
Good point on drivers giving way to the A-class ...I think I would too as you expect from the front they are a full on bus! Must be so roomy and comfortable.

 

[Minxy]

Maybe it isn't the right term in English but the French seem to use pavilion bed for the drop down type. It means with a 2.3m wide motorhome you get a fab living area over a short length. Not seen any which have this in the narrower version but will keep hunting.

Do you mean the type that comes down over the cab as in an A-class? If so then all A-classes have this with the exception of owners who have specified storage cupboard instead but they are rare. We have a front drop down double and a rear transverse double in our 6.41m narrow A-class and they are lovely and roomy.

 

[Guigsy]

We're limited to 6m due to our driveway (which is maybe slightly less than 6m and we're just bargaining on neighbours not complaining!). We went to an a-class because it maximised the space within that 6m. We've got a bathroom at the back, kitchen in the middle and lounge at the front. The bed drops down. With an a-class, the bed drops down over the cab on manual pivots and leaves the lounge free. The semi-integrated c-class version of the same layouts have the bed drop down over the lounge electrically, so I can't chill for a bit while my wife is in bed. The bed over the lounge also sacrifices several of the overhead lockers.

As an example, compare the Roller Team Pegaso 590 to the T-Line 590 both of which are similar to our Geist i585.

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[Tonks]

After 5 years we went from a motorhome to a VW camper van January 2021. It took some getting used to as no built-in toilet, bathroom (if you are staying on camp sites this is not a problem) and fixed bed and in the first month thought we had made a big mistake. Three months into owning it, things go easier and found fix bed was not needed as could sleep in pop up roof or folding bed. We do not miss the fitted bathroom as you can wash happy enough in the van and as for toilet we have a portable one which works just fine. So thats the bad bits out of the way.
Now the good bits..... Driving it is just like a car, so getting in and around small villages is easy and parking so simple. Cooking is the same as motorhome and heating is the same (not needed so much in Spain). We tend to not use campsites so much as just find a nice spot and park up. To date completed trips around Spain, France and Germany clocking up around 9K (km) or 96 days away last year.
The wife also loves driving it as she never wanted to drive the motorhome.
Do we now miss the motorhome.................. not really

Interesting post, thanks. I've had my VW T5 for 7.5 years and have been considering upsizing but the more I look, although I like the extra space inside, I keep finding myself preferring the flexibility of the smaller van. I've also looked at changing my T5 for a T6/T6.1 but the cost to change at present is astronomical and my current van is in good condition, so then it becomes 'how much do I spend on making changes to my current van'!

 

[Guigsy]

Interesting post, thanks. I've had my VW T5 for 7.5 years and have been considering upsizing but the more I look, although I like the extra space inside, I keep finding myself preferring the flexibility of the smaller van. I've also looked at changing my T5 for a T6/T6.1 but the cost to change at present is astronomical and my current van is in good condition, so then it becomes 'how much do I spend on making changes to my current van'!

The difference in footprint from a VW T5 LWB to a 5.4m Ducato is only a few cm. But the difference inside is massive. The only disadvantage as far as I can see is you can't fit under height barriers.

 

[63720]

With a narrower 7m coach-built van and short arm mirrors I can go almost anywhere a parcel van can deliver, it's a great feeling

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[jezport]

You would be surprised how much easier driving a PVC is. Ive had all sizes of van and the width is far more important than the length. I would happily have an 8mtr PVC if they did one.
Layouts are your biggest issue as you may not get one that suits you.
For the PVC haters, we have a soft close door, full size fridge freezer, 1450kg payload and more storage than half the coachbuilts we see.

 

[nicholsong]

With a narrower 7m coach-built van and short arm mirrors I can go almost anywhere a parcel van can deliver, it's a great feeling

For lizibit (OP)

Another way to asses whether a 2.3m wide MH can go down a certain road is to look out for rubbish bins outside houses and/ bustops - if the bin lorries and buses can go there so can the 2.3m.

Another aspect to bear in mind is that although a MH is wider the elevated seat gives one a better view of any obstructions/gaps.

Yes the 'A' Class are comfortable, for example in our 7m we have a long 2m sofa and we can sit at each end with feet up side-by-side. Also the panoramic w/screen keeps you in touch with the outside world, right up to the mountain tops.

From your last post it sounds as though you are coming down on the side of a narrower van. Just wait for final decision until you have test driven a wider one - the salesman will not let you crash it.

Geoff

 

[Langtoftlad]

Another way to asses whether a 2.3m wide MH can go down a certain road is to look out for rubbish bins outside houses and/ bustops - if the bin lorries and buses can go there so can the 2.3m.

This has been mentioned several times - and is true.
But binmen & bus drivers don't care so much about scratches or the odd dink.

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[Jake Royd]

My motorhome is the 'std' 2.3m which causes me no problem.
However , the mirrors (long arm versions) are a concern.
Has anybody fitted the medium arm mirrors and have they been OK (on a Ducato) ?

 

[Guigsy]

My motorhome is the 'std' 2.3m which causes me no problem.
However , the mirrors (long arm versions) are a concern.
Has anybody fitted the medium arm mirrors and have they been OK (on a Ducato) ?

I suspect the mirrors wouldn't be wide enough to clear the coachwork body behind. You'd not be able to see along the bodyline.

 

[Don Quixote]

Interesting post, thanks. I've had my VW T5 for 7.5 years and have been considering upsizing but the more I look, although I like the extra space inside, I keep finding myself preferring the flexibility of the smaller van. I've also looked at changing my T5 for a T6/T6.1 but the cost to change at present is astronomical and my current van is in good condition, so then it becomes 'how much do I spend on making changes to my current van'!

Because of "staycation" due to covid, camper van prices have gone bananas. We bought ours Jan 2021 and the same van is €5000.00 more this month 2022. I personally would add things (we have) like a B2B charger, 200watt solar panel, MultiRail Reimo ( we made our own awning), LiFePO4 12.8V battery and an inverter to date.
The best thing is parking...... as now with the LiFePO4 battery and inverter we just park up in a village, close blinds and chill, granted we have the sun here to recharge via solar and if needs be B2B. Few weeks back we parked outside a police station (25 metres away) and no one battered an eyelid.
Hold tight on to yours, do a few "mods" and enjoy it.

ENJOY

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