Dodgy Thermostat?? Fiat 2.8 Lump (low mileage)

[MartMaeve]

Hello folks,

Just back from our second outing in the Hymer, and had a very strange experience with the temperature gauge for part of the 500 or so miles we travelled. Basically, the gauge usually sits slap bang in the middle of the dial under all conditions, but for some strange reason, driving through Snowdonia (but not hammering the van up & down mountains) the dial suddenly went North and stayed there. Fearing the worst I pulled over and had a good look around the engine bay (leaks, emulsion in the oil, loss of coolant in header etc) but to no avail - all seemed normal. So, we pressed on (gingerly) and reached our destination some 100 miles further on without any problems. The day after there was no sign of the problem till we had to stop suddenly and then, Bam!, the needle went North again.

Today on the 140 mile run home, there was no sign of any needle north shenaningans so I am wondering if anyone else has had similar 'fun' with the Fiat 2.8l diesel lump?

I will be booking in to get the cambelt changed in the next few days, so I guess the water pump, thermostat etc will get changed at the same time. But in the meantime, if anyone has any ideas, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Cheers!

Martin

 

[dave newell]

What you describe is an occasionally known problem which is usually a fault in the instrument panel. There is no need to change water pump with cambelt on the 2.8 as it is driven from the auxiliary belt rather than the cambelt. It only needs changing if it has any play or signs of leakage. There are various electronics companies that can fix the instrument panel fault, cartronix.co UK are probably the best known.

D.

 

[Masman]

I had same problem last year.Mine was thermostat. I had a new radiator fitted as there was a slight leak from the nearside bottom corner. No problem since .

 

[ShiftZZ]

Had a similar problem, one suggestion was to degauss the dash, Utter bllx, some fix found of Google. . Eventually went to someone who knew what they were doing, turned out that the data was being corrupted by the system, apparently the ECU to dash was the problem, it turns out that not all 2.8 dash are the same, some can be repaired, some not. Fiat design and specify the dash then outsource the production, manufacturing companies try and reduce production costs. When mine was sent to be fixed, it turns out that the components had been 'welded' to the board and could not be repaired. Guess which one was mine?

Had to bite the bullet, replace the dash. Not cheap, I did find a new one on ebay, being sold by a dealer, in Southampton, had it sent up, configured and since then I've had no issues.

Since then I've ONLY used BR CARTRONICS, they have all the equipment, knowledge and expertise.
If your in the Midlands I can recommend them.
They were recommended by another funster, they have a nice waiting room and are very professional.

http://www.brcartronics.com/index_m.html

 

[MartMaeve]

Quick question - where would I find the ECU for this particular beastie? I'm inclined to have a look myself and to check for any obvious anomalies (corrosion, poor seating, dodgy solder etc) and re-seat the thing before going off down the repair and / or replace track. I've had similar shenanigans with old Volvo ecu which have been down to the age of the vehicle and consequent wear and tear, rather than any major fault.

So, if I could find out where the main ECU lives in a 2005 Hymer Classic 644 Fiat Ducato 2.8 diesel base van, I may be able to do some preliminary diagnosis myself. All info & pointers gratefully accepted

Martin

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[Stealaway]

My overheating problem was just the temp sender in the block

 

[nicholsong]

Since then I've ONLY used BR CARTRONICS, they have all the equipment, knowledge and expertise.
If your in the Midlands I can recommend them.
They were recommended by another funster, they have a nice waiting room and are very professional.

http://www.brcartronics.com/index_m.html

Dave

I am a bit late on this thread but thanks for recommendation

'Nice waiting room' = 'Tasty receptionist' by any chance?

Just to try to cheer you up with other things going on in your life.

Geoff

 

[dave newell]

Quick question - where would I find the ECU for this particular beastie? I'm inclined to have a look myself and to check for any obvious anomalies (corrosion, poor seating, dodgy solder etc) and re-seat the thing before going off down the repair and / or replace track. I've had similar shenanigans with old Volvo ecu which have been down to the age of the vehicle and consequent wear and tear, rather than any major fault.

So, if I could find out where the main ECU lives in a 2005 Hymer Classic 644 Fiat Ducato 2.8 diesel base van, I may be able to do some preliminary diagnosis myself. All info & pointers gratefully accepted

Martin

Your ecu lives in the engine bay on the UK nearside inner wing. It really is a known and well documented issue and is pretty much always a fault in the instrument panel though.

D.

 

[SIFTA SAM]

For info.
My 2004 Fiat Hymer temp gauge would immediately go to normal running temperature at engine switch on.
The fix was to disconnect the electrical connector to the Instrument cluster for a few seconds and then reconnect.

 

[MartMaeve]

I think my next port of call will be a quick strip down of the instrument binnacle. After that I will have a look at the ECU - it was all very grubby inside the engine bay when I first got the van, so perhaps there may be some ingress of dirt or some such confounding factor.

Thanks for all the hints.

M

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[MartMaeve]

[/QUOTE]

My 2004 Fiat Hymer temp gauge would immediately go to normal running temperature at engine switch on.

Funnily enough, I noticed mine (2005 Hymer) doing the same thing the first time the problem manifested itself, which was why I wasn't overly concerned once I'd checked there was no loss of coolant and no apparent contamination of the engine oil.

 

[Misterg]

Interesting comments on the temperature gauge in this video - same van but different engine, so the thermostat problem probably isn't relevant, but gauge behaviour is interesting (warning - contains Americans and Farenheit):

 

[Lenny HB]

Love that gizmo, I want one. I've seen a few of that guy's videos, very well presented, I could even forgive him for being America.

 

[MartMaeve]

Brilliant! MrG I have an OBD reader and app for my phone so I can do some diagnosis when I'm out with the van again (later this week). It will be interesting to see if the OBD readings are similar to those on the dash, but danged scary if they are!! :-0 !

 

[MartMaeve]

Right oh! Plugged the OBD (ELM327) unit in, started the engine, started the app, and lo and behold the initial temperature of the coolant was 215 degrees celsius! (419 Farenheit)... As noted above, the start point for the gauge was half way up the display on start up. No DTC fault code is showing so it isn't a question of simply clearing the fault code and starting again. I'm still going to re-seat the ECU and dash-connections, just in case of age related entropy. After that I guess it is a question of sending various bits off for repair.

Watch this space!

M

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[MartMaeve]

Another quick update - disconnected the battery overnight in the hope of 'resetting' the ECU. Reconnected this morning and fired her up.....

.....Temperature gauge straight to the middle of the dial

Ho hum. Perhaps it will be a strip down and rebuild for the speedo after all.

M

 

[MartMaeve]

Aaaaargghh! So, off we went this weekend for a short break (didn't want to go too far with dodgy electrics). For the first day and a half no sign of the temperature gauge gremlin, with every type of road condition / driving you might normally encounter. On the way back today though, just motoring along at a steady 70 on the motorway, with no warning, boom, up shoots the temp gauge to the top. Did a quick pit stop to check for any signs of overheating - none found. Hooked up via the app, which confirmed the sensor was sending a reading of 215 degrees celsius again.

So, the problem is apparently intermittent. Does anyone have any idea what might cause an intermittent fault like this?

My thoughts are definitely leaning towards a wiring issue (chafing) rather than something deeper seated - I can't see how the dashboard could be the villain, as all that does is report in analogue the digital signals it receives.

Thoughts?

Martin

 

[SIFTA SAM]

Aaaaargghh! So, off we went this weekend for a short break (didn't want to go too far with dodgy electrics). For the first day and a half no sign of the temperature gauge gremlin, with every type of road condition / driving you might normally encounter. On the way back today though, just motoring along at a steady 70 on the motorway, with no warning, boom, up shoots the temp gauge to the top. Did a quick pit stop to check for any signs of overheating - none found. Hooked up via the app, which confirmed the sensor was sending a reading of 215 degrees celsius again.

So, the problem is apparently intermittent. Does anyone have any idea what might cause an intermittent fault like this?

My thoughts are definitely leaning towards a wiring issue (chafing) rather than something deeper seated - I can't see how the dashboard could be the villain, as all that does is report in analogue the digital signals it receives.

Thoughts?

Martin

I would consider starting at 'one end' of the problem and buy a spare water temperature sensor but don't attach it mechanically. Connect it electrically by using the existing wire but connecting the outer-body to a good earth. See what your OBD reports then over a period of time?

 

[MartMaeve]

I would consider starting at 'one end' of the problem and buy a spare water temperature sensor but don't attach it mechanically. Connect it electrically by using the existing wire but connecting the outer-body to a good earth. See what your OBD reports then over a period of time?

Good shout! I've had the instrument cluster off and back on this morning, but even after re-seating the connectors, the temp gauge reads half way up with the engine cold. So, I will be looking at the sender side of things next - I may take a peek at the ECU and its connections too, but I think it might be more a case of a failing sender, as the problem is intermittent (see earlier post).

Cheers!

Martin

 

[Landy Andy]

If you disconnect the sender does the gauge then read zero? If yes would indicate faulty sender, if not wiring fault.

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[MartMaeve]

Ok, where on the engine block is the sender? The chaps at the garage today seemed to think it was under a main hose on the top of the engine, which make it somewhat hard to see / access.

I'm happy to have a go at disconnecting it if I can find it

Ideas or photos?

Martin

 

[Motorhome-dude]

Hello folks,

Just back from our second outing in the Hymer, and had a very strange experience with the temperature gauge for part of the 500 or so miles we travelled. Basically, the gauge usually sits slap bang in the middle of the dial under all conditions, but for some strange reason, driving through Snowdonia (but not hammering the van up & down mountains) the dial suddenly went North and stayed there. Fearing the worst I pulled over and had a good look around the engine bay (leaks, emulsion in the oil, loss of coolant in header etc) but to no avail - all seemed normal. So, we pressed on (gingerly) and reached our destination some 100 miles further on without any problems. The day after there was no sign of the problem till we had to stop suddenly and then, Bam!, the needle went North again.

Today on the 140 mile run home, there was no sign of any needle north shenaningans so I am wondering if anyone else has had similar 'fun' with the Fiat 2.8l diesel lump?

I will be booking in to get the cambelt changed in the next few days, so I guess the water pump, thermostat etc will get changed at the same time. But in the meantime, if anyone has any ideas, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Cheers!

Martin

I would strongly suggest you visit the UK Fiat forum.

Your base vehicle is a Fiat. It doesn't matter what hangs off the back of it. These guys have all the answers to Fiat questions.

https://www.fiatforum.com/

 

[MartMaeve]

I would strongly suggest you visit the UK Fiat forum.

Your base vehicle is a Fiat. It doesn't matter what hangs off the back of it. These guys have all the answers to Fiat questions.

https://www.fiatforum.com/

Aye, been on there a few times, and even downloaded the workshop manual ISO file, but all to no avail so far.

 

[2bob]

its on right hand side about 6ins down you need a deep socket

 

[ChrisL]

If you have the manual, you should be able to test the sender by measuring the resistance between the terminal and earth, the manual should have a table with what the resistive values should be for a given temperature. For example on my car (Mitsubishi) at 20 C the resistance should be 3.25 +- 0.33 K Ohms.

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[MartMaeve]

Disconnected the sender for our latest trip - easy enough to do, but I do think it will be a beggar to remove the sender itself, long socket or not

Anyway, the van continues to run like a train, great fun and very comfortable. I'd recommend the Dalesbridge centre at Settle, for any funsters looking for a great base for touring North Yorks

 

[MartMaeve]

Ordered the sender unit today& am looking forward to swapping it out.

 

[gwyntaxi]

Hello folks,

Just back from our second outing in the Hymer, and had a very strange experience with the temperature gauge for part of the 500 or so miles we travelled. Basically, the gauge usually sits slap bang in the middle of the dial under all conditions, but for some strange reason, driving through Snowdonia (but not hammering the van up & down mountains) the dial suddenly went North and stayed there. Fearing the worst I pulled over and had a good look around the engine bay (leaks, emulsion in the oil, loss of coolant in header etc) but to no avail - all seemed normal. So, we pressed on (gingerly) and reached our destination some 100 miles further on without any problems. The day after there was no sign of the problem till we had to stop suddenly and then, Bam!, the needle went North again.

Today on the 140 mile run home, there was no sign of any needle north shenaningans so I am wondering if anyone else has had similar 'fun' with the Fiat 2.8l diesel lump?

I will be booking in to get the cambelt changed in the next few days, so I guess the water pump, thermostat etc will get changed at the same time. But in the meantime, if anyone has any ideas, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Cheers!

Martin

I had the Same problem as you describe when I had the 2.8jtd , apparently it is a well documented fault and at the time I was looking on the Fiat forum and one guy said he took his Moho in to his main fiat dealer who diagnosed a faulty dashboard panel and quoted him £527 for a replacement he told the not to bother and just put the dash back and had no problem since, so I tried it and removed the two multi plugs from the rear of the dash panel and sprayed the contacts with a contact/switch cleaner plugged it back in and no problem since, I suggest you give that a try it’s a cheap fix that could save you a lot of money.

 

[PeteH]

It is always worth checking out the connections as on modern vehicles, those with a "canbus" system, the signal currents are tiny, so it only takes a "mucky" connection to cause issues, ESPECIALLY Earthing. Finding the earthing points and cleaning and Coating with (say) Vaseline. Is a worthwhile project. I first came across this in the early 90`s, My "Company" car (Astra) kept cutting out. Each time it happened no one could trace the issue. A young "techy" at the local Dealership had just done a course at Vauxhall, and he put his finger on the cause first time, cleaned all the Earths and bingo no more issues.

 

[MartMaeve]

Finally got round to it last weekend. What a pig of a DIY job though ! Not only is there a veritable jungle of pipework directly in the way, but also the sender itself is at a weird angle and needs a deep / long 22m socket which, once in situ, is a complete bahh starred to get any secure purchase on.

Lost a fair amount of coolant whilst swapping from the old sender to the new, but since fitting the new unit everything seems rock-steady on the temperature gauge front... famous last words, I know!

We are going away in the van for a week tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see if the solution holds

Thanks for all the great tech tips folks- in the end, brute force and fingers crossed did the trick!

Martin

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