Do you understand why !! (1 Viewer)

[geoff587]

At the Nuremberg trials there were lots of Nazis bleating the i was only following orders.

So if soldiers don't agree with the war then don't obey the orders plenty have they are the real hero's in my book:thumb:

each to his own:thumb:

Oh of course not Maggie so its Hitler/Nazis as the prime example, same old rhetoric every time. Though it was only high ranking officers at Nuremberg not the rank and file. . (Told you gixxer)

Your Heroes are my cowards , so as you say each too his own .

 

[gixermark]

Well ..... totaly befuggled by some responses on here!

Thanks to my ex forces buddies on here .... it is true....Once a squaddie always a squaddie !:thumb:

Havent really been able to express my feelings appropriatly re some of the full on Lefty comments and I won't drag on with this any longer but together with this thread and a PM I have recieved I will make sure I am more careful to watch what I comment on this site from now on ........................ The heck I will !

Just to clear up : Whilst I am well aware this article was written in the Sun newspaper, my sources of this person come from closer to home and word of mouth! I am well aware the Sun is mainly drivle but one thing the paper clearly does do ( that a lot of you with your lefty comments have left don't ! ) is to support our troops .... both present & past!

Be nice to know, as one reply was from a 'Local Authority' employee, if the gent in question hadn't aimed his sights on ex service personel but aimed at the more corrupt Local Authorities and how he wouldnt employ them over a drug dealer, paedo etc .... just what sort of feeling you would have! There again, as most Local Authority employees in the management area appear as bent as a two bob note and leftie liberal all the way to the bank, I doubt they'd be bothered ! Not aimed at anyone in particular on here ..... just a sweeping statement that's all .... free speech n all that !:Cool:

One thing that would interest me is if / when the s**t hits the fan, which thanks to the way this country is now is only a matter of time, how many of you lefftie liberals will stand up and fight for your rights and defend til the end ? No, I didnt think so, you'll be too busy cowering in the corner expecting our forces to protect you ....:Angry: .... amazing isn't it, bet you will support the troops then wont ya, eh !!!:Blush:

Nuff said .... Ta Ta :thumb:

 

[Andy - V8 Diesel]

Not for the faint hearted very graphic you have been WARNED but this is what is going on.



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XE4eRiKrz8[/ame]




UK soilder Joe Glenton REAL Hero This is what they should all do:thumb:



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1X9HsotKag[/ame]



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[spiritsfree]

Well ..... totaly befuggled by some responses on here!

Thanks to my ex forces buddies on here .... it is true....Once a squaddie always a squaddie !:thumb:

Havent really been able to express my feelings appropriatly re some of the full on Lefty comments and I won't drag on with this any longer but together with this thread and a PM I have recieved I will make sure I am more careful to watch what I comment on this site from now on ........................ The heck I will !

Just to clear up : Whilst I am well aware this article was written in the Sun newspaper, my sources of this person come from closer to home and word of mouth! I am well aware the Sun is mainly drivle but one thing the paper clearly does do ( that a lot of you with your lefty comments have left don't ! ) is to support our troops .... both present & past!

Be nice to know, as one reply was from a 'Local Authority' employee, if the gent in question hadn't aimed his sights on ex service personel but aimed at the more corrupt Local Authorities and how he wouldnt employ them over a drug dealer, paedo etc .... just what sort of feeling you would have! There again, as most Local Authority employees in the management area appear as bent as a two bob note and leftie liberal all the way to the bank, I doubt they'd be bothered ! Not aimed at anyone in particular on here ..... just a sweeping statement that's all .... free speech n all that !:Cool:

One thing that would interest me is if / when the s**t hits the fan, which thanks to the way this country is now is only a matter of time, how many of you lefftie liberals will stand up and fight for your rights and defend til the end ? No, I didnt think so, you'll be too busy cowering in the corner expecting our forces to protect you ....:Angry: .... amazing isn't it, bet you will support the troops then wont ya, eh !!!:Blush:

Nuff said .... Ta Ta :thumb:

MOTORHOME CHAT Chat here about anything as long as it is MH related and doesn't fit easily into any other section

 

[johnp10]

At the Nuremberg trials there were lots of Nazis bleating the i was only following orders.

So if soldiers don't agree with the war then don't obey the orders plenty have they are the real hero's in my book:thumb:

each to his own:thumb:

"Plenty" havent!
A few have made the newspapers in doing so, thats all. (Well, one has.)
Refusing to go to war zones is not something I ever heard about in my service. I dare say others on here will say the same.

As always with these posts, only a matter of time before someone mentions Hitler / Nazis etc.
Platitudes are not a viable substitute for reasoned argument.

Not obeying orders is not an option in any disciplined force. Thats the whole point.
The Fire Brigade and Police Services are disciplined forces.
Would you be ok about it if the Firefighters decided to disobey orders and refuse to put your house fire out?
Would you be ok about it if the Police disobeyed orders and stood by to watch you and yours get mugged / assualted / murdered?
Seems you would be!
John

 

[Andy - V8 Diesel]

Would you be ok about it if the Firefighters decided to disobey orders and refuse to put your house fire out?
Would you be ok about it if the Police disobeyed orders and stood by to watch you and yours get mugged / assualted / murdered?
Seems you would be!
John

Plenty have on some bad estate's the police, fire and ambulance refuse to go but hey thats there choice.:thumb:

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[johnp10]

Andy,

Dont see the point of your videos.

The issue in this thread is discrimination against ex service personell on the basis that we are all scum, and that its ok for the guy in the Sun to voice that opinion and openly exclude us from employment.
The issue is not "Look at what's happening" or "What Hitler did".
The issue is us scum.

I for one (and I'm sure there are many others on here) am proud to be able to say I served in my country's armed forces and am proud to have soldiered in this country's interests.
That's not knocking those who didnt. It's a matter of choice.
If that makes us scum, I'm proud to be so.

It saddens me to think of friends lost in the interest of this kind of "free speech".

John

 

[gixermark]

Andy V8 Diesel .... totally idiotic to put this video up as defence!:Blush:

You get bad in all walks of life,more so in civy street, but according to the person I have started this thread about, he would be more than happy to employ these scum on the video ( Rapist's, murderers, Drug dealers, Paedophiles etc ) so I guess it kinda back fired on you matey ........... I wouldn't condone this as I am sure all my past ex squaddie mates wouldnt either .... what this points out is you think ALL soldiers are like this and believe me, they darn well are not!

It simply shows that my comments at the start of this thread are well and truly justified .... would you employ one of these scum from the video in your business over a proven law abiding citizen, be they civy or ex service? I know darn well you wouldn't .....

 

[geoff587]

Being ex squaddies and bikers we must really be the scum of the earth. Maybe having a motorhome gives me a little bit of respectability within the community but just below the Paedophiles and drug dealers.
Reference the vids, we are talking British Army not American.

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[Andy - V8 Diesel]

Andy,

Dont see the point of your videos.

The issue in this thread is discrimination against ex service personell on the basis that we are all scum, and that its ok for the guy in the Sun to voice that opinion and openly exclude us from employment.
The issue is not "Look at what's happening" or "What Hitler did".
The issue is us scum.

I for one (and I'm sure there are many others on here) am proud to be able to say I served in my country's armed forces and am proud to have soldiered in this country's interests.
That's not knocking those who didnt. It's a matter of choice.
If that makes us scum, I'm proud to be so.

It saddens me to think of friends lost in the interest of this kind of "free speech".

John

The first video shows what soldiers are getting upto and it is relevant because as the guy in the Sun news paper says he would not employ soldiers that basically have blood on there hands( blood soaked pay packets)

The sad thing is people are being killed for the elites of this world so they want for nothing Joe public still has to pay for everything and like so many soldiers some pay with there lives all so very,very wrong.

 

[imprint]

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier, or almost repeat it.

We can make posts in the way that some "Funsters" have been doing precisely because other Funsters, and many like them over the centuries, have fought for this any many other freedoms.

Some of the ex-service folk feel insulted, and I don't blame them. Others take it in their stride. I hope a few of those who've been pretty rude to them take a moment to re-think. I wonder if any will be man enough to go on and say sorry. (I say man enough as I doubt if any of those being rude are of the female persuasion)

Any road up, please, please, remember however strongly you feel on this one , that we are really supposed to be here for FUN. It's not too difficult to stand up for your own rights, but guys like the many ex-service posters have been standing up for other people's rights.

 

[Jaws]

As an aside,
I was at a meeting tonight ref web partners, design and Google protocols

This chap came up in the after meeting chat..
Did anyone notice he had put his entire bank details on his web site ?

Lloyds TSB, Fore St, Taunton, Somerset
Sort code 30-98-45 Account No. 03555137
IBAN: GB39 LOYD 3098 4503 5551 37

Interesting to say the least .....
Still baffled as to why he did it unless he is hoping for donations ??

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[gixermark]

As an aside,
I was at a meeting tonight ref web partners, design and Google protocols

This chap came up in the after meeting chat..
Did anyone notice he had put his entire bank details on his web site ?

Lloyds TSB, Fore St, Taunton, Somerset
Sort code 30-98-45 Account No. 03555137
IBAN: GB39 LOYD 3098 4503 5551 37

Interesting to say the least .....
Still baffled as to why he did it unless he is hoping for donations ??

Ha Ha ... yes I did !

When I noticed he'd even put his IBAN code in ..... ah! Very strange !!! :shout:

 

[geoff587]

The first video shows what soldiers are getting upto and it is relevant because as the guy in the Sun news paper says he would not employ soldiers that basically have blood on there hands( blood soaked pay packets)

It shows what American Soldiers are allegedly getting up too, not British Soldiers . Two entirely different animals .

 

[Andy - V8 Diesel]

The first video shows what soldiers are getting upto and it is relevant because as the guy in the Sun news paper says he would not employ soldiers that basically have blood on there hands( blood soaked pay packets)

It shows what American Soldiers are allegedly getting up too, not British Soldiers . Two entirely different animals .

Yeah next you will be telling me british soldiers don't shoot humans.

Blood on hands (blood soaked paypackets)

They should all put there guns down and come home. Maybe then someone might give them a job a real job that does not include killing people.

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[geoff587]

As an aside,
I was at a meeting tonight ref web partners, design and Google protocols

This chap came up in the after meeting chat..
Did anyone notice he had put his entire bank details on his web site ?

Lloyds TSB, Fore St, Taunton, Somerset
Sort code 30-98-45 Account No. 03555137
IBAN: GB39 LOYD 3098 4503 5551 37

Interesting to say the least .....
Still baffled as to why he did it unless he is hoping for donations ??

From the Taliban, Michael Jackson,s Estate and Gary Glitter .

 

[White Rose]

I'm quite happy to say sorry if I've offended anyone - though I'd be a bit mystified as to how...!

I think Gixermark made some rather large assumptions about my background earlier - for what it's worth, my husband is ex navy, brother in law still in, father in law out after 25 years, nephew army, best friend's brother currently in Afghanistan... No, I haven't served myself, but it's not exactly a world that's strange to me, and I know that they would all say the same - we don't like this bloke's opinions, but he's still entitled to hold them.

I've been in the NHS for 20 years. If he'd said the same thing about ex NHS employees, I wouldn't be remotely offended. I'd think he was daft. I'd think he was missing out on some bloody good staff. I'd think he'd probably had a bad experience with one of the bad apples any organisation has. But ultimately, I'd think it's his business and, employment legislation permitting, he can employ exactly who he likes and it's sod all to do with me. I have no more right to tell him how to run his business than to tell you what motorhome to buy.

His opinion is as worth hearing as my opinion that BMW drivers are almost invariably bad drivers overcompensating for something - neither view is anything more than an illogical, unsubstantiated, half baked opinionated crap. Surely to god it's not worth a hate campaign to put someone in fear of their life?

 

[geoff587]

Yeah next you will be telling me british soldiers don't shoot humans.

Blood on hands (blood soaked paypackets)

They should all put there guns down and come home. Maybe then someone might give them a job a real job that does not include killing people.

I know you will have a problem getting your head around this Andy but British Soldiers are human, and the people who they shoot are actively involved in trying to kill them, but I suppose thats allright in your book.

You need to change your name too Peter Pan because you live in never never land

These soldiers could do your job, the question is could you do 24 hrs of theirs.

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[imprint]

Geoff, old 587, you're too modest.

It's not just that our soldiers are defending themselves. Anyone would do that, given the chance.

The point is, our troops are shooting because the bad guys would kill the rest of us. We don't have guns; we rely on those who do.

It's right for us to give the politicians the boot if they push our coutry into the wrong war, but it's not for us to get 'holier than thou' over the chap who's obeying what are from his point of view, what are on the face of it, proper orders. It would be different if, say the front-line squaddie was ordered to pour petrol onto a captice and set fire to hime to encourage the rest to talk. That's in breach of the laws of war, and in that case, obeying orders is no defence.

 

[SwanseaJackold]

Discrimination!!

Freedom of Speech!!

Lots of Laws to cover both!!

But most normal people of this country would be horrified to think that someone would prefer to employ a sex offender, thief or what ever but would not consider employing a trustworthy, hardworking and loyal ex serviceman/woman.

Not a lot of support for our boys and girls who are fighting to try and give us more protection against terrorism and trying to give the ordinary people of a foreign land a better future. They have been asked to do a job and do it they will to the very best of their ability.

This chap and some on this forum also seem to forget that these are the guys and girls who fight fires when the firemen are on strike, help local councils and local people when there are floods or snow storms, help the farming community when there is a foot and mouth epidemic, rescue people from mountains and moors and risk their lives once again airlifting people to safety.

Politicians and politics aside they certainly have my support in what ever they are doing and certainly deserve a better chance in their second career than this chap is offering.

Bob

 

[jhorsf]

I can understand the o/ps anger at this but this guy in the papers is in the minority and will not have any need to employ anyone when he goes broke. I do not think most here would agree with his views as we all know our forces are the best in the world.This sort of thing is typical of the papers and his days as a business man are probably now going to be very few and justly deserved

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[gixermark]

I'm quite happy to say sorry if I've offended anyone - though I'd be a bit mystified as to how...!

I think Gixermark made some rather large assumptions about my background earlier - for what it's worth, my husband is ex navy, brother in law still in, father in law out after 25 years, nephew army, best friend's brother currently in Afghanistan... No, I haven't served myself, but it's not exactly a world that's strange to me, and I know that they would all say the same - we don't like this bloke's opinions, but he's still entitled to hold them.

I've been in the NHS for 20 years. If he'd said the same thing about ex NHS employees, I wouldn't be remotely offended. I'd think he was daft. I'd think he was missing out on some bloody good staff. I'd think he'd probably had a bad experience with one of the bad apples any organisation has. But ultimately, I'd think it's his business and, employment legislation permitting, he can employ exactly who he likes and it's sod all to do with me. I have no more right to tell him how to run his business than to tell you what motorhome to buy.

His opinion is as worth hearing as my opinion that BMW drivers are almost invariably bad drivers overcompensating for something - neither view is anything more than an illogical, unsubstantiated, half baked opinionated crap. Surely to god it's not worth a hate campaign to put someone in fear of their life?

Well luckily White Rose, following hearing all about your family history ( what that has to do with it is beyond me ! ) I listened to various talk radio shows last night, have read several papers this morning and ALL of them .... YES 'ALL' of them agree 100% with what I have mentioned!

And as for the 'Hate Campaign' you mention .... all I asked was for peoples oppinions, no mention of hate. However, now you mention it, Mr Winn himself has said today he will now have to go into hiding because of the constant barrage of calls / e.mails re his comments .... seems lots of others like me don't like his advertising campaign to employ ex child molesters, Paedophiles, drug dealers etc! Strange people power isn't it .... and many of these are NOT ex squaddies but have decent morals and cannot understand how someone can so blatently discriminate against a core of society.

It would appear that, having recieved PM's sent to me so as not to offend others on here, there is a regular group on here who are hell bent on shoving their Lefftie Libberal oppinions on anyone who, like me, dare's to put their head over the wall and shout out about what they feel!

Having spoken to many others at work, talked on other forums, it would appear that those of you on here who are hell bent on knocking my 'bullying tactics' are well and truly in the minority ..... Hallalua, the people of Great Britain do have morrals after all.:thumb:

As for your rant re working in the NHS, my wife too works for the NHS and has done for over 23 years, being a Nurse Clinic Manager for the past 15 years ! She, like me comes from a Forces family backgorund ............. and believe me, she supports all I have written on here and is sick and tired of the double standards the Lefftie's promote in this country!
As for your comment re : "If he'd said the same thing about ex NHS employees, I wouldn't be remotely offended" .... somehow, I really don't think the two jobs are remotley connected! Working for the NHS can be an unforgiving job but rarely ( unless you work in A&E ) are you putting you life on the line to save others whereas as a soldier, it is an everyday occurance whilst in any war zone. I am sure other people you work with Would be offended just like I am sure other serving / ex serving forces Wouldnt give a damn re his comments, but I do hence freedom of speech you lot keep rabbiting on about and me starting what is turning into a "you to me, to you, to me, to you" thread !!!

Before anyone mentions re double standards : Black Police Federation UK !!!! Is there a White Police Federation UK ................ NO, because it simply will not be allowed!:Angry:
Just one example of Double Standards in the UK!!!! ( and NO, before you lot start, I am not bullying anyone re this comment, I am NOT racist, etc etc )

As a final foot note to all this, maybe you 'Leffties' will spare a thought for this Mr Winn's current employees ( 16 in total ) who it would re assuringly appear will now all be out of a job because of support AGAINST Mr Winn's comments, both by present customers but more importantly any future ones, will more than likely fold his business ..... Mmmmm.... Freedom of speech back fired eh!

His comment has been described as a 'Ratner' outbirst ..... and look what happened to his empire !!!

Think thats enough sarcasm from me this morning, off to bed following a 13 hr night shift ........

 

[gixermark]

Oh! And one other thing I would like to add to this discussion albeit a wee bit 'off topic'

...for what it is worth, I like many of my friends I served with and still keep in contact

with are 100% AGAINST the war in

Afghanistan and believe with all out might that ALL

the troops from whatever country they are from, should withdraw immediatly!

It will be a never ending war, with countless lives on both sides lost and just as

importantly, billions & billions of tax payers money wasted !!!


It is with a sad heart I have just heard on the radio whilst sitting here that another 2

young lads have been killed, protecting our 'Freedom' and enabling everyone in this

country to live our lives safetly!

275 lives lost .....hopefully you 'Leffties' will take a deep breath and say that figure again .... 275 !!!!!

My families commiserations go out to the families of these poor soles!:Sad:

 

[TDH]

Be nice to know, as one reply was from a 'Local Authority' employee, if the gent in question hadn't aimed his sights on ex service personel but aimed at the more corrupt Local Authorities and how he wouldnt employ them over a drug dealer, paedo etc .... just what sort of feeling you would have! There again, as most Local Authority employees in the management area appear as bent as a two bob note and leftie liberal all the way to the bank, I doubt they'd be bothered ! Not aimed at anyone in particular on here ..... just a sweeping statement that's all .... free speech n all that !:Cool:

One thing that would interest me is if / when the s**t hits the fan, which thanks to the way this country is now is only a matter of time, how many of you lefftie liberals will stand up and fight for your rights and defend til the end ? No, I didnt think so, you'll be too busy cowering in the corner expecting our forces to protect you ...

None taken! Of course, me having worked for a local authority will influence potential employers because they'll have some thoughts about what that means and the kind of experience I've had.

What makes it really hard to have a discussion with you are the sweeping generalisations you make and your apparent ability to mind read - 'most Local Authority employees in the management area appear as bent as a two bob note and leftie liberal all the way to the bank' is exactly the kind of statement you're moaning about, and 'how many of you lefftie liberals will stand up and fight for your rights and defend til the end ? No, I didnt think so,'. - thank you, Derren Brown, but if you're asking a question why not wait to find out the answer?

I almost can't be ar*ed with this any more, but, just for the record, my son was a regular soldier for many years and my daughter a heroin addict. Tell me, which one made a better employee?

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[gixermark]

None taken! Of course, me having worked for a local authority will influence potential employers because they'll have some thoughts about what that means and the kind of experience I've had.

What makes it really hard to have a discussion with you are the sweeping generalisations you make and your apparent ability to mind read - 'most Local Authority employees in the management area appear as bent as a two bob note and leftie liberal all the way to the bank' is exactly the kind of statement you're moaning about, and 'how many of you lefftie liberals will stand up and fight for your rights and defend til the end ? No, I didnt think so,'. - thank you, Derren Brown, but if you're asking a question why not wait to find out the answer?

I almost can't be ar*ed with this any more, but, just for the record, my son was a regular soldier for many years and my daughter a heroin addict. Tell me, which one made a better employee?

"I almost can't be ar*ed with this any more, but, just for the record, my son was a regular soldier for many years and my daughter a heroin addict. Tell me, which one made a better employee?"
........ Go on, don't tell me .... Your daughter obviously judging by your tone! oh:

I like you have added enough so this will be my last comment on this thread, however, I will not change my self oppiniated bullying tactics for anyone on here ..... if that's the way you think I am so be it ....

 

[Andy - V8 Diesel]

=geoff587;262718]I know you will have a problem getting your head around this Andy but British Soldiers are human, and the people who they shoot are actively involved in trying to kill them, but I suppose thats allright in your book.

Yeah you know why there trying to kill them because there in there country killing there sons and daughters in an illegal war (Blood soaked pay packets)

These soldiers could do your job, the question is could you do 24 hrs of theirs

Would i join the forces eeerrmm no never, why i don't want to kill people for what ever reason government want to make up. I have my own mind and no one tells me what to do, ok maybe the wife every now and then

 

[jhorsf]

Sorry Andy v8 but i think if we all thought like you we would for a long time have been goosestepping and talking in german and the first time you spoke out about something you did not like you would be dealt with as an enemy of the state. You are only allowed to say what you like now without fear of a knock at the door, through the brave men and women past and present that fought with their lives.I for one think our ex forces get little recognition at times for the debt the country owes them.Most of them have defended your right to think and speak freely, this is just my opinion Andy v8 the right to express it is paid for with these lives.I do not expect you will agree with me but that is your right and I respect that

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[Pikey Pete]

I'm a socialist, from the days when the word meant something and I think this Karl Winn is a complete a***ole.
He has probably been one all his life, and now everybody knows that he is.
He does have the right of freedom of speech, as do we all, but he's still an a***ole.

Pete:Cool: