Do we motorhomers really boost the economy? (1 Viewer)

[DP+JAY]

Far less in fact - about 174,000 according to a MCC article I read today.

Has anyone reading this actually asked the councils where they live/visit?
Those who have what was the reaction?
Those who have not why not?

Yes, they are all too scared of upsetting the campsite owners who are local voters/rates payers.

 

[vwalan]

i agree . i went to some of the council meetings about the m,homes by st michaels mount .
the campsite owners were there and although m,homes lost some space . the area as been made into a cycleway. but the councillors did seem to be afraid of the campsite owners . i did ask about an aire as toilet and water facilities are all ready on the car park area . but they remarked there are spaces on the campsite .
there still is lots of free areas just up the road only about 2miles away . but not by the sea.
cornwall does get flooded out with camper/ m,homes every summer , might be the most used holiday area in uk . has been for years .

 

[JJ]

Bloody hell Graham...

£47.50 A DAY!

Some WEEKS I don't spend that much...

Porridge is very affordable here as is out of date bread...

But look at that blue sky... that is there for free (unlike the Sky Blue shirt I hope to get for Christmas).


JJ

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[RS_rob]

We started out in Feb & thought wed buy local & quickly realised how expensive it is so since then try to plan ahead or eat tinned & dried food to cut down the cost.

 

[tambo]

The problems with campsites are,
They are seriously overpriced, one near us is £40 a night, for a few square feet of grass? If I stayed a week I'd expect to own that grass!They say it's to pay for the toilets, showers(which are usually c!!p) & hook up, non of which I want or need.
They are miles away from anywhere I'd want to be. The Aires system is superb, we have stayed on Aires by the beach, in the town, at a museum, at a chateax etc. etc. etc. and for next to nothing(or even nothing).

Exactly ....and full of noisy rioting kids and people sat on deckchairs watching your every move ......i go camping to get away from everyone lol and for me it's a cheap holiday ..im away every second weekend from February till November and 6 weeks during that time .....if I used campsites that wouldn't be possible and is the reason I have a motorhome

 

[magicsurfbus]

One way or another most of our holiday money is spent in France so someone's benefiting when we go over there. I'm not really bothered whether it's a supermarket or a local artisan boulanger - someone's business is receiving money because we spend it there, and that's keeping people in work. We don't feel we have to splash the cash like loonies when we're on holiday - we just pay to visit more visitor attractions and eat out a bit more often than usual. The day to day stuff still comes from the nearest supermarket or bakery. I'd much rather pay a reasonable overnight parking fee to the local council/commune than park for free and somehow feel obliged to buy local goods I neither need nor want at inflated tourist season prices.

If I was trying to sell aires to local authorities I'd be saying a lot more about the parking revenues than benefits to local shops, but there would be some benefits from extra customers. Local traders might sell more if they weren't taking the piss with tourist season pricing. When we were in Vallon Pont d'Arc last April, the week before the tourist season began, we could see shop after shop offloading large boxes of tourist tat from white vans and spreading it around their window displays. I bet half those shops were shut between October and April, so I'm not getting drawn into that racket. The same's true here - when I used to surf all year round on the Lleyn peninsula Abersoch was like a ghost town in winter, with only one (proper) surf shop open. Go back in summer and it was like Surf/Skate/Wakeboard Central with everybody trying to sell you £25 teeshirts.

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[GJH]

Bloody hell Graham...

£47.50 A DAY!

Some WEEKS I don't spend that much...

Porridge is very affordable here as is out of date bread...

But look at that blue sky... that is there for free (unlike the Sky Blue shirt I hope to get for Christmas).


JJ

Yes, JJ, but I don't have to save up to pay inflated prices for football tickets

 

[buttons]

We often see claims of how much motorhomers contribute to boosting local economies where we stay so during our holiday starting with the Sandy meet I decided to keep a rough track of how much we spent.

After Sandy we used a CL, MCC rallies and had 3 nights free camping at a pub.

Average daily spend worked out at about £47.50, of which about 16.5% was accommodation fees (average about £8 a night).

We ate out several times and didn't stint ourselves so we weren't choosing "cheap" for the sake of saving money. Granted we have bus passes, which we used quite a bit, but is £47.50 a day (for two people) really a major boost to the economy?

Dont forget Graham you are the fortunate recipient of an over inflated public service final salary pension

From what I have observed over many years of being a nosey bugger is that mobile holiday makers spend the bare minimum while away. They spend the day in the local beauty spot with a free car park while eating crisps pork pies and coleslaw all purchased from their local Lidl. They fill the local bins with their rubbish before return to their night spot getting the barbi out to cook Lidl own low cost burger and sausage while sitting outside the van getting pissed on Lidl plonk.

 

[makems]

Dont forget Graham you are the fortunate recipient of an over inflated public service final salary pension

From what I have observed over many years of being a nosey bugger is that mobile holiday makers spend the bare minimum while away. They spend the day in the local beauty spot with a free car park while eating crisps pork pies and coleslaw all purchased from their local Lidl. They fill the local bins with their rubbish before return to their night spot getting the barbi out to cook Lidl own low cost burger and sausage while sitting outside the van getting pissed on Lidl plonk.

Not just a nosy bugger but a very observant nosy bugger too

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[Chockswahay]

We have been 'touring' for just over a year now. For us the pleasure is in seeing new places and enjoying the views and (apparent) freedom. We do not 'eat out' nor do we buy the cheapest all the time. We like to wild camp where it is possible and practical to do so as this does of course save a lot of money (300 nights!!).

Whether or not we 'contribute' to the local economy is academic. Why is it that 'motor homers' have to feel justified in their actions?

The fact is that as a result of travelling 18000 miles in the last year we will have made an indirect contribution to the various economies that we have travelled through by way of diesel, food and general living expenses.

Also I think that there is a clear division between touring and holidaying. If we were just on a 2 or 3 week holiday in the 'van we would most definitely eat out more and probably stay at a few CL's too. However when touring for many months at a time the cost would be prohibitive.

As an aside, I think that the Aires system in France is fantastic and does indeed encourage one to tour across France. When we are in France we buy fresh bread, cheese, wine etc in every local village we stop in (however that is because they really know how to make these things!!).

Lastly, and this IS a rant ..... I do feel that when touring throughout the UK we are made to feel a little bit like social outcasts when it comes to getting fresh water and emptying the loo. There is often nowhere to do this other than a 'proper campsite' and they are precisely where I don't want to go. Our van will carry enough water for a week but the loo does of course need emptying at least every other day.......Where?? I will do this in a public toilet if there are no 'no emptying cassette' signs but each time I do I am just waiting for a nimby to tell me off (and my defence will be I pay taxes, rates and the loo has nothing in it that will harm the environment).

In Scotland recently we came across a few toilets with the 'no cassette emptying' signs.............so where are we supposed to do it?? In our case we found somewhere wild and away from water courses, dud a deep hole and buried the contents safely and out of harms way....... but really... should we have to do this??

Rant over

 

[scotjimland]

Dont forget Graham you are the fortunate recipient of an over inflated public service final salary pension

From what I have observed over many years of being a nosey bugger is that mobile holiday makers spend the bare minimum while away. They spend the day in the local beauty spot with a free car park while eating crisps pork pies and coleslaw all purchased from their local Lidl. They fill the local bins with their rubbish before return to their night spot getting the barbi out to cook Lidl own low cost burger and sausage while sitting outside the van getting pissed on Lidl plonk.

well, apart from the plonk.. you've been spying on us

But I agree with your observations.. we don't have anything like £47 a day to spend when away..
It's fill up at a supermarket with fuel and food, stay on CLs.. (don't do off site camping) and enjoy whatever nature has provided by way of walks and scenery..

Don't do take-aways, use pubs or restaurants.. and it's always been like that.. We go away to do things.. not spend money we can't afford.. in effect, we only shift money about from one supermarket to another.

So in reply to Graham's question, apart from site fees, the local economy benefits little..

 

[hilldweller]

Yes, JJ, but I don't have to save up to pay inflated prices for football tickets

Superb shot.

Straight to the heart.

I shall cut off his ears and present them to you.

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[GJH]

(snip)

Whether or not we 'contribute' to the local economy is academic. Why is it that 'motor homers' have to feel justified in their actions?

(snip)
Lastly, and this IS a rant ..... I do feel that when touring throughout the UK we are made to feel a little bit like social outcasts when it comes to getting fresh water and emptying the loo. There is often nowhere to do this other than a 'proper campsite' and they are precisely where I don't want to go. Our van will carry enough water for a week but the loo does of course need emptying at least every other day.......Where?? I will do this in a public toilet if there are no 'no emptying cassette' signs but each time I do I am just waiting for a nimby to tell me off (and my defence will be I pay taxes, rates and the loo has nothing in it that will harm the environment).

In Scotland recently we came across a few toilets with the 'no cassette emptying' signs.............so where are we supposed to do it?? In our case we found somewhere wild and away from water courses, dud a deep hole and buried the contents safely and out of harms way....... but really... should we have to do this??

Rant over

We don't have to justify ourselves but if we want extra (aire type) facilities creating for us (especially if the cost is to come from taxpayers) then the providers must have some evidence of their benefit (direct and indirect).

I don't believe we are treated like outcasts; the differences between facilities in the UK and France/Germany arose (as covered yesterday evening) because touring developed differently here. Public toilets are designed as public toilets not chemical emptying points and that doesn't change just because we don't want to go to proper caravan sites. No cassette emptying signs may well be there because toilets (especially remote ones) are not connected to mains sewerage and may be adversely affected by chemicals used by some people.

Rather than asking the question "should we have to do this?" it could be asked "why do some people expect to have special facilities just so they don't have to use caravan sites?". At the end of the day it is we who choose
to use motorhomes, knowing of the restrictions we face. If we are to convince public or private sector organisations to build (and pay for) special facilities for us then we need to show them real evidence.

 

[GJH]

Don't forget Graham you are the fortunate deserving recipient of an over inflated a reasonable public service final salary pension funded by contributions from salary over many years

From what I have observed over many years of being a nosey bugger is that mobile holiday makers spend the bare minimum while away. They spend the day in the local beauty spot with a free car park while eating crisps pork pies and coleslaw all purchased from their local Lidl. They fill the local bins with their rubbish before return to their night spot getting the barbi out to cook Lidl own low cost burger and sausage while sitting outside the van getting pissed on Lidl plonk.

Buttons' post edited for accuracy

 

[Barclaybasher]

If you wait for things to change (aires in the UK) - you'll be waiting a very long time

As Graham says, if you have a MH just get on with it - use sites, CLs ..................

Then try France

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[vwalan]

lots of places to stop in uk . never had a problem .
you can stop anywhere you want .
but you have to want to stop in a sensible place where you wont upset folk or be a nuisance.
been doing it all my adult life . had a camper for the last 39 yrs and think only ever been knocked by police twice . even then not asked to ,just get off early in the morning please. i find stop by beach etc in day but move inland at night is best option .
the days of spending weekends in beach carparks have definately gone here in cornwall.
used to be able to in the 70,s and 80,s . but not now . yet even newquay as some ideal stopping places for the night just a mile or so inland .

 

[Gaston aires]

We just spent 1 month in South Wales ( Pembrokeshire, and the Gower). During this time we stayed at ACSI, CL, and regular campsites in the area. Overall we spent £ 1200 in the local communities. I guess if all the motorhomes, caravans, and campers did the same thing it all adds up to a lot. I dont believe in freeloading anywhere, and you can still stay at Britstops, france passion, aires, CLs, and ACSI sites for very reasonable rates.
If you stay for free somewhere you should make some contribution, buy some wine cheese, or something. If you dont, all these places will pull the plug on us.
Phil n Gill

 

[Chockswahay]

Public toilets are designed as public toilets not chemical emptying points and that doesn't change just because we don't want to go to proper caravan sites.

I do see your point Graham. I suppose I was not making my point very clearly. It would be nice if toilet dump/water points were provided nationwide (as in Sweden) that can be used by motor homers as they tour the country. I think the choice to use campsites is just that..... a choice......it would be nice if it were not a necessity.

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[vwalan]

I do see your point Graham. I suppose I was not making my point very clearly. It would be nice if toilet dump/water points were provided nationwide (as in Sweden) that can be used by motor homers as they tour the country. I think the choice to use campsites is just that..... a choice......it would be nice if it were not a necessity.

the problem still comes back to the uk set itself up to cater for caravans years ago.
authority at the time allowed m,homes or the smaller campers of the era use caravan /camping sites . they never expected so many to later get m,homes , and the freedom a m,home gives doesnt fit in with the old fashioned idea.
i have tried several times to get local councils to put a seperate toilet dump area by local public toilets .
as graham says , in towns inland folk dont want to stop. by the sea most toilets are cess pits and require emptying regularly . unfortunately only limmited places that can take lots of chemical toilet waste .
i did work in the sewage industry in later years and know the difficulty of where do i tip this load .
i was on call from sww at weekends and bank holidays to empty the tanks with a tanker.
many of the small sewage works get spoilt by chemicals in the summer . it really is a problem . again a 20x influx of population causes many problems .
in many of the villages even new housing estates have cesspit type sewage systems even today .one in our neighbouring village is being built at the moment . will need emptying almost weekly .
it all makes organizing these things much harder .
in winter its like a ghost town in most of the tourist areas . virtually park where you like then ,nobody cares .

 

[GJH]

I do see your point Graham. I suppose I was not making my point very clearly. It would be nice if toilet dump/water points were provided nationwide (as in Sweden) that can be used by motor homers as they tour the country. I think the choice to use campsites is just that..... a choice......it would be nice if it were not a necessity.

I totally agree that it would be nice if dump/water points were available. The trouble is that provision has a cost.

As an example, we were at a small site recently which has a well built cassette emptying point with its own tap for rinsing and a separate fresh water tap. The owners were lucky in that there had been a school (long demolished) in what is now the next field so there were blanked off water and sewage facilities which they could connect to. Had those not been there they would have faced a bill of £20,000 to connect into the pipes under the road (only a couple of hundred metres away).

That sort of cost is going to deter any local authority.

 

[Cobweb]

If you sit in your van and drink supermarket beer and eat supermarket food why on earth do you have a motorhome??? Might as well sit on your drive.

Just a personal opinion

Do educate us and tell us what and where you eat and drink if you manage to
avoid supermarket food and beer totally ?

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[BreweryDave]

The original post was about supporting local business. Of course I have the essentials from the supermarket on board, you can't avoid them totally but that's not what I said -but if I go somewhere the idea is to get out and about - local shops and pubs etc. and add that into the mix.
I think there are many who try to do the cheapest thing possible and then just sit on a campsite without venturing out. Each to their own but missing out in my opinion.
We are full time - and when at our base camp we do just that as it's normal life - but as soon as we turn a wheel the idea is to do and experience things differently than at 'home' and that includes local pubs restaurants cafés butchers bakers etc and avoiding the supermarket giants where possible.

 

[sdc77]

This thread just underlines the wide range of motorhome owners..
Our take..
Short weekends away.. Don't spend that much.. Just go on walks with dog.. Maybe visit local pubs.. attractions etc. Van will have enough food and beer to keep us going..
Longer periods away in the UK or abroad..
We will shop locally and get nice stuff.. We will eat out... anywhere we can take the dog.. Will visit local attractions and scenic locations and we will pay into the local economy...
If we didn't have the van then we probably wouldn't visit some of the places we do /have

 

[Cobweb]

Hi

I agree that many times the Campsite or Aire seems to be the destination for many motorhomers and often we have set off on a cycle trip for several hours and on our return found the very same people sitting in the spot where we saw them earlier but now fast asleep ...... Each to their own I guess . We also try to shop in small shops and eat out when possible but the ease of pulling into a supermarket car park especially when we need heavies liken wine an beer etc is quite tempting .

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[buttons]

This thread just underlines the wide range of motorhome owners..
Our take..
Short weekends away.. Don't spend that much.. Just go on walks with dog.. Maybe visit local pubs.. attractions etc. Van will have enough food and beer to keep us going..
Longer periods away in the UK or abroad..
We will shop locally and get nice stuff.. We will eat out... anywhere we can take the dog.. Will visit local attractions and scenic locations and we will pay into the local economy...
If we didn't have the van then we probably wouldn't visit some of the places we do /have

Could be another aspect of the north south divide.

 

[vwalan]

Could be another aspect of the north south divide.

i travel from cornwall with a mate from scotland .
we play the how little do we have to spend game .
i think some just have lots to spend and do.
we dont have lots so dont.
mind away for 6 months stopping on campsites and eating out every night would be incredibly expensive .
but some do.
cant knock them . what ever they like they can do.
beer is 65c eoro a litr in spain 5% so goes down well . cant see the need to use bars .
drink with friends and have a party most nights . could be miles away from the local town . some lovely country stop overs if you look hard enough .

 

[GJH]

The original post was about supporting local business. Of course I have the essentials from the supermarket on board, you can't avoid them totally but that's not what I said -but if I go somewhere the idea is to get out and about - local shops and pubs etc. and add that into the mix.
I think there are many who try to do the cheapest thing possible and then just sit on a campsite without venturing out. Each to their own but missing out in my opinion.
We are full time - and when at our base camp we do just that as it's normal life - but as soon as we turn a wheel the idea is to do and experience things differently than at 'home' and that includes local pubs restaurants cafés butchers bakers etc and avoiding the supermarket giants where possible.

Tried a Clanger yet Dave?

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[BreweryDave]

Tried a Clanger yet Dave?

haha - sold out when I popped up there on Saturday!

Which reminds me (and very relevant to this thread!).....
At the Sandy Meet & Ciderfest in July, there were 32 MH's on the rally field of what is normally a fairly quiet CS site on the edge of town.
The Pub guvnor knew I had arranged this meet, on the back of the cider festival at the pub. What was very nice to hear though was the feedback passed on to him about how busy the town had seemed that weekend, with the local shops and food outlets especially noticing an 'upturn' in trade. Hardly surprising with upwards of 70 Funsters adding to the population - and buying food and drink as well as 'provisions' !
So - it was noticed, and it made a difference

Q.E.D.

 

[Steve101uk]

To me it's simple. If I am in France and spending money then there is economic benefit. If I am in the UK then the same applies. You only have to look at the set up at Le Crotoy or Honfleur to demonstrate the economic benefits. It about providing a service that people want to use. Of course in lets privatise England the only way an aire would be created is if a local business or entrepreneur set one up and dealt with all the nonsense from the planning permission through to local campsite owner objections, concerns about travellers/gypsies etc.

Another thought is how do we sell UK motorhoming to our euro cousins. How do you explain to a French motorhome the British system and expect him to want to visit. I was discussing this recently with my Dad as we avoid campsites by using C&CC DA rallies. Explaining to a fellow european that visiting the UK basically means paying campsite fees everywhere, often camped out of town with very limited parking anywhere else isn't going to sound attractive.

And don't get me started on the state of UK motorway service stations and their inability to provide anything half decent for anyone, let alone motorhomes and caravans.

 

[sdc77]

To me it's simple. If I am in France and spending money then there is economic benefit. If I am in the UK then the same applies. You only have to look at the set up at Le Crotoy or Honfleur to demonstrate the economic benefit

.. Isn't it compulsory to eat in a restaurant at Honfleur?

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