Disgusting habits of some motorhomers - I sometimes despair!! (1 Viewer)

[Northernraider]

The fuss is not about cars (or any vehicles) parking it is about motorhomes being used for camping. It is high time people (including those trying to excuse there own behaviour) understood that in the UK there is a difference. It doesn't matter what is the case in other countries but UK law which applies.

The fact that some choose to camp illegally rather than open constructive dialogue about providing an alternative is easily sufficient to give councils the wrong impression. Motorhomes may not need caravan sites but the message being broadcast is not that but simply that their owners want something for nothing.

Define camping ?

If I'm sat in a camper van with doors and windows closed cooking or having a shower it's exactly the same as if I was sat in a car with a portable cooker or pouring a bottle of water over my head.

The fact that one is designed for living in should not make any difference if it only leaves behind tyre tracks.

 

[Bobby22]

This figure could easily be reached, time you buy the land connect up to sewers lighting water electric, dig out level and create surface. Fencing barriers lighting cameras staff local business rates etc.50k seems like a conservative estimate to me. This is without aftercare and maintenance.

Balderdash!! They only need to put in a tank and empty every so often. The land is already being used by tourists and visitors. If they have so many visitors to a nice area wouldn't it be prudent to put toilets there.
These reports have always got an underlying agenda. All these motorhomers visiting a beautiful area and not using the nearby sites.

Wonder why???

 

[chaser]

The last few words are the reason. Fines are easy to collect. involve no collection of "evidence", have many "Arse covering" get out clauses. In fact it`s the way to go for MOST Bureaucracies.

Not true, surely it's easier to collect parking fees than all the attendant bumpf with sending out fine notices and the monies from parking is in the bank the next day.

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[GJH]

What?

Define camping ?

If I'm sat in a camper van with doors and windows closed cooking or having a shower it's exactly the same as if I was sat in a car with a portable cooker or pouring a bottle of water over my head.

The fact that one is designed for living in should not make any difference if it only leaves behind tyre tracks.

What again?

In the UK caravan (including motorhome) use is governed by the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
S1(4) of the Act defines a “caravan site” as “land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed”. Therefore, as soon as anyone brings a caravan (including a motorhome/motor caravan/camper van) onto a piece of land for the purpose of human habitation (rather than simply parking or storage) the land becomes a caravan site. It doesn't matter what the usual use of the land is (e.g. drive/garden, pub car park, farmyard, field). Neither does it matter what description (e.g. stopover, nightstop) is applied to the land; by virtue of S1(4) of the Act it is a caravan site as far as the law is concerned.

It doesn't matter one jot what some people might wish they could define camping as but in the UK, where a motorhome is concerned, it is human habitation.

 

[chaser]

What?

What again?

In the UK caravan (including motorhome) use is governed by the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
S1(4) of the Act defines a “caravan site” as “land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed”. Therefore, as soon as anyone brings a caravan (including a motorhome/motor caravan/camper van) onto a piece of land for the purpose of human habitation (rather than simply parking or storage) the land becomes a caravan site. It doesn't matter what the usual use of the land is (e.g. drive/garden, pub car park, farmyard, field). Neither does it matter what description (e.g. stopover, nightstop) is applied to the land; by virtue of S1(4) of the Act it is a caravan site as far as the law is concerned.

It doesn't matter one jot what some people might wish they could define camping as but in the UK, where a motorhome is concerned, it is human habitation.

As long as we are still in Europe , why are we not useing European law?

 

[PeteH]

Not true, surely it's easier to collect parking fees than all the attendant bumpf with sending out fine notices and the monies from parking is in the bank the next day.

IF, what you say is true, why do the parking companies, fail to pursue the larger percentage of those who decline to respond to their "Parking Charges"?. I half expect to get a P-C from East Riding for last Sunday, The "meter" was FULL, and the only way left to pay was with a Credit/debit card which I refuse to do anyway. I HAD the cash, was prepared to use it. BUT.

They wont come after me I Guarantee. I`d love to have my day in court on that one!

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[Busman]

What?

What again?

In the UK caravan (including motorhome) use is governed by the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
S1(4) of the Act defines a “caravan site” as “land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed”. Therefore, as soon as anyone brings a caravan (including a motorhome/motor caravan/camper van) onto a piece of land for the purpose of human habitation (rather than simply parking or storage) the land becomes a caravan site. It doesn't matter what the usual use of the land is (e.g. drive/garden, pub car park, farmyard, field). Neither does it matter what description (e.g. stopover, nightstop) is applied to the land; by virtue of S1(4) of the Act it is a caravan site as far as the law is concerned.

It doesn't matter one jot what some people might wish they could define camping as but in the UK, where a motorhome is concerned, it is human habitation.

So is that private land or public land ????

 

[Northernraider]

What?

What again?

In the UK caravan (including motorhome) use is governed by the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
S1(4) of the Act defines a “caravan site” as “land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed”. Therefore, as soon as anyone brings a caravan (including a motorhome/motor caravan/camper van) onto a piece of land for the purpose of human habitation (rather than simply parking or storage) the land becomes a caravan site. It doesn't matter what the usual use of the land is (e.g. drive/garden, pub car park, farmyard, field). Neither does it matter what description (e.g. stopover, nightstop) is applied to the land; by virtue of S1(4) of the Act it is a caravan site as far as the law is concerned.

It doesn't matter one jot what some people might wish they could define camping as but in the UK, where a motorhome is concerned, it is human habitation.

Then I'll continue to do as I've done the last 28 years and ignore it.

If I park my motorhome in the same place as a lorry bus car or van ....leave no mess and do no damage then ill continue to do it and I will argue for my right to do it.

 

[Louis]

You do realise all those campsite owners will be talking to each other and the councillors named will be representing their specific interests. Very much like almost every farmer in the UK belongs to a local group which forms a huge national interest lobby.

But it wasn’t those campsite owners interests that were quoted, it was two Councillors who had interests 6 miles further along the coast

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[rob0114]

This made regional radio news today here in North Wales though the presenter stated the incident involved a caravan! Hooray I thought, no mention of motorhomes though probably thought of as the same thing (perish the thought!)

Out of order either way

 

[MR. FUSION]

But it wasn’t those campsite owners interests that were quoted, it was two Councillors who had interests 6 miles further along the coast

They are the councillors for the caravan site owners.....clearly.

 

[Bobby22]

Similar scenario @ Dornoch sands last year.
I am of the opinion that caravanning/motorhoming/ camping is going through it's biggest change for many many years.

Young Caravanners need to sit an extended driving test if they passed their driving test after Jan 1997. ( to pull a van more than 750kg i think) This takes in people nearing 40 years of age.
So instead of buying a Caravan they buy a motorhome that their licence covers.
This gives us more motorhomes on the road ( which are more convenient)
There are also more people having staycations due to terrorism.
More access to hire fleets, internet site seekers and social media make motorhoming/campervanning a very attractive holiday.

In turn campsite owners that have invested a lot of money in fancy sites with all the luxury pitches and shower blocks are no longer needed as everything a motorhomer needs he has in his van.
Why would i want to pay £28 for an overnight stop ( i have done but only once) in at 5.30 pm out before 10am and never used any facilities.

These sites need to reassess what the camper wants and needs.

The big boys have cottoned on and offer very deals out of season.

We as motorhome owners must stick together and also police ourselves and point out any bad behaviour to others that way these site owners will have nothing to complain about.

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[Tony Roe]

I was at Abergele (in my car) on Sunday afternoon. The ramp down to the car park on the beach was lined with motorhomes, some up on levelling ramps so obviously there for the weekend. As I drove past at least 2 of them had dirty pools of waste grey around the outlets and running down the ramp. This is what causes the issues. Why not just take it away and empty it somewhere sensible? There is no excuse for leaving dog mess on a beach and even less for emptying a toilet. That is disgusting.

 

[Bobby22]

I was at Abergele (in my car) on Sunday afternoon. The ramp down to the car park on the beach was lined with motorhomes, some up on levelling ramps so obviously there for the weekend. As I drove past at least 2 of them had dirty pools of waste grey around the outlets and running down the ramp. This is what causes the issues. Why not just take it away and empty it somewhere sensible? There is no excuse for leaving dog mess on a beach and even less for emptying a toilet. That is disgusting.

You are making sweeping statements, because a motorhome is on levelling ramps doesn't mean its there for the weekend, they need to be level for the fridge to work.
How dirty was their grey waste? I have a drain at home and don't often see any dirty pools? We don't believe the ( with an axe to grind ) reports of toilet emptying. Have you seen it youself?

Some people break the rules we will out them as we don't want to be tarred with that brush.

By he way to Fun

 

[tonyidle]

The fuss is not about cars (or any vehicles) parking it is about motorhomes being used for camping. It is high time people (including those trying to excuse there own behaviour) understood that in the UK there is a difference. It doesn't matter what is the case in other countries but UK law which applies.

The fact that some choose to camp illegally rather than open constructive dialogue about providing an alternative is easily sufficient to give councils the wrong impression. Motorhomes may not need caravan sites but the message being broadcast is not that but simply that their owners want something for nothing.

Would it not simplify the situation to approach the LA to ask for 24h camping arrangements with no facilities? What is necessary under current legislation for that to happen? I'm trying to differentiate between the need for aire-type facilities and those required for a 24h stop. A self-sufficent mh will manage 2 or 3 such stops and then 1 on a site of some sort to empty / fill. That seems like a reasonable compromise.

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[Louis]

They are the councillors for the caravan site owners.....clearly.

Have you any idea how North Wales councillors work? Doubt it

 

[Louis]

Similar scenario @ Dornoch sands last year.
I am of the opinion that caravanning/motorhoming/ camping is going through it's biggest change for many many years.

Young Caravanners need to sit an extended driving test if they passed their driving test after Jan 1997. ( to pull a van more than 750kg i think) This takes in people nearing 40 years of age.
So instead of buying a Caravan they buy a motorhome that their licence covers.
This gives us more motorhomes on the road ( which are more convenient)
There are also more people having staycations due to terrorism.
More access to hire fleets, internet site seekers and social media make motorhoming/campervanning a very attractive holiday.

In turn campsite owners that have invested a lot of money in fancy sites with all the luxury pitches and shower blocks are no longer needed as everything a motorhomer needs he has in his van.
Why would i want to pay £28 for an overnight stop ( i have done but only once) in at 5.30 pm out before 10am and never used any facilities.

These sites need to reassess what the camper wants and needs.

The big boys have cottoned on and offer very deals out of season.

We as motorhome owners must stick together and also police ourselves and point out any bad behaviour to others that way these site owners will have nothing to complain about.

Bill hooks, try and book a pitch at Greenactes Porthmadog for the next Bank Hols or Summer Hols, they are sited nearly on that beach!!

And their pitch price are extortionate.

 

[Shrimp]

We will never have Aires in UK partly because of the idiots & gypsy/travellers & the government!
Plus we don’t have the funds for creating nor policing the Aires!

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[Larrynwin]

I use campsites by choice and preference , CLs, CMClub, private sites etc.
In more than one post in this thread it has been stated that motorhomers do not need sites, that is wrong and probably misinformed.
Through the summer months in the UK many campsites are very busy and at weekends it can be difficult to get booked in on some due to location.
If campsites are not needed, why through the winter months are many commercial sites on the Iberian peninsular coast full for much of the time.
In my opinion many more motorhomers use campsites than wildcamp and it seems clear there is a split between those that are prepared to pay for serviced pitches and those that want something for nothing.
It’s a personal choice .

 

[ShiftZZ]

Let's assume that the story is true. Let's assume that the local politicians are impartial. Just for a second.

If true, then no funster or motorhomer who accept this type of behaviour.
Looking at it in this light, you can see the argument for I creasing the restrictions

 

[jezport]

What?

What again?

In the UK caravan (including motorhome) use is governed by the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
S1(4) of the Act defines a “caravan site” as “land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed”. Therefore, as soon as anyone brings a caravan (including a motorhome/motor caravan/camper van) onto a piece of land for the purpose of human habitation (rather than simply parking or storage) the land becomes a caravan site. It doesn't matter what the usual use of the land is (e.g. drive/garden, pub car park, farmyard, field). Neither does it matter what description (e.g. stopover, nightstop) is applied to the land; by virtue of S1(4) of the Act it is a caravan site as far as the law is concerned.

It doesn't matter one jot what some people might wish they could define camping as but in the UK, where a motorhome is concerned, it is human habitation.

It does matter though, see definition below

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/learner-english/camping
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/camping

It does matter what a caravan is, see definition below
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/caravan
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/learner-english/caravan

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/8-9/62
When I looked at the Act you quote link above, there is no mention of Caravan including a motorhome/motor caravan/camper van. It clearly says caravan. And as it is a legal document Caravan means Caravan, not car, bus, motorhome or lorry which all could be slept in but cannot be considered a caravan.
See below if you need a definition of a caravan

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[jezport]

Let's assume that the story is true. Let's assume that the local politicians are impartial. Just for a second.

If true, then no funster or motorhomer who accept this type of behaviour.
Looking at it in this light, you can see the argument for I creasing the restrictions

If someone leaves waste illegally they should be dealt with through fines etc. You cant just ban all people with similar vehicles or pastimes. It just doesnt make sense.

 

[MR. FUSION]

If someone leaves waste illegally they should be dealt with through fines etc. You cant just ban all people with similar vehicles or pastimes. It just doesnt make sense.

It makes perfect sense if your council is part made up of caravan site owners......

 

[MR. FUSION]

Have you any idea how North Wales councillors work? Doubt it

Please enlighten me as to how they work ????

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[Bobby22]

Bill hooks, try and book a pitch at Greenactes Porthmadog for the next Bank Hols or Summer Hols, they are sited nearly on that beach!!

And their pitch price are extortionate.

Is that the same company that heavily discount pitches in the quieter times. £7 inc electric for up to six people.
Yes it will be very busy on bank holidays and in the high season there are plenty of CARAVANS out there some of us that have grandkids will take them to these sites for a holiday.
Some of the best holidays my kids have had were at commercial sites and they have been around the world a bit.
BUT does that mean i have to pay £28 for a stopover or £84 for a w/e at a site with nothing but mown grass and an electric hookup just to be parked in a nice area?

 

[Louis]

Please enlighten me as to how they work ????

Unless they benefit somehow they are quite useless, similar to most I imagine

 

[MR. FUSION]

Unless they benefit somehow they are quite useless, similar to most I imagine

Benefits are often below the RADAR, banning campers from the beach will benefit all campsite owners around the area. And as campers input otherwise into the local economy can be questionable and patchy they have gone for the ban that gives the most directly to the councillors who own the campsites and the owners they represent in the butty network they run.

On the BBC site there is an option to ask them to investigate a story further, I suggest a practical approach would be to ask them to look into this one and possible vested interests like I have

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[Northernraider]

Benefits are often below the RADAR, banning campers from the beach will benefit all campsite owners around the area. And as campers input otherwise into the local economy can be questionable and patchy they have gone for the ban that gives the most directly to the councillors who own the campsites and the owners they represent in the butty network they run.

On the BBC site there is an option to ask them to investigate a story further, I suggest a practical approach would be to ask them to look into this one and possible vested interests like I have

I wouldn't be surprised if the campsites also had shops and bars on them so monopolizing the money coming in to.

Wild camping ..the money gets shared around a few local establishments.

 

[Louis]

Benefits are often below the RADAR, banning campers from the beach will benefit all campsite owners around the area. And as campers input otherwise into the local economy can be questionable and patchy they have gone for the ban that gives the most directly to the councillors who own the campsites and the owners they represent in the butty network they run.

On the BBC site there is an option to ask them to investigate a story further, I suggest a practical approach would be to ask them to look into this one and possible vested interests like I have

I agree, but, this supposedly motorhomer who committed the act would possibly be difficult to persuade to pay the extortionate pitch fees in that area, more likely they’d find another spot to eject their waste

 

[Louis]

Is that the same company that heavily discount pitches in the quieter times. £7 inc electric for up to six people.
Yes it will be very busy on bank holidays and in the high season there are plenty of CARAVANS out there some of us that have grandkids will take them to these sites for a holiday.
Some of the best holidays my kids have had were at commercial sites and they have been around the world a bit.
BUT does that mean i have to pay £28 for a stopover or £84 for a w/e at a site with nothing but mown grass and an electric hookup just to be parked in a nice area?

Yes it’s a Commercial site. £7 won’t get you in though, and yes I did mean school hols. Not sure what your referring to with prices quoted. Since the referbishment to pitches ive been unable to book a pitch- fully booked weeks in advance m

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