Disaster towing Smart car (1 Viewer)

DJP

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Camcondor
You make comments about people not reading posts correctly!

I said
Just make sure if you do take notice of this confusing advice, make sure the ignition is NOT switched ON or damage WILL be caused, not to the gearbox but to the electronics.

Prey be told then, that I and thousands of other Smart owners CAN think of a very good reason to travel with the key IN THE IGNITION, TURNED TO THE FIRST POSITION, CAR IN NEUTRAL when towing, as this is the safe way to tow a Smart without damage according to the Smart forums, the Smart independent garages I have spoken to, and to Towtal, who fitted our, and many 100s of other, A Frames to Smart Cars. There will be NO "ELECTRONIC" damage to the car if towed in this manner.

I said and I quote from my earlier "prey tell" post

make sure the ignition is NOT switched ON which would be position 2

I did not say or question DO NOT TURN TO FIRST POSITION!

With the key turned to the 1st position, what happens then? Apart from being able to switch the radio on, not a lot? Or does yours do something mine never did?:RollEyes:

Hook it up onto A frame and van, put it neutral, take the handbrake off, take the key out, lock it up, check the lights and off you jolly well go:thumb:

BTW our A frame was also fitted by Towtal in 2006, no mention of key position, in or out.
 
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RuthRv

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Hi Camcondor,
You gave your opinion based on your own experience of towing your smart car for many years, people don't have to follow your advice that is there choice, you are only trying to help, so you just carry on doing what works for you:thumb:

ps retired, sorry about your mishap hope you mange to resolve having no toad soon:Smile:
 

camcondor

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You make comments about people not reading posts correctly!

Yes - and you clearly made comments showing that you didn't read mine correctly. Ambiguous comment about the ignition - it is clearly "on" in 1st position as it is not "off" - it is only "off" when the key is out of the ignition completely or completely turned to the left. Any other position is "on", albeit to a degree.

You are obviously not too keen on anyone else having an opinion - mine is based on years of motorhoming and I'll voice it as and when I like without your permission !!
Wasn't aware you are the Chief of Opinion Police !!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Forums are all about people sharing info and helping one another, not lurking about waiting to viciously attack anyone daring to voice an opinion at variance with your own - there is an alternate MH forum where people enjoy doing that kind of thing.....deja vu perhaps?

Our Smart tows perfectly the way I described; there is no compulsion to do it YOUR way or any other, for that matter. And yes, my Smart is very likely different to yours - there are variations in model and features!!!!

Towtal fitters advised key in - so did many many others, so that's how we do it as it makes good sense. All a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE IN THE END :Eeek: Perhaps a more TOLERANT approach to other people's opinions would be more helpful - disagreement does not mean that individuals have to be slammed and slated for voicing their own well-founded opinion which works well in practice!!!:Eeek::Eeek::Eeek:

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hilldweller

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Forums are all about people sharing info and helping one another,

Or not as has recently been shown.

Don't use a TV regulator - MUST use a TV regulator.

Leave key in - DON'T leave key in.

Use METAL fitting for battery vent.

And many others.

Regretfully there are many things posted that vary from silly to dangerous.

Is there an answer to this ???????
 

keith

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Or not as has recently been shown.

Don't use a TV regulator - MUST use a TV regulator.

Leave key in - DON'T leave key in.

Use METAL fitting for battery vent.

And many others.

Regretfully there are many things posted that vary from silly to dangerous.

Is there an answer to this ???????

Probably not. But the forums would be boring if we all agreed all the time, wouldn't they? :Eeek:

Different people will have different opinions, what I object to is opinions being expressed as though they are facts without any substantial research to back up the 'fact'.

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camcondor

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The end result is the same. We just agree to disagree on how we get there.:winky:

The journey to the end result can involve interesting debate without being insulting to those who disagree with a particular opinion, though. :Eeek:
 

hilldweller

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Probably not. But the forums would be boring if we all agreed all the time, wouldn't they? :Eeek:

Different people will have different opinions, what I object to is opinions being expressed as though they are facts without any substantial research to back up the 'fact'.

It's when things get dangerous or expensive that it all gets "interesting". No-one likes to be told they are wrong in front of 5000 people. Some take it better than others.

So when/where do we draw the line ?
 

pappajohn

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just out of curiousity.....

if the key is removed from a regular car ie...ford, nissan, vauxhall etc then the steering lock is well and truely ON and you dont want the steering lock on while towing.....though some folks have posted they do remove the key.
doesnt do much for the tyres on winding roads:Doh:

does this differ from a Smart car?

can you remove the key in the 'accessory/steering lock off' position?

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gazznsam

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a smart car dosent have a steering lock,

the ignition is between the handbrake and gear lever down between the seats,

when the key is taken out of the ignition, it locks the gear lever into either neuteral or reverse,
 
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just out of curiousity.....

if the key is removed from a regular car ie...ford, nissan, vauxhall etc then the steering lock is well and truely ON and you dont want the steering lock on while towing.....though some folks have posted they do remove the key.
doesnt do much for the tyres on winding roads:Doh:

does this differ from a Smart car?

can you remove the key in the 'accessory/steering lock off' position?

Hi papajohn,

Not realy relevant as previously mentioned in my two pennyworth the ignition key is in the transmission tunnel not in the steering. So the steering has no lock wether ignition on or off

Brian
 

gazznsam

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I did not say or question DO NOT TURN TO FIRST POSITION!

With the key turned to the 1st position, what happens then? Apart from being able to switch the radio on, not a lot? Or does yours do something mine never did?

i can only comment on my smart car, which is a smart fortwo 451, 09 reg diesel,

there is only 2 positions for my ignition key, on and start, the key could be left half turned i guess, but there is no position 1 and position 2.

i put the key in the lock, turn to the right till it clicks, dash comes alive, glow plug light on,
when it goes out, flick the key to the start position and release, engine starts up... key dosent need holding to start, it runs the starter however long is needed to start the engine and shuts it off when it's started,

my engine wont attempt to start untill the glow plug light has gone out (and i am aware it's not a glow plug as such being a direct injection engine, but it's faffing about checking the system out and all that)

anyhoo, i was told ignition key OUT, and lock car up normaly if i went for an a-frame, but that could be just for the new shape diesels, all the new models, or even all smarts, i just know that is what applies to mine,

i do know that if i have the ignition on, the hill start assist thingy is active, which i explained earlier holds the brakes on for a second so you can pull away without having to use the handbrake, and wont roll back unless your very very slow moving from brake to throttle pedal,

and also, if the box was in gear, with the ignition on when the vehicle reaches 14mph, it will release the clutch,

i dont know if the clutch will stay up with the ignition off, prolly not.. if i turn my engine off with the box in reverse, when i get out i can hear the clutch solenoid is active (it sounds like it's a hydraulic clutch actuator by the sounds of a fluid pump running, i dunno exactly what the clutch actuator is on the smarts, i know the gear change is an electric motor, 2 on the 451.. one for up and one for down)

anyway, the noise stops after about 10 seconds, i can only imagine then it's released the clutch, one day i'll go under the car and have a look,

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camcondor

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The US Smart Car forums indicate that there are differences between towing new Smarts and the older fortwos on A frames - the 09 Smart has quite a few differences to its predecessors. Ours has a service due soon so will ask our independent if there is a different approach to towing the new ones and get yet another opinion. In the end, we all do what we believe to be best for ourselves and there is nothing like years of experience to establish what works for you, or not. Those like us who have been towing a Smart without incident for many years can't be doing too much wrong in their approach to towing it, then. :RollEyes:
 

moandick

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I tow a Volvo V70 estate on an A Frame - totally at the other end of the weight spectrum from this thread - Thank goodness for that - my towing is soooo simple compared to what hs been discussed on this thread. :Eeek:
 

gazznsam

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yeah, the american smarts are fully approved for a-frame towing, you can even buy them with an a-frame and the lights ready wired up from the dealer,

over there a-framing is so common smart would be shooting its self in the foot if they took the european aproach and said no, as it's the ideal tow car, small, light, fugal on fuel, park it anywhere, cheap to insure, and so much fun to drive.

i wonder if the american smarts have some extra software for the gearbox tho, to ensure it's in neuteral when the electrical connection between the rv and the smart is made, as we know how the americans love sueing anyone for anything they can.

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OP
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Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. With hindsight I suspect that what I did was leave it in gear when I thought it was in neutral. The lever was in neutral but perhaps as others have pointed out it could still be in gear as I'm not sure I checked the display.
It's still with our local garage who is trying to get some cheap parts but I'm not too hopeful.

So no Toad, guess we can catch a bus.:cry:
 

JayDee

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Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. With hindsight I suspect that what I did was leave it in gear when I thought it was in neutral. The lever was in neutral but perhaps as others have pointed out it could still be in gear as I'm not sure I checked the display.
It's still with our local garage who is trying to get some cheap parts but I'm not too hopeful.

So no Toad, guess we can catch a bus.:cry:


Hi Grenville,
That really is a bummer isn't it!:Sad:. Hope that your chaps manage to sort it.

Neither Pat nor I can remember if you planned to go to Malvern. Will we see you there?

Best of luck.

John
 

potjoe

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Try the webb sites

Hi, Have you tryed all the smart webb site`s as ther is alot of them and some one will help you, the smart club,wellsmart, just two of them .:Eeek::Eeek::Eeek:

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As a relatively newbie I am getting more and more confused. I was thinking of buying a smart to tow but I understood A frames were not allowed on the continent. Perhaps I had imagined that I had read it somewhere. Can someone give me a one line answer please? Thank you.
 

The Nomad

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As a relatively newbie I am getting more and more confused. I was thinking of buying a smart to tow but I understood A frames were not allowed on the continent. Perhaps I had imagined that I had read it somewhere. Can someone give me a one line answer please? Thank you.
Correct. Illegal to use on any public road in many mainland European countries. Some Brits still ignore those other countries national laws and mostly get away with it.

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scotjimland

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As a relatively newbie I am getting more and more confused. I was thinking of buying a smart to tow but I understood A frames were not allowed on the continent. Perhaps I had imagined that I had read it somewhere. Can someone give me a one line answer please? Thank you.

correct.. as said.. illegal in most mainland European counties

but this discussion was Nine years ago .. back then they were used widely without problems.. times and regulations change
 
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Best get a trailer and save yourself a lot of hassle if planning to go over the water.h(y)(y)(y)
But that's only my opinion;)

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stewartwebr

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If you want to have the latest Smart fortwo (453) automatic in neutral you need to have the key in the ignition. You have no choice, the ignition key is locked in the ignition and cannot be released until the car is in Park.
I found this to my pearl when I purchased my Smart. I need it to be in neutral to allow me to pull it into the rear of the motorhome. At first I did not see it as a problem leaving the key in as it would be secure in the car garage. However, on arrival at site I had a flat battery. The ignition and all the remaining equipment remain powered when the car is in neutral. I have fitted a battery isolator switch which need to be operated before I tow the car into the van. Luckily the clocks both reset themselves so its not a huge issue.
For the record, the older Smarts with the ignition key in the central console did not have steering locks. Smart advised you place the car in reverse then remove the key if I remember correctly. I had 3 of them but were all towed on a trailer.
I am so sorry to hear about the OPs' car, not really more I can say other than I hope they can replace it.
 

Minxy

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I am so sorry to hear about the OPs' car, not really more I can say other than I hope they can replace it.
... I think they might have by now seeing as that was in 2009 ... :D
 

PeteH

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... I think they might have by now seeing as that was in 2009 ... :D

Beat me to it.:whistle:. For the Poster who rebooted it to ask about "A" framing. I like it, I am in favour of it, it is SAFE, a much better record than trailer wrecks. In the USA where they do not have the "European" attitude of inbred Bureaucratic stupidity. Frames outnumber trailers by a considerable Margin. HOWEVER, if you "A" frame in Europe, you will inevitably encounter issues with the "Plod" at some point. So despite my (y) For the practice, I would not recommend it outside of the UK itself. IMV Very Very sad. But at least soon we may not be contributing (our) taxes to the "system" which perpetuates such Stupidity.

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The Dotties

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I can’t tow my smartie:(
Bought the 453 with the twin clutch gearbox, brilliant car but untowable.
Now the proud owner of a trailer:):).
 
OP
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As the op I can report we did get the smart fixed and have had two toads since, neither Smarts as we have two dogs and only one back then.
Currently have a Suzuki Alto on an A frame but considering getting a trailer for next long European trip as we are thinking of spending quite a lot of time in Spain.
 
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Beat me to it.:whistle:. For the Poster who rebooted it to ask about "A" framing. I like it, I am in favour of it, it is SAFE, a much better record than trailer wrecks. In the USA where they do not have the "European" attitude of inbred Bureaucratic stupidity. Frames outnumber trailers by a considerable Margin. HOWEVER, if you "A" frame in Europe, you will inevitably encounter issues with the "Plod" at some point. So despite my (y) For the practice, I would not recommend it outside of the UK itself. IMV Very Very sad. But at least soon we may not be contributing (our) taxes to the "system" which perpetuates such Stupidity.
We can, however, continue paying taxes in this country which allows A frames because they slip through unnoticed as 'trailers' which they aren't and never can be. Whenever one takes a detailed look at legislation surrounding any marginal activity it needs to be done with an open mind and some knowledge of the history of such legislation. In some EU countries they have tried to legislate (perhaps sensibly) against ad hoc methods of moving vehicles from one place to another. So no bits of rope of varying lengths, home-made fixed bars, etc. A frames are simply caught up in the legislation and, like most things related to motorhome use, aren't seen as a priority. In this country a Civil Servant has decided they can be trailers despite the fact that in some areas most A frames aren't compliant with trailer legislation (reversing without leaving the towing vehicle, reversing in general, braking system working as designed). You can be reasonably certain that given the small user base if anyone at Government level was forced to look at A frame use in this country with a view to it being made compliant with existing legislation it would be made illegal overnight. No one would spend the time drafting the required legislation. So it continues to, basically, slip under the radar.

But let's not miss an opportunity to knock EU legislators.

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