Diesel heating retro fitting in coachbuilt - anyone done it? (1 Viewer)

[bridgedino]

Good old Gadget John rears his ugly head again. There is no way I would trust anything that guy does.
I take it you have not seen his video on his lithium battery install which was discuss on a Funster thread a year or so ago, that proved that he can be clueless.

Anyway I have just watched his heater install video and I'll give you my views on some areas of his install.

Luckily his kit came with the correct fuel line and that fuel line has to be used all the way not just the last part as he suggested unless you use a fuel line of the same internal bore and is not a rubber or flexible type like silicon tubing as these will kill the pulse of the fuel dosing pump due to the fuel line expanding and contacting and taking the energy out of the pump pulse. He does not seem to understand that the fuel dosing pump delivers ,022ml of fuel per stroke and the pump rate ( 1 stoke @ 1 Hz = 1 stroke per second ) is controlling the amount of fuel delivered to burn so adjusting the heat delivered. He has also fitted the fuel filter the wrong way around for the flow of fuel.

The mounting plate supplied for the heater should be chucked away if your install through the floor of a MH as the are designed to be used on a thin metal skin of a van or lorry.
For a thicker insulated floor as in a MH you should use a metal turret as the photos below and the hole drilled through for it should allow for a 3mm air gap around the ring section that goes through the floor to stop heat transfer from the hot exhaust which is getting towards the wrong side of 500 C as it exits the heater, and does he not realise that aluminium foil is an excellent conductor of heat.

View attachment 458313 View attachment 458337

Moving on to his fuel tank. I do not see it as a good idea of hanging 15Kg on a plastic door skin which are usually about 2mm thick. I wonder how long that stays attached after a few bumpy roads and speed humps, and as for his leave the cap loose, did he miss the vent hole and non return valve in the cap. I have had 5 or these Chinese diesel heaters come through my hands and all have have a vented cap. Here's a cap cap from a tank that I did not use for an install.

View attachment 458364 View attachment 458366

To prime the fuel for the first firing of the heater, you put it into priming mode which stops automatically after a set period. If the fuel has not reached the heater then you prime again. You watch the fuel as it makes it's way along the fuel line and when it reaches the heater you stop the priming. If you over prime you can flood the heater which will then not start and you have a problem that need not happen.

The gauge and length of the power cable supplied with these Chinese heaters can cause problems with the voltage drop on startup and shut down when the glowplug pulls about 10 amps and was graphically illustrated when he showed the voltage dropping to 11 volt at the heater. If his hab battery was giving a health 12.5 - 12.8 volt, than a hab battery voltage any lower will cause a shutdown on startup as the glowplug does no reach a heat to ignite the fuel. This potential problem can be overcome by replacing the original power cable with 4mm2 on shorter runs or 6mm2 on longer runs.

I noted that he is utilising the existing Truma ducting. The Chinese heater ducting has an internal diameter of 75mm where as the Truma ducting has an external diameter of 65mm meaning the it's internal diameter is nearer 60mm. Using the Truma ducting greatly reduces the cross sectional area from that of the 75mm ducting which is likely to increase the back pressure of the airflow and slowing down the air speed down the ducting. The heater relies on a certain volume of cool air being drew across the combustion chamber fins to extract the heat you want from the heater at also to maintain the correct temperature of the combustion chamber casing and reducing the volume of airflow can and will cause overheating of the heater which is likely to cause the heater to shutdown if used at higher heater setting. Adding insulation as he has done only concentrates more heat in the area of the combustion chamber. I don't know the lengths of his Truma ducting in his van, but the recommended overall maximum length of the 75mm to be used is 3 metres, so this will be greatly reduced by going down to 60mm.

Or you could just look at it as someone have a go at a diy install. Exactly what the op was asking. Every van is different as will be every install

 

[Two on Tour]

Or you could just look at it as someone have a go at a diy install. Exactly what the op was asking. Every van is different as will be every install

Oh, so that makes it okay to copy his mistakes then does it ?

 

[MisterB]

easy guys, EVERYONE is trying to help in their own way .............

i am happy to see how NOT to do it, aswell as how it should be done - i quite like gadget john and his videos, but i am not a disciple of him or anyone else and i always do a lot of research before doing anything (i am currently looking at fitting an air source heat pump with a mix of radiators and underfloor heating !)

i find you tube a great source of information on all sorts of things but just because i can see how someone has done something it doesnt mean it is the best or only way.


so, i appreciate all the comments on here, even if i follow the suggestions or ignore them completely, i can make a judgement based on (sometimes other peoples) knowledge or experience, rather then acting as my own sacrificial guinea pig !

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[Treeeev]

- is it the fan that is noisy or the clicking of the pump or is it the burner itself? ive seen it described as a similar (though obv quieter) to jet engine, so i assume its the burner?

- i have also seen some fit an additional silencer to the exhaust, though i am not sure of the noise reduction it produces?

- i have also seen (on you tube) that someone fitted some sort of damper to the pump, which reduced the 'tick, tick' noise, though again not considerably (although a reduction in 5 decibals is quite large in hearing protection measurements) - does anyone have any alternatives?

- i have read, in several places, that even the top notch espacher heaters emit roughly the same noise levels - can anyone confirm?

Hi MisterB

I fitted an ebaerspacher diesel heater to my previous van, a self built VW T4.
To answer some of your questions, when the heater starts up, it does sound a bit like a jet engine. I think this is a combination of the fan and the burner, however this doesn’t last long and it soon modulates down, reducing the fan speed as it warms up inside the van. The pump should be mounted to something flexible to reduce transmission noise, but it still gives a faint click every few seconds once it is running, which I never found it that intrusive. I also fitted both inlet and exhaust silencers which helped to reduce the running noise

Cheers

Trevor

 

[Two on Tour]

- is it the fan that is noisy or the clicking of the pump or is it the burner itself? ive seen it described as a similar (though obv quieter) to jet engine, so i assume its the burner?

On our installation, in our MH our Chinese diesel heater is very quiet unless you are running it at full bore and even then it is quieter than the OEM Whale blown air system fitted in ours.

Externally the main culprits for noise are the combustion which roars at higher setting and at startup which goes hand in hand with noise from air being drawn in through the air intake for the combustion.

I have reduced the noise from both of these by fitting a dirt bike air filter to the combustion air intake ducting and a combination of sound/heat insulation and Armaflex on the ducting from the heater as in the photo on post #6

The pump ticking was fairly loud and annoying when first fitted, but this was greatly reduced by hanging the pump from cable ties which are around a layer of foam insulation and I put soft type plastic tubing over the fuel line wherever the fuel line was touching a surface or was fixed to which eliminated nearly all the noise from that. You can for a price buy a quiet fuel pump.

- i have also seen some fit an additional silencer to the exhaust, though i am not sure of the noise reduction it produces?

I have fitted two silencers as in my photo in post #29. It slightly reduces the noise but only by a few dB. Wrapping the exhaust also helped to reduce the noise level.

 

[King Warwick]

Check out John and Mandy . On YouTube this week fitted one

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[buntyb]

Check out John and Mandy . On YouTube this week fitted one

gee, bit risky mentioning that around here

 

[Two on Tour]

Check out John and Mandy . On YouTube this week fitted one

I heard he got another six gun and Stetson for Christmas to add to his collection.

 

[Henry Walpole]

I had an Eberspacher Airtronic S2 D2L fitted by PF Jones of Stoke last year. Very professional job and great service from Gary and the team there. I put a review on here at the time:

PF Jones - Reviews

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[Lemut]

Mate fitted a Chinese one for about £100. He swears by it and insists it’s the best thing since sliced bread.

They are very good but I have only used the posh eberspacher ones at work.

Good little heaters but they normally have their own fuel tank and fuel pump as they are a bit (just a bit) fussy of fuel pressure.

 

[MisterB]

Thanks everyone, i am about to order one for the static van in France, i can use that as 'test' for fitting one in the motorhome. we usually use a paraffin heater (zibro) type so filling up tank/reservoir isnt unusual for us - as is having to buy 20l containers of fuel, so again, its nothing we are not used to and it should be reasonably simple to fit the 'hot air' side to feed into the van and keep the main unit outside (inc the fuel tank, which i can locate in an easy to get to location}

i will have to fit a 12v supply, but that shouldnt really be an issue ......

 

[Ivory55]

Good little heaters but they normally have their own fuel tank and fuel pump as they are a bit (just a bit) fussy of fuel pressure.

A separate tank is handy if you have access to a bit of red.

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[leann53]

from Liverpool
Ask away

Domestic circuits are not wired like that in the UK, or indeed in Europe. I believe some circuits in the US are, giving 120V for some appliances and 240V for higher power appliances. Some people, including me, have come across this rarely on Spanish campsites. But almost always, the neutral is at or close to ground, and the live goes +240V/-240V.

 

[leann53]

Thanks everyone, i am about to order one for the static van in France, i can use that as 'test' for fitting one in the motorhome. we usually use a paraffin heater (zibro) type so filling up tank/reservoir isnt unusual for us - as is having to buy 20l containers of fuel, so again, its nothing we are not used to and it should be reasonably simple to fit the 'hot air' side to feed into the van and keep the main unit outside (inc the fuel tank, which i can locate in an easy to get to location}

i will have to fit a 12v supply, but that shouldnt really be an issue ......

You maybe to source a nearly new one plus pipes wireing from a commercial truck breakers

 

[leann53]

Yeah i don't want a minibus though as theres too many windows ....im building one thats pretty stealth to be honest.

But most ive seen in germany are one owner FSH etc and thats what ill be trying to get if i can ....i missed a cracker last week as didn't want to buy it unseen but i think the next one that comes up suiting my requirements ill just buy it

Try a commercial truck breakers you may get a nearly new one with pipe,s and wireing

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[Ivory55]

Try a commercial truck breakers you may get a nearly new one with pipe,s and wireing

Think you’re find truck ones are 24v not 12v like vans

 

[Lenny HB]

Good old Gadget John rears his ugly head again. There is no way I would trust anything that guy does.
I take it you have not seen his video on his lithium battery install which was discuss on a Funster thread a year or so ago, that proved that he can be clueless.

Totally agree.

 

[Stuart]

Our last van, Chausson Welcome, had the Webasto. We never really got on with it. Personal opinion of course as I see lots of people are quite happy with them. The pump sounded just like someone bouncing a tennis ball against the side of the van, in fact when we first got it I went outside looking for the culprit. The exhaust was noisy on quiet evenings and we worried that it would annoy neighbours. It took forever to heat enough water for a shower and the space heater never really warmed the van properly. Maybe it would have been more successful in a smaller van. Parts are eye wateringly expensive and when it broke down it cost over £500 to have repaired.

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[Sundowners]

Parts are eye wateringly expensive and when it broke down it cost over £500 to have repaired.

That is another good reason to have the chinese one!!!
Can buy 5 for that!! Although I dont know how much the air/water ones cost------ I prefer one system one job!!

 

[Plumb]

We have had to chausson motorhomes with the webasto heaters and the heat output was incredibly quick and effecient without to much noise inside at all .it also distributed the heat evenly around the vehicle including the garage it was great.

We didn't experience any fumes at start up or shut down ,that sounds like incomplete combustion which suggests the burner settings were incorrect ?

Now in our current motorhome we have a truma combi which is nowhere near as quick or as effecient as the webasto on cold days !

 

[MisterB]

this is the one i am thinking of for our static caravan

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=313388326410

basically i can just 'port' the outlets via ducting to come out under the furniture in the caravan - the unit can be placed under or in close proximity and i can extend the cable for the control panel and place that in the van. i can refuel outside and as it would all be outside, the noise would be reduced.

if this works then i see no reason why i couldnt adopt the same method for the motorhome, have the unit stowed away (or not even carried) when not needed and then place under or in close proximity to the motorhome when i need to use it.

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[Jaws]

this is the one i am thinking of for our static caravan

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=313388326410

basically i can just 'port' the outlets via ducting to come out under the furniture in the caravan - the unit can be placed under or in close proximity and i can extend the cable for the control panel and place that in the van. i can refuel outside and as it would all be outside, the noise would be reduced.

if this works then i see no reason why i couldnt adopt the same method for the motorhome, have the unit stowed away (or not even carried) when not needed and then place under or in close proximity to the motorhome when i need to use it.

Mate has one of those in his workshop.. Works very well indeed and like me he runs it using heating oil... The only thing he moans about is the small tank... only 5 litres..

 

[MisterB]

Mate has one of those in his workshop.. Works very well indeed and like me he runs it using heating oil... The only thing he moans about is the small tank... only 5 litres..

Thanks, i would assume i could always add a piggy back tank if that proves to be a nuisance, or even change it to one of the types that isnt fully contained and then add a larger fuel tank to that and then 'move' the all in one for use in the motorhome

 

[MisterB]

He is no longer sending the Afterburner units to the UK because he is now required to collect VAT on behalf of the UK government and do the reams of paperwork that goes with it and understandably as he was building and selling the units as a hobby, he is not prepared to take on the roll of a tax collector.
The way around it if you want one is if you know someone that is in i.e. France, Germany or Spain etc, then have them buy one and then for you to pick it up while on your hols or have them post it onto you when they receive it.
There is always more than one way of skinning a cat as they say.

if i decide to get one, i can have it delivered to our static in France. the parcel postie delivers bits and bobs direct to my van quite often !! they used to deliver to the reception, but for some reason he now delivers direct to my van, which is perfect !!

(i wonder if that means i have a valid postal address in France or he is just being helpful?)

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[Northernraider]

Check out John and Mandy . On YouTube this week fitted one

I've watched( or should i say suffered) two of his videos his pointless mad dash home from Portugal and his diesel heater install ....thats a cowboy if ever i saw one.

That heater install is the worst ive seen on youtube and thats saying something

I pity whoever buys that van when hes finished with it.

 

[Northernraider]

Try a commercial truck breakers you may get a nearly new one with pipe,s and wireing

Im not sure that was meant for me or not ...but its a van im looking for not the heater

 

[MisterB]

I've watched( or should i say suffered) two of his videos his pointless mad dash home from Portugal and his diesel heater install ....thats a cowboy if ever i saw one.

That heater install is the worst ive seen on youtube and thats saying something

I pity whoever buys that van when hes finished with it.

it might be a very good price ....... i would be even more concerned about buying the Travel Trolls MH, what an absolute mess that will be when they have finally destroyed it !!

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[MisterB]

i have just pressed the button on ebay diesel heater !!! there are so many out there that its difficult to work out which is the best.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=154235500402

i bought this on the basis that they have good feedback from others who have bought the same item, it has a 'pick up' included for tapping into the vehicle fuel tank (although i wont be using this on the moho, but on the static), i will however disregard the fuel tank it comes with and just connect up to a 20 litre container so filling up becomes less regular. it also has a split outlet duct so i can feed hot air into the van in two places. i also like the video showing installation instructions.

i am pretty certain there is no massive difference between any of them to be honest but this one seems flexible enough for me to have a play with it under several different configurations before i take it over the the static in France.

 

[Two on Tour]

If you use a 20 litre container as a fuel tank, then drill a hole in the cap, cut the "pickup tube" to length and push it the hole in your cap into the fuel, easy peasy.

 

[Northernraider]

i have just pressed the button on ebay diesel heater !!! there are so many out there that its difficult to work out which is the best.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=154235500402

i bought this on the basis that they have good feedback from others who have bought the same item, it has a 'pick up' included for tapping into the vehicle fuel tank (although i wont be using this on the moho, but on the static), i will however disregard the fuel tank it comes with and just connect up to a 20 litre container so filling up becomes less regular. it also has a split outlet duct so i can feed hot air into the van in two places. i also like the video showing installation instructions.

i am pretty certain there is no massive difference between any of them to be honest but this one seems flexible enough for me to have a play with it under several different configurations before i take it over the the static in France.

Just make sure to check it as soon as it arrives as ive watched a few install video's recently that have all received the item with the lcd control box missing. ...and have had to pay extra for it

Thats the same kit i planned to fit also

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