Diamond brite treatment and GRP

tkk

tkk

Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Posts
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Location
notts
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31,911
MH
Frankia i640
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newbie but learning fast
Hi all,
Just awaiting new MH delivery and been offered Diamondbrite treatment for a GRP skin MH. Have some reservations about its benefits. Any thoughts. It is not cheap!
BW
Tk
 
Had something similar put on one of our cars can,t really tell that much difference. Next time I might do it myself with a polymer sealant. Did turn down all the other extras (GAP insurance etc) I think they get good comission on the extras.
 
I have read a multitude of reports on these coatings and come to the conclusion that they are not forever and indeed require replacement/topping up after 3-5 years. Also if the coating gets damaged or worn away its a pain to spot replace. So on balance I have decided to remain with @Charlie 's advice and continue with trusted Colinite 476 on my new Morelo when it comes off the production line in April. However there are many that swear by these coatings and I would suggest you continue with more examination on the internet.
 
The paint sealants are OK and you can do it yourself for under 20 quid, dealer prices are a total rip off.
I agree with Michael just use Colinite 476s, easy to apply and gives good protection it's all I use on my van.
 
I wonder how many of the treatments cover all of the roof to a good standard?

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I wouldnt want a 'paint protection system' put on my GRP surfaces!

However, for the right price, I would have GTechniq C1 Crystal Lacquer applied to a brand new GRP skinned motorhome, but expect the cost of dealer application would be off the scale.
 
I had the treatment done to a new car but never again! It really stopped beading after a few months and ended up waxing the car myself.

Don't trust the promise that they will re-apply if the stuff wears off. I wished I took a photograph in the rain the first week I had it done since an inspection said it still good six months later . I had nothing to compare when first applied and 6 months afterwards.

They also treated the seat fabric but that was a complete waste of money as well.
 
Thanks all, Confirms my initial feeling. Good to know about the alternatives
Tk

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nicholsong said:
Why buy a GRP MH when there are double aluminium sandwich MHs available with powder-coated surfaces?
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I would have one Geoff simply because it doesn’t dent when people bump it or trees attack the sides. The GRP is bonded same as alloy.

Martin
 
I bought some Diamond Brite, five pairs of bottles for less than £20 and is enough to do about four motor homes. I spent the day cleaning polishing then removing all polish residue with me the, then did the two part treatment on the whole van including the roof.
Absolutely FANTASTIC, that was a year ago and I have not washed the van since and just a shower of rain and it is clean and it still beads and just runs off taking the small amount of grime that has adhered with it. Despite what @Charlie says, and I value his opinion greatly, for me it is a fantastic product but would not pay the rip off prices the dealer charges. As it is so cheap and easy to do it yourself. When I get time on my return from Portugal I will repeat the process as I have plenty of product left.
Just my opinion for what it is worth from my experience.
Steve
 
OldAgeTravellers said:
I bought some Diamond Brite, five pairs of bottles for less than £20 and is enough to do about four motor homes. I spent the day cleaning polishing then removing all polish residue with me the, then did the two part treatment on the whole van including the roof.
Absolutely FANTASTIC, that was a year ago and I have not washed the van since and just a shower of rain and it is clean and it still beads and just runs off taking the small amount of grime that has adhered with it. Despite what @Charlie says, and I value his opinion greatly, for me it is a fantastic product but would not pay the rip off prices the dealer charges. As it is so cheap and easy to do it yourself. When I get time on my return from Portugal I will repeat the process as I have plenty of product left.
Just my opinion for what it is worth from my experience.
Steve
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That's a great price, is it available to everyone at that?
 
funflair said:
I would have one Geoff simply because it doesn’t dent when people bump it or trees attack the sides. The GRP is bonded same as alloy.

Martin
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Of course that depends on the quality of the GRP as well though Martin. It can have problems of its own and converters often source the cheapest not the best.

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Thanks all,
Part of my reservation was that it might not not be useful at all. I have a GRP kayak and the skin is Gelcoat on fibreglass strand. Usual method of finishing repairs or touch up is to polish with burnishing paste. I comes to a shine and blends with the surround. There isn’t any “paint” as such just the colour of the Gelcoat. Is the GRP layup on MOHOs similar?
Tk
 
OldAgeTravellers said:
I bought some Diamond Brite, five pairs of bottles for less than £20 and is enough to do about four motor homes. I spent the day cleaning polishing then removing all polish residue with me the, then did the two part treatment on the whole van including the roof.
Absolutely FANTASTIC, that was a year ago and I have not washed the van since and just a shower of rain and it is clean and it still beads and just runs off taking the small amount of grime that has adhered with it. Despite what @Charlie says, and I value his opinion greatly, for me it is a fantastic product but would not pay the rip off prices the dealer charges. As it is so cheap and easy to do it yourself. When I get time on my return from Portugal I will repeat the process as I have plenty of product left.
Just my opinion for what it is worth from my experience.
Steve
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The actual product is good, however it is the preparation that counts, you did the preparation well and got good results, a dealer will chuck a bucket of water over, rub down with a gritty sponge/brush then use a dirty chamois to dry, applying anything over that will never look good or last.
 
Charlie said:
This topic comes up very often.

Firstly it’s a dealer killing. They charge like a wounded rhino for a product that simply does not work. It really doesent.
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I honestly think you are wrong there sorry. We had it done at a cost of £500. Our truck was at the time a Starblazer (One with the large garage) We never had any issues with black streaks or problems with paint fade at all. It was the Diamond Brite product put on for us at the time by a valeting company we chose.
Personally.
I /we had no problems and would always have it done . You only have to look at some trucks that are coated and those that are not to see the difference. Ask the owner how often they clean it ? I betting here but if it was anything like ours... a bucket of hot water and a wipe down with a silicon blade and it was as new! Those that dont bother having it done..have to spend a bit more time polishing ....and cleaning off.
It comes down to the individual. I personally like mine looking smart without the hassle of doing too much back breaking work. If it means £500 notes...its worth it in the end.

Kev
 
I got it in 2017 £17.99 for five pairs of bottles. Quite a bit more expensive now but nowhere like the £500 stated above to have it done for you. As said above, careful preparation reaps rewards. I think what it does is seals the tiny porosity of the paint or gel finish so the dirt has nothing to adhere to. I would thoroughly recommend it if you are prepared to do the job properly. With diligent searching I am sure it can be found cheaper than this guy is charging. The makers are Jewelultra.com. Not that a good waxing with Colonite may well do the same but doesn't last as long in my experience. Perhaps waxing after the preparation but that may spoil the effect. If you can get it for what I paid it is certainly worth a punt.
Steve
 
Kev and Carolyn said:
I honestly think you are wrong there sorry. We had it done at a cost of £500. Our truck was at the time a Starblazer (One with the large garage) We never had any issues with black streaks or problems with paint fade at all. It was the Diamond Brite product put on for us at the time by a valeting company we chose.
Personally.
I /we had no problems and would always have it done . You only have to look at some trucks that are coated and those that are not to see the difference. Ask the owner how often they clean it ? I betting here but if it was anything like ours... a bucket of hot water and a wipe down with a silicon blade and it was as new! Those that dont bother having it done..have to spend a bit more time polishing ....and cleaning off.
It comes down to the individual. I personally like mine looking smart without the hassle of doing too much back breaking work. If it means £500 notes...its worth it in the end.

Kev
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Having spent over 15 years as a technical author for one of the biggest product suppliers on the planet and seen extensive product testing I’m sticking to my guns.

Sorry but if you research the internet you will find the only positives on these products is either from those who sell them and those who have shelled out for them.

A major Audi dealers in Worcester used to charge over £400 for paint treatments. I could buy the product they used for £4.95....

A clean smooth well prepared surface will sheet water and grime. Adding these wonder products won’t improve or hinder that.

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tkk said:
Thanks all,
Part of my reservation was that it might not not be useful at all. I have a GRP kayak and the skin is Gelcoat on fibreglass strand. Usual method of finishing repairs or touch up is to polish with burnishing paste. I comes to a shine and blends with the surround. There isn’t any “paint” as such just the colour of the Gelcoat. Is the GRP layup on MOHOs similar?
Tk
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The production methods for the moulded front panel of a motorhome will be very similar to your kayak but the side panels of for example a Rapido or Frankia are quite different as is the fibreglass roof of a Morelo or N+B.

Martin
 
Hi Martin,
Does that mean there is absent or thinner Gelcoat?
Thanks
Tk
 
tkk said:
Hi Martin,
Does that mean there is absent or thinner Gelcoat?
Thanks
Tk
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If there is a traditional gel coat it is certainly thinner, some are even painted but I don't know which is which I just know it's different;)

Martin
 
Gelcoats and other finishes...

The big problem we have here is that there are just so many finishes on these vehicles. Hundreds at least. This is why I Always advise extreme care and doing a small test area preferably out of sight.

There is no such thing as a typical gel coat. By that I mean it’s thickness which is the relevant thing here. Even vehicles from the same manufacturer will have varying thickness which occur in the laying up of the products .

With cars the paint thicknesses are exactly the same for each manufacturer as they are carefully metered and computer controlled.

Also Gel in the laying stage responds greatly to many thing. The ratio of hardener to resin. Temperature. Drying rates. Even in controlled situations low number production items like we have here will differ in a very big way.

This is why No assumptions can be relied on. You really MUST check a small area ..

Add to this the multiples of other finishes and surfaces and it gets very hard indeed .

So test using light cut polishes and use a standard Safe wax. By all means use other products but remember mistakes are very hard to rectify and bloody expensive.
 
At Howards Motorhomes we offer Williams Ceramic Coat.
Its not a waxed based product which does have a shelf life. Williams is amazing but it has to be applied correctly and the vehicle has to be spotlessly clean as it will "Harden" on the GRP and what ever dirt is on the van will stay on the van!
https://www.autoprotect.co.uk/ceramic-coat

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Charlie said:
A clean smooth well prepared surface will sheet water and grime. Adding these wonder products won’t improve or hinder that.
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Absolutely spot on there Charlie

funflair said:
If there is a traditional gel coat it is certainly thinner, some are even painted but I don't know which is which I just know it's different;)

Martin
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99% of exterior GRP panels have a Gelcoat, in fact I doubt that any GRP panels on a motorhome don't have Gelcoat, even if painted. I can only think of one or two instances when Gel-free GRP makes sense in exterior use

Charlie said:
Gelcoats and other finishes...

The big problem we have here is that there are just so many finishes on these vehicles. Hundreds at least. This is why I Always advise extreme care and doing a small test area preferably out of sight.
Click to expand...

I agree about a test area, but unpainted Gelcoat is unpainted Gelcoat and in laymans terms, there is little difference between Polyester and Vinylester based products.

Charlie said:
There is no such thing as a typical gel coat. By that I mean it’s thickness which is the relevant thing here. Even vehicles from the same manufacturer will have varying thickness which occur in the laying up of the products .

With cars the paint thicknesses are exactly the same for each manufacturer as they are carefully metered and computer controlled.

Also Gel in the laying stage responds greatly to many thing. The ratio of hardener to resin. Temperature. Drying rates. Even in controlled situations low number production items like we have here will differ in a very big way.
Click to expand...

There is a minimum thickness required for Gelcoat or else it pickles during the layup, I have yet to come across a Gelcoat too thin to polish, although the shape may make it challenging in the same way shapes cause challeges with painted surfaces.

At the speed GRP sheets for sandwich panels are laid and rolled, I can guarentee that the humidity, the mix and the temperature are controlled to the 'enth degree.

Hand laid front and rear hoods will differ slightly but once fitted and then exposed to UV light, I would be gobsmacked if the Gelcoat isn't fully cured in less than a day.


Simon Howards Motorhomes said:
At Howards Motorhomes we offer Williams Ceramic Coat.
Its not a waxed based product which does have a shelf life. Williams is amazing but it has to be applied correctly and the vehicle has to be spotlessly clean as it will "Harden" on the GRP and what ever dirt is on the van will stay on the van!
https://www.autoprotect.co.uk/ceramic-coat
Click to expand...

I have followed your link and then followed that on again to another website and in both cases it clearly indicates this is just a sealer. Do you have some information on the level of UV protection this product offers as in my experience sealers provide beading enhancement, but in doing so also cause white GRP to yellow very quickly in direct UV.
 
I'm very suspicious of products only available to the trade. I suspect its like wine labelled just for restaurants to sell overpriced for what it is and only done to avoid price comparisons
 
cornish boy said:
99% of exterior GRP panels have a Gelcoat, in fact I doubt that any GRP panels on a motorhome don't have Gelcoat, even if painted. I can only think of one or two instances when Gel-free GRP makes sense in exterior use
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I think that some panels are possibly a thermoplastic rather than traditional thermoset polyester, I am thinking here about the roof skins on the N+B vans and also the floor panels we saw at Phoenix, OK neither of these really need polishing, at Vario-Mobil they were using a glass fibre sheet from a roll that definitely didn't have a gelcoat on but all their vans are painted, I think some side panels look like they have quite thin gelcoat as you can see the fibre printing through.

When we manufactured parts in Epoxy/carbon they were without gelcoat as it is just excess weight for no structural gain but these part were high performance for cars and bikes.

Martin
 
cornish boy said:
Absolutely spot on there Charlie



99% of exterior GRP panels have a Gelcoat, in fact I doubt that any GRP panels on a motorhome don't have Gelcoat, even if painted. I can only think of one or two instances when Gel-free GRP makes sense in exterior use



I agree about a test area, but unpainted Gelcoat is unpainted Gelcoat and in laymans terms, there is little difference between Polyester and Vinylester based products.



There is a minimum thickness required for Gelcoat or else it pickles during the layup, I have yet to come across a Gelcoat too thin to polish, although the shape may make it challenging in the same way shapes cause challeges with painted surfaces.

At the speed GRP sheets for sandwich panels are laid and rolled, I can guarentee that the humidity, the mix and the temperature are controlled to the 'enth degree.

Hand laid front and rear hoods will differ slightly but once fitted and then exposed to UV light, I would be gobsmacked if the Gelcoat isn't fully cured in less than a day.




I have followed your link and then followed that on again to another website and in both cases it clearly indicates this is just a sealer. Do you have some information on the level of UV protection this product offers as in my experience sealers provide beading enhancement, but in doing so also cause white GRP to yellow very quickly in direct UV.
Click to expand...

My trade and business has been Roofing for 47 years 38 of which I ran my own business .

We did hundreds of fibreglass roofs over many years so I completely understand the properties and values of Gel coats resins hardners and colours.

Gel coat especially late stuff can be very thin... That is why I advise caution. Otherwise people with little or no knowledge could come unstuck.

I will say though my experience of polishing Gel coats is a little limited. Jet Skis and boats mostly. The Jetskis were Yamaha which used a gel along with a very complex laminate and the gel was really very thin.

I use a DeFelsko Positector PTG which as you will know allows the measurement of individual layers on all surfaces including laminates and steel and aluminium body panels. A very expensive tool but when seriously into the Detailing and Concourse sceen something I really felt I needed to have.

Again I feel you will know the soft paint on cars like Aston’s and RRs by its inherrant nature is very soft.
 
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I looked at a Fleurette A class motorhome, advertised as all polyester whatever that means, the important thing is that there was plenty of cracks in it.

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