Design flaws and health and safety (1 Viewer)

[smiffy64]

There is one thing that has bothered me almost since I bought my Dethleffs in February and it is the silly positioning of a 230V plug right next the kitchen sink. Look at the picture below to see what I mean.
The tap can even be swivelled enough so that it would be pouring water over any plug that was in the socket.

If this was a house it would surely be condemned as a serious safety hazard.

So that had me thinking, are motorhomes exempt from the standard and common sense electricity regulations?

I assume not, but surely this design is very questionable and just downright stupid.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

There is one thing that has bothered me almost since I bought my Dethleffs in February and it is the silly positioning of a 230V plug right next the kitchen sink. Look at the picture below to see what I mean.
The tap can even be swivelled enough so that it would be pouring water over any plug that was in the socket.

If this was a house it would surely be condemned as a serious safety hazard.

So that had me thinking, are motorhomes exempt from the standard and common sense electricity regulations?

I assume not, but surely this design is very questionable and just downright stupid.

No actually it wouldn't.

It could be considered bad practice unless there was really nowhere else it could go but there nothing in BS7671 to prevent it. There is suggested guidance but nothing more.

Your second question: BS7671 does not apply to motorhomes and caravans.

 

[smiffy64]

So Motorhome designers have 'free reign' to do what the hell they want even if it contradicts common sense!?
Seems a bit 'off' to me.

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[Deleted member 29692]

So Motorhome designers have 'free reign' to do what the hell they want even if it contradicts common sense!?
Seems a bit 'off' to me.

Like I said there would be nothing wrong with it in a house either if the kitchen area was similarly sized. I've come across similar things in houses many many times. There's absolutely nothing you can say about it on a report unless there is somewhere obvious further away where it could have been sited. Even then you can only make a comment, it's not a fault as such.



Actually I was wrong in my first post

I've just checked and caravans are a special installation in BS7671 these days. There's still nothing wrong with the socket in that location though

 

[smiffy64]

We have already decided to not use the socket anyway for this reason. I will also try to get a socket blanking plate, so no big deal.
Still slightly annoying though

Thank you for your informative reply NickNic.

 

[dna]

How about using these (at least as a temporary measure), or painting one black to blend in?

Amazon product ASIN
There are plenty available in baby shopts / online

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[Deleted member 29692]

I will also try to get a socket blanking plate, so no big deal.

There you go if you're that worried about it:

http://leisurelines.net/berker-grey-single-blanking-plate-3560-p.asp

Personally I wouldn't be. There's one in a similar place in our van that gets used all the time

 

[jockaneezer]

I wouldn't worry about it, you're on four rubber tyres
Actually, the one in our van is above the sink drainer, the steam from the kettle hits it full on

 

[Lenny HB]

You have an RCD in the van and if on a site the EHU bollard with have one as well don't see the problem, I expect you have one near the sink in the washroom as well. Every van we have had has been similar current van has one on the back wall above the sink and another just below the worktop right below the sink doesn't worry me.

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[Stewart J]

Interestingly when we took delivery of our new van (Hymer DL) in January the dealer had disconnected the 230 vac socket in the bathroom cupboard when queried I was told it was against UK regs, they posted a small sign below it stating it was disconnected. The one above the sink was left live but they had stuck another little label below it stating sink cover had to be in place before use.

 

[smiffy64]

I do not want to 'labour the point' or get too off topic, but there seems to be a contradiction in the regulations and the accepted way of doing things.
We are not allowed to put plugs in bathrooms in a house for the same reason I started this post.
See here: http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...tb9dSPn4Bkq-kvJIXVt5NvJat0MEuyZ6O0aAuY-8P8HAQ

The same danger applies does it not. I am not too worried about it, it just seems a bit contradictory and weird.

 

[tonyidle]

I do not want to 'labour the point' or get too off topic, but there seems to be a contradiction in the regulations and the accepted way of doing things.
We are not allowed to put plugs in bathrooms in a house for the same reason I started this post.
See here: http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...tb9dSPn4Bkq-kvJIXVt5NvJat0MEuyZ6O0aAuY-8P8HAQ

The same danger applies does it not. I am not too worried about it, it just seems a bit contradictory and weird.

Just celebrate the fact that motorhome designers assume their customers have some common sense. There's no danger caused by a socket near the sink unless the user decides to do something dangerous with it.

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[smiffy64]

There's no danger caused by a socket near the sink unless the user decides to do something dangerous with it.

Like forget that the tap spout has been turned toward the plug or a stray splash from doing the dishes you mean

 

[Badknee]

We use the 230 socket in our bathroom (Hobby 700) every day for hairdryer, well not me obviously

Signed 'bald eagle badknee'

 

[Podney]

And you'd have to make sure one of those little people(I think they call them children) doesn't fiddle with it while your back's turned.

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[gus-lopez]

Interestingly when we took delivery of our new van (Hymer DL) in January the dealer had disconnected the 230 vac socket in the bathroom cupboard when queried I was told it was against UK regs, they posted a small sign below it stating it was disconnected. The one above the sink was left live but they had stuck another little label below it stating sink cover had to be in place before use.

What regulations? Caravan regulations ? I wouldn't be happy finding them disconnecting stuff.

I do not want to 'labour the point' or get too off topic, but there seems to be a contradiction in the regulations and the accepted way of doing things.
We are not allowed to put plugs in bathrooms in a house for the same reason I started this post.
See here: http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...tb9dSPn4Bkq-kvJIXVt5NvJat0MEuyZ6O0aAuY-8P8HAQ

The same danger applies does it not. I am not too worried about it, it just seems a bit contradictory and weird.

Your link does not state that , just that if one is fitted it must be 3m from the bath or shower.
If you go to"kitchen" on the same link it only says that socket must be 30cm from the sink

 

[maxi77]

The continentals allow much more application of common sense. It is normal to have standard mains sockets in bathrooms, in nearly 60 years of visiting I have only rarely seen an isolated shaver socket. Be sensible and it will be OK

 

[jezport]

Berker do flip covers

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[smiffy64]

If you go to"kitchen" on the same link it only says that socket must be 30cm from the sink

I was only making the point that electricity and water do not mix wherever and whatever scenario it is in, and my tap and sink are more like 30mm from the plug, not 30CM and in fact, as mentioned, the tap spout can be positioned OVER the plug. I am not one of those anal 'health and safety' nutters, just mindful that IMO, my tap is too dangerously designed and positioned to a 240V plug. I do not care about regulations, or even that it seems to be common in motorhomes. I just think it is NUTS!

 

[jezport]

I was only making the point that electricity and water do not mix wherever and whatever scenario it is in, and my tap and sink are more like 30mm from the plug, not 30CM and in fact, as mentioned, the tap spout can be positioned OVER the plug. I am not one of those anal 'health and safety' nutters, just mindful that IMO, my tap is too dangerously designed and positioned to a 240V plug. I do not care about regulations, or even that it seems to be common in motorhomes. I just think it is NUTS!

I agree, I wouldnt be happy.

 

[PhilandMena]

Although I am now out of touch with up to date H & S legislation
I can confirm that everyone in the UK has a legal duty of care to everybody else. Also in the 1974 haswa under section 3.1 All employers have a duty of care to others. In essence, everybody who can be effected by his/her acts and omissions. So yes, the manufacturer has to take all this and a whole shed load of other considerations, regulations, rules and codes of practices into account when building and supplying products to Joe public.

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[Deleted member 29692]

If you go to"kitchen" on the same link it only says that socket must be 30cm from the sink

What's missing from that is the the way it's worded in BS7671 (the wiring regs) The words "where practicable" are added to the end.

I don't have a regs book any more so I can't post the exact reg but someone else might.

 

[smiffy64]

I've just checked and caravans are a special installation in BS7671 these days. There's still nothing wrong with the socket in that location though

Well maybe from the point of view of the regulations manual. But in reality, I am going to override the regulations with common sense. I have shown the photo...surely you can see my point

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Well maybe from the point of view of the regulations manual. But in reality, I am going to override the regulations with common sense. I have shown the photo...surely you can see my point

Like I said previously there is one in my van in a similar position. I have no problem with it.

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[WillH]

It amuses me in my sons house in France all the bath and shower rooms have the light switch inside the room and they all have a socket. Bare in mind that the UK domestic wiring systems are not as safe as the continental systems, they use double pole switches and have had RCD's for a long time.

Personally the location of your socket wouldn't bother me, if you're not happy, remove and disconnect it.

 

[smiffy64]

Like I said previously there is one in my van in a similar position. I have no problem with it.

Personally the location of your socket wouldn't bother me, if you're not happy, remove and disconnect it.

There are plenty available in baby shopts / online

So what you are saying is, and I do not mean any disrespect (at least in your direction), you are happy to accept a situation where a tap hovers over an electrical 240V outlet, and just accept it because 'that is the way it is' ?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

So what you are saying is, and I do not mean any disrespect (at least in your direction), you are happy to accept a situation where a tap hovers over an electrical 240V outlet, and just accept it because 'that is the way it is' ?

I accept it because based on my qualifications and many years experience I don't see a significant risk

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[smiffy64]

my qualifications and many years experience I don't see a significant risk

Do you mean because you are not dead yet?

 

[WillH]

The risk is always the user. It poses no risk if not used, if used correctly it poses no risk. Just make sure you don't spray water on it. As above, if you're not happy with it remove and disconnect it. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[PhilandMena]

As an aside and as best as I can recall, all British Standards have been incorporated into EU standards and are pretty much obsolete as they have on effect been superveeded. I'm going back at least 7 years.
Bet a pound to a pinch of dog shit this will now be challenged. Lol

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