Dealers Mark Up

Tincataylor

Tincataylor

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Never leave a campsite with your clothes line tied to a lamp post.
I fully understand that a business is not a charity and that it can only survive by making a profit, but recent experience has got me wondering what planet these people are on.
We would like to trade up our motorhome to one that is a little younger and to that end we went to the show at Shepton Mallet this year. Having had a good look round we decided that the Autotrail Tracker EK met our needs and it became apparent that we would need to find £40K to proceed. One of the dealers had a carbon copy of our current Auto Sleeper Nuevo for sale for £28K, so we figured we could expect somewhere around the £25K mark as a part exchange. As there was not a single Tracker EK at the show we left our details with several dealers and asked them to get in touch as soon as one came in. Result?.....not a single call. Recently we noticed that one of these dealers had a Trakker so we asked why no contact and received some story about their computer system not being very good. We moved on and asked for a part exchange deal and were offered £17K for our van, which would be some £10K+ less than what they would try and sell it for plus the margin they were making on the van we wanted to purchase. We would assume the latter margin to be at least £5K so they stand to make around £15K on the whole transaction. When I pointed this out they miraculously "found" another £4K they could offer for our van out of thin air. These kinds of mark ups are totally unacceptable to us. We were hoping not to have to do a private sale / purchase as it is so time consuming but its the only reasonable option.
So if you want a Nuevo or have a Tracker for sale drop us a PM, and if you are driving past Junction 22 on the M5 and thinking of popping into one of the dealers there........keep on driving.

The Tincas
 
Tincataylor said:
I fully understand that a business is not a charity and that it can only survive by making a profit, but recent experience has got me wondering what planet these people are on.
We would like to trade up our motorhome to one that is a little younger and to that end we went to the show at Shepton Mallet this year. Having had a good look round we decided that the Autotrail Tracker EK met our needs and it became apparent that we would need to find £40K to proceed. One of the dealers had a carbon copy of our current Auto Sleeper Nuevo for sale for £28K, so we figured we could expect somewhere around the £25K mark as a part exchange. As there was not a single Tracker EK at the show we left our details with several dealers and asked them to get in touch as soon as one came in. Result?.....not a single call. Recently we noticed that one of these dealers had a Trakker so we asked why no contact and received some story about their computer system not being very good. We moved on and asked for a part exchange deal and were offered £17K for our van, which would be some £10K+ less than what they would try and sell it for plus the margin they were making on the van we wanted to purchase. We would assume the latter margin to be at least £5K so they stand to make around £15K on the whole transaction. When I pointed this out they miraculously "found" another £4K they could offer for our van out of thin air. These kinds of mark ups are totally unacceptable to us. We were hoping not to have to do a private sale / purchase as it is so time consuming but its the only reasonable option.
So if you want a Nuevo or have a Tracker for sale drop us a PM, and if you are driving past Junction 22 on the M5 and thinking of popping into one of the dealers there........keep on driving.

The Tincas
Click to expand...
Trouble is though, they will find someone who will pay it, or they wouldn't be selling them.
 
So many ifs, buts & maybe in OP.

Is it the same dealer that has both the carbon copy on their forecourt and the new one?
£28k is the sticker price... the dealer will probably have to give a discount.
As you point out, selling is so time consuming... if your time is valuable, why isn't the dealers?
A private sale doesn't offer a warranty nor has to pay VAT. Nor any of the associated costs of running a business.

:rolleyes:
 
Last week we looked at PX'ing our 11-month old van (via my original supplying dealer) and the figures were thourougly depressing to say the least.

Mind you, I looked at the accounts pertaining to said dealer and, like many dealers, their net profit margin has seen a significant decline recently so I'm not surprised that they wanted to rip our eyes out.
 
I was self employed and had a company for VAT etc. I only once made a "net " profit, paid myself just enough to keep up my pension, we did very nicely thank you, a special thanks to all those on PAYE for paying so much in taxes.
 
High margins appear to be a Brit thing, I know their costs are higher & volumes lower than mainland Europe but still seems excessive.
When we traded our last van in Belgium not only did we get a price £12k higher than UK dealers would offer (and much higher discount on the new van). Our Dealer gave us €60k for our van and said he would sell it on for 60k without a warranty or would want around €65k with a warranty. It was on his website a couple of weeks later for €65½k and he would probably discount that. Also spoke to a German dealer offered us the same price.
 
Was visiting N&B recently and, whilst a few years ago they would not take my RHD Arto in P/X, they will now and the offer 'sight unseen' seemed about what I could expect in a private sale.

So that seems to reinforce Lenny's comments above.
 
I can charge £1000 Inc VAT for a repair, with the parts costing me a mere £50.

But by the time I've done my unpaid tax collecting of £166'ish and all the rest of the cost of sales....

Advertising
Fuel
Motoring costs
Telephone and other utilities
Etc etc
Public liability insurance etc



If I am lucky and I make a profit. I have to pay corporation tax.

It's all about each companies cost of sales and profits

That's when I've already paid my National insurance, employers national insurance and my standard income tax.

It's not that simple as looking at initial figures
 
Having recently decided to retire from motorhoming I was faced with selling my 04 plated Autocruise Stargazer. Already had an up to date service and MOT so I had an internal valet, got a mobile habitation check, explained that I was not keen on doing a private sale and the guy, having dealt with them before, recommended Motorhome Depot to me. Local rep came round Checked the van over took a load of photos and made a short video. This was on a Friday and it was advertised from the following Monday. Had a call on Thursday to say they had potential buyers who came on Sunday for a look And by Tuesday had confirmed they wanted to buy at my asking price of 15K plus his commission of about 12%. So it was effectively sold in about a week for the price I wanted with little effort on my part other than sorting out an electrical problem before handover.

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There is a caravan and motor home dealer in East Hants who checks the obituaries, and views the houses. If he sees a caravan or camper in the drive, he knocks on the door and offers to buy the van from the widow. He carries a damp meter in a wet flannel in his pocket, and takes readings inside the vehicle. Obviously it registers damp patches, and he offers to purchase at a much reduced price.

He's been bankrupt about 5 times, nd he is worth millions. I can remember going there one day and seeing a rotary clothes drier covered with £50 notes. It seems he had a bag of them in the roof, and it developed a leak ( unlike the caravans he bought ).
 
I asked for a px price on my van I have owned for 6 years. Dealer offered me a minimum of £1000 more than I paid. Unfortunately I didn't have the 100k to change :-(
Freind of ours just lost 20k plus on a van not even a year old. And they was spending big.
 
Wild Brambles said:
There is a caravan and motor home dealer in East Hants who checks the obituaries, and views the houses. If he sees a caravan or camper in the drive, he knocks on the door and offers to buy the van from the widow. He carries a damp meter in a wet flannel in his pocket, and takes readings inside the vehicle. Obviously it registers damp patches, and he offers to purchase at a much reduced price.

He's been bankrupt about 5 times, nd he is worth millions. I can remember going there one day and seeing a rotary clothes drier covered with £50 notes. It seems he had a bag of them in the roof, and it developed a leak ( unlike the caravans he bought ).
Click to expand...
You have to laugh sometimes, my old mate had a builder friend who charged VAT for years ⚠️
He was never registered lmao
 
I sympathise and agree with what you say. Howe
TeeMyob said:
I can charge £1000 Inc VAT for a repair, with the parts costing me a mere £50.

But by the time I've done my unpaid tax collecting of £166'ish and all the rest of the cost of sales....

Advertising
Fuel
Motoring costs
Telephone and other utilities
Etc etc
Public liability insurance etc



If I am lucky and I make a profit. I have to pay corporation tax.

It's all about each companies cost of sales and profits

That's when I've already paid my National insurance, employers national insurance and my standard income tax.

It's not that simple as looking at initial figures
Click to expand...
And you’ve omitted your pension contributions that should be included as part of your overheads.:)

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Dealer profits , I have seen up to £8000 discounts on 2019 stock models ( not talking about £100,000 vehicles) so what profit do they make when selling these discounted vehicles or, do they make a loss Hmm, Hmm, assuming they make a profit on 2019 stock models , I often wonder how much profit they make now on the 2020 Motorhomes.
 
When we viewed the latest acquisition, We sat with the sales person and where asked what we would take to make the deal. I gave him a figure, got the usual sharp intake of breath, and the "offer" (10k lower), bit of haggling up wards and still no deal. So we made to leave apologising, but saying we could not afford it at that "deal". At that point we where asked if we could wait, while he discussed it with the sales director, 5 min later we had our deal, @ MY price. I wondered afterward, wether it was of significace that it was a week before the yearly tax deadline?.
 
The cost of running a business is working out your overheads, and maximise profits to a reasonable degree ie. value for money if I and lots of others did not think we were getting good value using a business we would not use.
Going back to Motorhome values I was at the Nec Show about 4 years ago on a stand talking to a Ex. car salesmen, I said how are sales he said good , but he was getting agro from other Dealers salesmen, for giving to much discount ,he said on a car you were very lucky to get 5 or 6% profit here on Motorhomes I could not believe the margins, I don't want to mention them in fear of upsetting Dealers on here, whom I might want a deal with, but My motto in business was if asked for discount was "there's no sweetness in nothing"
 
Lenny HB said:
High margins appear to be a Brit thing, I know their costs are higher & volumes lower than mainland Europe but still seems excessive.
When we traded our last van in Belgium not only did we get a price £12k higher than UK dealers would offer (and much higher discount on the new van). Our Dealer gave us €60k for our van and said he would sell it on for 60k without a warranty or would want around €65k with a warranty. It was on his website a couple of weeks later for €65½k and he would probably discount that. Also spoke to a German dealer offered us the same price.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, was it a LHD traded in against a new LHD?
 
Dunno if it's relevant to motorhomes, but I've always traded cars in on the assumption the dealer will retail your vehicle at roughly one third more than what he's offering you - if that makes sense.
 
Tincataylor said:
I fully understand that a business is not a charity and that it can only survive by making a profit, but recent experience has got me wondering what planet these people are on.
We would like to trade up our motorhome to one that is a little younger and to that end we went to the show at Shepton Mallet this year. Having had a good look round we decided that the Autotrail Tracker EK met our needs and it became apparent that we would need to find £40K to proceed. One of the dealers had a carbon copy of our current Auto Sleeper Nuevo for sale for £28K, so we figured we could expect somewhere around the £25K mark as a part exchange. As there was not a single Tracker EK at the show we left our details with several dealers and asked them to get in touch as soon as one came in. Result?.....not a single call. Recently we noticed that one of these dealers had a Trakker so we asked why no contact and received some story about their computer system not being very good. We moved on and asked for a part exchange deal and were offered £17K for our van, which would be some £10K+ less than what they would try and sell it for plus the margin they were making on the van we wanted to purchase. We would assume the latter margin to be at least £5K so they stand to make around £15K on the whole transaction. When I pointed this out they miraculously "found" another £4K they could offer for our van out of thin air. These kinds of mark ups are totally unacceptable to us. We were hoping not to have to do a private sale / purchase as it is so time consuming but its the only reasonable option.
So if you want a Nuevo or have a Tracker for sale drop us a PM, and if you are driving past Junction 22 on the M5 and thinking of popping into one of the dealers there........keep on driving.

The Tincas
Click to expand...
We changed our van at the NEC this year, and were amazed at the difference in the figures that we were offered for our current two and a half year old Van. We ended up with a deal that we are extremely happy with, and so looking forward to getting our new van sometime in the new year. But, the lowest figure that we were offered for our current van was a whopping £20K lower than the figure that we ended up getting. We sort of said to that particular dealer, don’t Pi@@ down our back and tell us its raining? He even had the cheek to ring us later in the day, to see if we had thought anymore about his offer. I had great delight in telling him that we had secured a much better deal elsewhere.
 
Px' my motorhome last April, got 38k for it. Its now on dealers forecourt for 34K . Deal was for a brand new motorhome that cost 70k and was a special deal at the NEC show. The price of the new van was definitely the best price I could find after 6 months of searching.

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