Council tax on motorhomes

G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
I have been chatting with a mate, who has heard that they are considering charging council tax on motorhomes, something along the lines of it being considered an holiday home.

To be honest it sounds;

a) complete and utter rubbish
b)completely unworkable;

Which council would get the money? what about if you were abroad?

I am only guessing but surely it would only apply to full timers?

As anyone heard anything about this? I have asked him to get more details
 

Bryan

Free Member
Jul 19, 2007
2,085
342
Funster No
6
I have not heard this but agree with you. How on earth could it work.

How would they 'band' them? Number of berths? Seats?
Would we need HIPS as well when we sell? ::bigsmile:
 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Ha forgot a bit

the suggestion was that they would be banded by list price, this would then be reduced after 5 years (how he didnt know, maybe a percentage off or dropping a band?)

To be honest I am not sure whethor I am being "had" here....

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Bryan

Free Member
Jul 19, 2007
2,085
342
Funster No
6
Well if my motorhome becomes a holiday home then they will have to stop taxing it as a vehicle as well...

I think the ripple effect would make this completely unworkable too.
 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Well if my motorhome becomes a holiday home then they will have to stop taxing it as a vehicle as well...

I think the ripple effect would make this completely unworkable too.
Bryan

Taxing something more than once wont bother then just look at petrol, its taxed multiple times.

what ripple effect?
 

Bryan

Free Member
Jul 19, 2007
2,085
342
Funster No
6
Taxing something more than once wont bother then just look at petrol, its taxed multiple times.

True, multiple taxing is evident all the way through. Pay is income taxed but then we are taxed (VAT) when we buy things and then if we leave things to people they may have to pay tax again (IHT)

Ripple effect?

If a vehicle is now a home, we have to pay council tax. As it is now a home can we have post delivered? Will we have to declare it on the electoral role? What about the census?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
ha that kind of ripple

with regard to ripple they have never been known to worry about anomalies.

Huge motorhomes are taxed as virtually the same as cars yet they wish to licence differently.

Big motorhomes are not exempt from tachographs (yet if they are HGV they should be, as confirmed by DOT and VOSA)

the list is endless.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,514
36,167
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
I have been chatting with a mate, who has heard that they are considering charging council tax on motorhomes, something along the lines of it being considered an holiday home.
First thing that struck me is who are "they" to whom your mate refers - the government or some other body (possibly a body flying a policy kite)?

I would guess that your mate has possibly become confused between motorhomes/touring caravans and static caravans. Since council tax was introduced it has been the case that if you live permanently in a static caravan or mobile home you are liable to pay the council tax. Touring caravans kept at your home are not subject to council tax.

Interesting piece on the Valuation Office web site Here - if you are living in a caravan in your garden because your house is uninhabitable after this year's floods then CT is not payable on the house but will be on the caravan.

Graham
 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Graham

Not sure who is discussing this (bodywise), but it is definately about extending the second home/ holiday home council tax to motorhomes, he was pretty vague about the details.

It may be that they are just after fulltimers?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
M

melplash

Deleted User
I doubt it George.

Fulltimers do not live in a holiday home - it is their home.

Secondly fulltimers move about and so to police it would be horrendous.

Thirdly most fulltimers are officially living at an address ie and so pay council tax there.

On the other hand council officials do not often use logic in their thought process so you could be onto something
 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Fulltimers do not live in a holiday home - it is their home. so maybe thats why they are after taxing it?

Secondly fulltimers move about and so to police it would be horrendous. They have to have a paper trail though

Thirdly most fulltimers are officially living at an address ie and so pay council tax there. That would be wrong on so many levels, obtainging insurance by deception etc etc
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Munchie

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2007
8,952
12,647
Camping Les Vigares
Funster No
26
MH
Font Vendôme
Exp
Since 2004
Fulltimers do not live in a holiday home - it is their home. so maybe thats why they are after taxing it?

Secondly fulltimers move about and so to police it would be horrendous. They have to have a paper trail though

Thirdly most fulltimers are officially living at an address ie and so pay council tax there. That would be wrong on so many levels, obtainging insurance by deception etc etc
If you pay council tax already then you are not required to pay it on your "hoilday" home, I have first hand experience of this.

"paper trail" the cost of administrating this for someone who moves around a lot would be prohibitive.

I'm inclined to think that this is all a bit of a myth. :ROFLMAO:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Supertractorman

Free Member
Sep 7, 2007
410
2
Funster No
239
If some of the newcomers to this country believed by paying Council Tax for Motorhomes or old buses classed as MH's and that they could rent their garden out for parking, I dread to think how many residents could live at one address:Sad:
 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
If you pay council tax already then you are not required to pay it on your "hoilday" home, I have first hand experience of this.

"paper trail" the cost of administrating this for someone who moves around a lot would be prohibitive.

I'm inclined to think that this is all a bit of a myth.
Hi Ken

If you have a motorhome then to stay legal you must get mail, not hard to catch up with you there.

With regard to your first hand experience, there must be some error, paying tax on one property does NOT exempt you from paying it on the second, here is a quote from Advice guide on council tax

"Furnished second or holiday homes in England and Scotland will be liable for council tax but will have a 10% to 50% discount because no one lives there on a permanent basis."

I am inclined to think this is a myth too, but not absolutely certain.
 

Munchie

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2007
8,952
12,647
Camping Les Vigares
Funster No
26
MH
Font Vendôme
Exp
Since 2004
With regard to your first hand experience, there must be some error, paying tax on one property does NOT exempt you from paying it on the second, here is a quote from Advice guide on council tax

"Furnished second or holiday homes in England and Scotland will be liable for council tax but will have a 10% to 50% discount because no one lives there on a permanent basis."
No error George, this applies to houses. in my case it's a static caravan. If it was my ONLY residence then council tax would be payable (with a reduction for the time we have to be off site) If you are already paying council tax on your "first residence" then it is not liable on the static.

There are many people on site who's first residence is in Spain or France and they do not have to pay council tax on there static here.

As for mail it can be delivered anywhere you choose or as some do on my last site can be picked up from the local GPO office.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Hi Ken

we are talking different things here, holiday home as in second home, not a caravan.

all they have to do is deliver the bill, its up to you to pay it.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,514
36,167
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
On the other hand council officials do not often use logic in their thought process so you could be onto something
As an ex council employee in the fields of ICT and implementation of regulatory legislation I have to disagree with that statement.

I would also point out that council tax legislation, like all tax legislation, is drafted and passed by parliament, not local authorities.

Perhaps ignorance of that fact explains ignorance of the use of logic by local authority employees.

Graham
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,514
36,167
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
A number of the previous posts mention liability (or not) for paying in respect of holiday and second homes.

The Citizens Advice Bureau provides the facts Here.

Graham

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
Matey is trying to forward me an in house email (and failing miserably)

By phone the outline points are

Its a VOSA review, for a proposed white paper, it appears to be on all Professionally manufactured/imported Motorhomes registered after 1st Jan 2000

Council Tax is proposed at £88 for first £10,000 band and £44 per each additional £10,000 on the list price of vehicle (he is not sure whethor that is VAT inclusive) this will be payable to LA of vehicles registered address.

"Data held by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and other enforcement agencies using ANPR including VOSA will be used to identify and track vehicles, I am assured total countrywide coverage will be reached prior to the proposed launch date."
 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
:whatthe: Is this ANOTHER Myth?
Hi John

I would hope that it is, but my mates not usually the practical joking kind, so i dont know for sure.

Gill

Those others are not for living in (except maybe caravans, but they can already be liable to council tax, they are not mentioned in this internal mail)
 
Aug 16, 2007
479
2
Funster No
111
I think this may be a wind up (or I hope it is):ROFLMAO:
Seeing in black & white is believing!:Eeek:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
G

GeorgeTelford

Deleted User
I think this may be a wind up (or I hope it is):ROFLMAO:
Seeing in black & white is believing!:Eeek:
Hi Grath

I hope its a wind up to.

I have seen a print out just in the last 10 mins of the internal email, not sure where I stand if I type it all in verbatim, its not adressed to me or my mate......

Looks genuine all the usual double talk, outline draft for proposed white paper.

what the hell

Re. Draft Outline Proposal Motorhomes.

You asked about VOSA's strategic review and requested a copy of the terms of reference given to the transport minister. I enclose a copy of the Terms of Reference for Appointment of External Advisers. We have, removed from this version some commercially sensitive financial and operating information which would underpin any in-house bids so as not to prejudice VOSA's future position with potential suppliers or partners relating to the enforcement of the proposed tax on motorhomes.

These amendments were clearly shown in the original document which is attached along with the outline White Paper.

The Bill will seek to make legislative provisions for the proposals outlined in the recent draft Local Government White Paper. The White Paper will set out a range of proposals designed to include motorhomes as second or holiday homes for the purpose of calculating council tax, although not yet confirmed it has been suggested the banding should shadow that of the current household council tax structure e.g.: a motorhome valued up to £10,000 would be band A and attract and annual tax of around £88.00 per annum.
Further bands would then be reached in increments of £10,000 actual motorhome value (manufacturers list price) and would attract a further £44.00 tax per band above that of the starting rate.

Data held by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and other enforcement agencies using ANPR including VOSA will be used to identify and track vehicles, I am assured total countrywide coverage will be reached prior to the proposed launch date.

The LGA agree there is not a prior assumption on what might then be decided. It is therefore too early in the process to identify any emerging conclusions and none are expected until at least December 2007; however the following outlines the first public proposal, the basic structure is to include all coachbuilt and professionally converted motorhome vehicles UK registered after 1st January 2000.

The outline public release would be under the "green" umbrella, initially in the LEZ then rolling out countrywide over 2008-2009


Can't get a copy of the attachments mentioned they are password protected
 
Aug 16, 2007
479
2
Funster No
111
Just a thought.
What would happen if I sold the m/h to Kath for £1?
What band if any?:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,514
36,167
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
Hi Grath

I hope its a wind up to.

I have seen a print out just in the last 10 mins of the internal email, not sure where I stand if I type it all in verbatim, its not adressed to me or my mate......

Looks genuine all the usual double talk, outline draft for proposed white paper.
Interesting - but I wonder if all the "double talk" is just included by a hoaxer to make the document look genuine. I've just done a few searches on web sites where draft legislation and consultation documents are posted and can't find anything. Worth keeping an eye out for developments I suppose.

Graham
 
Aug 16, 2007
479
2
Funster No
111
Yes but if and that is a very big IF.
If it is genuine they could not expect a person that has paid say £40 k pay the same tax as the person that may buy the same m/h 4th hand for say £15k.
Still think it wont happen:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
SMC Motorhomes Newark
Johns Cross
Safeguard Motorhome Insurance
Rhino Installs
Friendly professional service from qualified technicians
Free Club Stickers
Top