consequence for overweight? (1 Viewer)

Dec 1, 2015
406
976
South Wales
Funster No
40,499
MH
Low profile Coachbuilt
Exp
Twenty years
Well whenever this is mentioned, it seems people are always saying, I’ll take a chance, rather than know what weight they are by using a weighbridge. Either when empty or ready for the road. I’ve done this both ways. For me I don’t want to be delayed if I am stopped for a check, but want to go as quickly as possible, maybe to catch a ferry. Don’t get me wrong, I am no goody goody, but do feel very strongly about this.
 
Oct 12, 2009
10,424
23,267
SW London, Poland and all Europe
Funster No
8,876
MH
A Class N+B Arto 69GL
Exp
Since 2009
What makes people think it’s ok to disregard the law and take a chance of travelling overweight. Not all accidents are to do with a MHs so badly damaged, they won’t be weighed. What for example, God forbid, you were unfortunate to knock someone over, a child or an adult. This now changes the whole scenario of taking a chance. Not for me I’m afraid, whatever the averages of being caught are.

But in that scenario is it not relevant as to whether the vehicle is over its design/CoC weight, for which the suspension and brakes have bee certified, rather than any lower plated/V5C weight, which might have been selected for convenience of a driver's licence.

In that respect I wonder what DVSA's attitude is if the design weight is say 3850/4000/4250 but it is running on a 3500 plate. Do they prosecute on the technical breach of the plated weight or do they take into consideration that they know the vehicle is safe within design limits and ignore the technical infringement? I think that if within the design weight a Court would not be very interested, as the vehicle is 'safe'.

If the answer is the latter, that may explain why not many MHs are stopped, because DVSA know that most base vehicles are safe above 3500, so unless they can see that the distance from a wheel arch to tyre is out of kilter they do not pull it.

Just my view.

Geoff

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May 2, 2014
2,244
4,558
Washington
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31,281
MH
Hymer B 584DL
Exp
17 years + 35 tugging
I've read in the past that various surveys on motorhome weights have found most are overweight. I know that I was overweight with my last motorhome, bought new and well over the weight stated by the manufacturer when weighbridged at home. I felt that I had little option but to run over weight and accept whatever might be any consequences. To run at the plated weight would have meant leaving so much behinf that it would not have been worth motorhoming. This was a four berth motorhome and there was no way that my son or daughter and their respective families could have got down to the plated weight without towing their kids in a trailer.

I see so many vans where the salesman tells people they are 4 berth etc. when clearly the payloads would not make this a realistic possibility. And that's without a weighbridge certificate.

In reality I think the biggest risk is having an insurance claim turned down because of a weight discrepancy but the likelyhood of being weighed after an accident is probably quite slim.

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Apr 3, 2018
3,547
9,878
Funster No
53,151
MH
PVC
Exp
1995-2004 & 2017》
I've read in the past that various surveys on motorhome weights have found most are overweight. I know that I was overweight with my last motorhome, bought new and well over the weight stated by the manufacturer when weighbridged at home. I felt that I had little option but to run over weight and accept whatever might be any consequences. To run at the plated weight would have meant leaving so much behinf that it would not have been worth motorhoming. This was a four berth motorhome and there was no way that my son or daughter and their respective families could have got down to the plated weight without towing their kids in a trailer.

I see so many vans where the salesman tells people they are 4 berth etc. when clearly the payloads would not make this a realistic possibility. And that's without
 
Apr 3, 2018
3,547
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Funster No
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MH
PVC
Exp
1995-2004 & 2017》
Just reinforces the view that most 《3500kg mohos are not fit for purpose.

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sonar

Free Member
Dec 3, 2021
1,267
2,050
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85,716
MH
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I’m not sure that they do; it’s largely ignorance of the fact that they are overweight.

Ian
Fortunately we have not used our Moho yet and have spent a lot of time both refurbishing and making sure we’re within the law.

hence a bit or research here on the forum .
many have not turned to a forum for help and assistance and will without doubt be over weight. Without knowing

we assumed a motorhome was a motor home so long as you have a driving licence Tax. Mot insurance and breakdown cover everything was ok.

how wrong we we’re .
but we’re getting through everything now and will soon be ready for our trips away.
 
Dec 1, 2015
406
976
South Wales
Funster No
40,499
MH
Low profile Coachbuilt
Exp
Twenty years
I once made a deal at the NEC show and it was lucky we were there for two days. When we got back in our van and read all the blurb about the new one. I realised the payload was so small it was unusable even as a two berth. Next day went back and cancelled the deal. At no time was the payload mentioned during negotiation and I forgot to ask.
 
Oct 12, 2009
10,424
23,267
SW London, Poland and all Europe
Funster No
8,876
MH
A Class N+B Arto 69GL
Exp
Since 2009
Yes, I’ve seen police weighing vehicles at Düsseldorf show.

In Austria and Switzerland too

I have heard of Austria and Switzerland weighing at the border, but maybe that is to check that you are not cheating on the 'GO' box and vignette rules.

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Aug 9, 2020
414
637
Funster No
74,151
MH
Wildax
Exp
~20 years
That's not quite the right use of the word risk

The likelihood of being pulled up is LOW

The consequence of being done is HIGH

Therefore the risk is MEDIUM
The consequence of being done depends on how much you're over the limit. And is only a fine (and being made to shed weight then and there) unless it's dangerous.

Under 5% - no fine. Otherwise ...
SeverityEndorsableFixed penalty amount
Less than 10%No£100
10% up to but not including 15%No£200
15% and overNo£300

Normally, a fixed penalty would be inappropriate for serious cases of overloading - for example when the vehicle is overloaded by 30% and over, or the excess weight is 5 tonnes - so a court summons would be issued instead.

If the excess weight and the way the load is carried is having a significant effect on road safety - for example, serious instability or loss of control, these other offences will mean a court summons, with the excess weight being part of the offence/s.

HOWEVER - I suspect many motorhomes may struggle with axle limits - perhaps more so than overall weight.

 
Jun 10, 2010
8,421
20,056
Shrewsbury (sometimes)
Funster No
12,013
MH
N&B Clou Liner MAN
Exp
2006
The consequence of being done depends on how much you're over the limit. And is only a fine (and being made to shed weight then and there) unless it's dangerous.

Under 5% - no fine. Otherwise ...
SeverityEndorsableFixed penalty amount
Less than 10%No£100
10% up to but not including 15%No£200
15% and overNo£300

Normally, a fixed penalty would be inappropriate for serious cases of overloading - for example when the vehicle is overloaded by 30% and over, or the excess weight is 5 tonnes - so a court summons would be issued instead.

If the excess weight and the way the load is carried is having a significant effect on road safety - for example, serious instability or loss of control, these other offences will mean a court summons, with the excess weight being part of the offence/s.

HOWEVER - I suspect many motorhomes may struggle with axle limits - perhaps more so than overall weight.

FYI If you're only over on axle weights and not over the gross, the rules also allow you to redistribute your load.
 
Dec 1, 2015
406
976
South Wales
Funster No
40,499
MH
Low profile Coachbuilt
Exp
Twenty years
Don’t forget, all the time you are running overweight, you are not road legal. Just the excuse insurance companies would use not to pay out in an accident It is not only about how much you pay if stopped and caught. It can also lead to axles over their capacity and maybe the tyres are now the wrong ones for the job. If plated at 3500kg, irrespective if the vehicle is capable of carrying more weight by simply being uplated, the law says you are overweight. Paying a fine doesn’t change that.

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Aug 9, 2020
414
637
Funster No
74,151
MH
Wildax
Exp
~20 years
>> Just the excuse insurance companies would use not to pay out in an accident

You may be right, but ... I've just searched the ombudsman decisions and cannot find any claims being refused relating to motorhome weight.

PS. I keep to my weight limits, and am not advocating others break the law.

Edited to add: there are plenty of decisions in there where insurance claims have been rejected where the car had a bald tyre.
 

AlunandFelicie

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2018
560
6,757
Funster No
55,743
MH
Burstner lyseo time
Are you not damaging the structure of the van if constantly Overweight ? particularly if you drive over rough ground ,fields or in our case at music festivals, which is why we’ve booked to have semi air fitted.
that and the shock of rolling up to our local weigh bridge (£5 for 3 weighs!)to find out that with with both of us onboard a full fuel tank,NO water and very little else we were 3420KG!!!!!
 
Jun 12, 2016
1,609
4,333
Scottish Borders
Funster No
43,560
MH
Globecar Revolution
Exp
Since 2006
Have not seen motorhomes being pulled for checks in UK ( I cant remember the last time I spotted an HGV one)
I have seen them in Germany pulling in motorhomes and caravans. I assume they were getting weighed. We were heading in the opposite direction.
As previously mentioned a full tank of fuel and water and a lot of folk will be over the 3500kg before you add in the toys like inflatable canoes, e-Bikes and all the other stuff we kart about.
Like a lot of things it's not treated as a big issue until some tragedy hits the media.

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Jun 4, 2010
392
784
Funster No
11,918
Good afternoon,

I reckon most folk do,nt know they are overweight and if they did might not bother. I doubt whether an insurance co . would bother if involved in an accident as most coachbuilts disintegrate on impact. Th cops are not really bothered unless a vehicle is dragging its arse or obviously squashed tyres or really filthy. The cops concentrate on freight and it might surprise you that its not all safety either, say a fleet of 500 trucks run one tonne overweight at say 10 pounds sterling a tonne . now do the maths . Its as much to do with a commercial level playing field.. My guess is at least 50% of motorhomes are overweight one way or another. Check the design weights under the bonnet and keep within them also the gross . Having said all that you are more likely to get a bollicking for a small overload by British cops.
I always weight before going over the water as we are usually fully jagged up and its best not give them an opportunity as you will not know the outcomes.
 
Dec 1, 2015
406
976
South Wales
Funster No
40,499
MH
Low profile Coachbuilt
Exp
Twenty years
I cannot believe the attitude of some, who think because they don’t hear of MHs being stopped, that it is not happening and in the next breath think the fine seems acceptable if caught, On my insurance policy it says, the responsibility is mine to make sure it is kept in a roadworthy condition. They are telling me if not, I don’t have cover.
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,682
147,580
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
I cannot believe the attitude of some, who think because they don’t hear of MHs being stopped, that it is not happening and in the next breath think the fine seems acceptable if caught, On my insurance policy it says, the responsibility is mine to make sure it is kept in a roadworthy condition. They are telling me if not, I don’t have cover.
Agree, IMO no excuse for being overweight.

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BDM

Aug 17, 2013
155
192
Norwich
Funster No
27,556
MH
544
Exp
Since 2008
I cannot believe the attitude of some, who think because they don’t hear of MHs being stopped, that it is not happening and in the next breath think the fine seems acceptable if caught, On my insurance policy it says, the responsibility is mine to make sure it is kept in a roadworthy condition. They are telling me if not, I don’t have cover.
Agree, IMO no excuse for being overweight.

Absolutely agree. Be responsible, weigh your MH and don't exceed your plated weights.
 
Aug 18, 2011
12,090
17,892
derbys
Funster No
17,808
MH
AUTOSLEEPER SYMBOL
Exp
since 2007.Tugger before since 1970
To be serious, I've been stopped over here a few times when I was a trucker, I was fine each time but others weren't so lucky. You will have to lose weight, drain tanks, unload excess weight, but! You can't just dump it at the weightwatchers site. You have to arrange for it to be picked up by family or friends, I've seen trucks trans shipping pallets etc. tippers having to handball loads onto another vehicle.

Can't speak for Europe though.
Back in 1988 my son got pulled in an Escort van on the M6 and was overloaded,,We had to send another van up to off load the excess.He was fined £90..My wife and I were partners in the firm,,,we were fined £400 each.I kid you not.BUSBY.
 
Jun 4, 2010
392
784
Funster No
11,918
But in that scenario is it not relevant as to whether the vehicle is over its design/CoC weight, for which the suspension and brakes have bee certified, rather than any lower plated/V5C weight, which might have been selected for convenience of a driver's licence.

In that respect I wonder what DVSA's attitude is if the design weight is say 3850/4000/4250 but it is running on a 3500 plate. Do they prosecute on the technical breach of the plated weight or do they take into consideration that they know the vehicle is safe within design limits and ignore the technical infringement? I think that if within the design weight a Court would not be very interested, as the vehicle is 'safe'.

If the answer is the latter, that may explain why not many MHs are stopped, because DVSA know that most base vehicles are safe above 3500, so unless they can see that the distance from a wheel arch to tyre is out of kilter they do not pull it.

Just my view.

Geoff
Pretty much that's it but generally 5% onthe gross weight is OK with the cops to allow for windloading on the vehicle and inaccuracies in weighing equipment you will get a telling off . Never exceed the design weights . I reckon the biggest risk with overloaded vehicles is decending long steep hills like you get on the continent and cooking the brakes

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Jun 4, 2010
392
784
Funster No
11,918
Nobody has addressed the differentiation that I made between being over the plated weight and over the vehicle design weight.

What are the penalties for the former and the latter?

Are fixed penalties issued if you are between the two?

Geoff
Generally it's 5% so if you are 5% over on the back axle which is the axle most likely to be overweight then you will possibly get a fixed penalty depending on how much overweight you can be be stopped prom proceeding. Like you might have mentioned a transport lawyer would argue the design weight was not exceeded and so the vehicle was deemed safe.
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,682
147,580
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
Nobody has addressed the differentiation that I made between being over the plated weight and over the vehicle design weight.

What are the penalties for the former and the latter?

Are fixed penalties issued if you are between the two?

Geoff
The plated weight is the legal max you can run at regardless of the design weight.

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Sep 19, 2016
1,175
2,346
Llyn Peninsula
Funster No
45,203
MH
Dethleffs Globebus t7
Exp
Four years
You do not have to use SvTech. A consultancy recommended to me by MinxyGirl has completed the same excercise for me for the total sum of £94. I now have a certified additional payload of 400kg. That is less than a fine on a single axle (y)
Could we have the details please x
 
Sep 19, 2016
1,175
2,346
Llyn Peninsula
Funster No
45,203
MH
Dethleffs Globebus t7
Exp
Four years
We only have one plate on our Malibu, 4,400 but our registration document says 4,250 which would be used if we were weighed

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