Component quality - Motorhomes vs Boats

[Chuns]

I know a lot of fellow Motorhomes are, like us, ex-boaters, and am wondering whether the same thought had struck them.

I understand perfectly the need to build down to a weight, and so accept the relative flimsiness of the structure above the chassis when compared with boats, which even in the modern era are relatively substantial.

I can also understand, a bit, that fittings, like say cupboard latches, and hinges need to be similarly light, and of relatively poor quality (not saying bad, this is all relative). However some of the other stuff, common to both boating and Motorhoming seems to be less robust. You could almost say trashy.


In our six your old van I have experienced issues with water pumps, inverters, switches, electronics, lighting and other niggles. Many of these components are common to boating as well.

That is not to say our boats didn't have failures too, it is just that in fixing them I rarely felt I was dealing with something poorly made or designed.

Could it be that the harsher movement of motorhomes compared to that of boats is to blame, or is our market one that shortcuts can be hidden?

I'd be very interested to hear others' views.

 

[69473]

Our Hymer Grand Canyon has plastic hinges and only one strut support on its overhead lockers, is this really acceptable on a 80k van!
We also have a particularly naff kitchen tap that's already let us down once.
Apart from that its been fault free but those hinges do bother me, a failure waiting to happen.

 

[AXO66]

Leaks spring to mind as well.

 

[jezport]

A lot of the poor quality accessories are due to the buyer choosing a cheap option. Inverters come to mind, a cheap chinese one at £79 or one with the same (claimed) output on a good brand £399.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

You may be on to a something with the different environments. The kit in motorhomes is definitely shaken, not stirred.

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[funflair]

I have never had or even priced a boat so wonder is the comparison is a fair one? on our van the electronics, water pump, toilet etc are all as used in the marine environment so if the failure rate was/is higher I could only guess that the vibrations in a motorhome were in some way to blame.

I also wonder if you get what you pay for as our van is 3 times the price of a Hymer GC, to be honest I would be upset if the components were not better

 

[tonyidle]

I know a lot of fellow Motorhomes are, like us, ex-boaters, and am wondering whether the same thought had struck them.

I understand perfectly the need to build down to a weight, and so accept the relative flimsiness of the structure above the chassis when compared with boats, which even in the modern era are relatively substantial.

I can also understand, a bit, that fittings, like say cupboard latches, and hinges need to be similarly light, and of relatively poor quality (not saying bad, this is all relative). However some of the other stuff, common to both boating and Motorhoming seems to be less robust. You could almost say trashy.


In our six your old van I have experienced issues with water pumps, inverters, switches, electronics, lighting and other niggles. Many of these components are common to boating as well.

That is not to say our boats didn't have failures too, it is just that in fixing them I rarely felt I was dealing with something poorly made or designed.

Could it be that the harsher movement of motorhomes compared to that of boats is to blame, or is our market one that shortcuts can be hidden?

I'd be very interested to hear others' views.

If we accept that the components of a conversion need to be lightweight (and they obviously do) why do we also accept the utterly atrocious build quality of the majority of motorhomes? I always have the impression of decent quality kit thrown together as fast as possible by unskilled labour. No attempt is made to do the minimum even where it would cost no more in terms of time and effort.

 

[Carpmart]

Some Motorhome are well screwed together. I’ve been very impressed with the methods of construction and materials used in my RS.

Sadly building to a price and weight of components drives the manufacturing methodologies for most manufacturers…

 

[Jim]

Weight is just not an issue with a boat, often it's heavier the better. Whereas weight is the prime consideration in most every motorhome at 3.5t and under. Unfortunately, poor design means light materials often equals flimsy.

 

[Jamesh]

Weight is just not an issue with a boat, often it's heavier the better. Whereas weight is the prime consideration in most every motorhome at 3.5t and under. Unfortunately, poor design means light materials often equals flimsy.

Tell that to the Ineos Americans cup team!

But I know what you mean!

If your motorhome lurched like a boat can do off a wave and you fell onto the toilet cubicle there wouldn't be much left in a MH!!

Cheers James

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[Lenny HB]

With the lightweight construction on the newer Hymer's they are nowhere as strong as the older models.

You do have to question some of there money saving design features.
In 2016 they started fitting plastic hinges to the hab & garage doors they can't take to weight and wear at an alarming rate. They have now gone back to steel Hinges.
I have just had a batch of stainless steel hinges made for myself and fellow Funsters at a fraction of the cost of crappy Hymer replacements.

Another problem is the poor quality chrome on all the cabinet handles flaking not excusable on vans costing 100k.

Why do they fit microswitched taps that constantly fail.

 

[Pausim]

Could it be that the harsher movement of motorhomes compared to that of boats is to blame, or is our market one that shortcuts can be hidden?

My experience was the other way around. Hour after hour of crashing through waves is far harsher than anything a motorhome is ever likely to experience, short of a head on crash. Boats have to be built to withstand enormous stresses and weight is far less of a consideration. They have many additional components in common e.g. Sterling.

 

[vzac]

We lived on a barrow boat for over 7yrs, and owned 2 motorhomes. When on the narrowboat you have to have a boat safety certificate, that covers water disposal, water, gas systems, electric instalations etc. There are also a lot of eu regulations that came in during the 90,s. With motorhome the equivalent is an mot, this does not cover habitation. A hab check is the closest, and apart from a damp test is pretty much useless ( imo), especially if it's a commercially built mo. Self build, there is little regulation, for habitation on vehicles unlike boats.
As for quality, mo is a relative small market, to boats, more competition in mo market will create a demand for better quality over time. Also boat manufacturers do not have to worry about left or right hand drive, so can make 1 product fit all markets more cost effective. There are poor quality built boats as well, but safety out at sea is more concerning than breaking down at the side of a rd. But I am no expert.

 

[SpeedyDux]

My experience was the other way around. Hour after hour of crashing through waves is far harsher than anything a motorhome is ever likely to experience, short of a head on crash. Boats have to be built to withstand enormous stresses and weight is far less of a consideration. They have many additional components in common e.g. Sterling.

Never owned a boat but many of our main roads are becoming boneshakers. The worst I've driven on lately was a steep uphill stretch of the A37 in Zummerzet where HGVs have destroyed the wearing surface to create a cratered rather than merely potholed effect and is in urgent need of total resurfacing. I expected the internal lockers to fall off walls it was so rough. Harsh ride with those Michelin Camper tyres doesn't help.

 

[Jamesh]

My experience was the other way around. Hour after hour of crashing through waves is far harsher than anything a motorhome is ever likely to experience, short of a head on crash. Boats have to be built to withstand enormous stresses and weight is far less of a consideration. They have many additional components in common e.g. Sterling.

Taking a MH sailing would be the equivalent of taking it round a off-road course!!!

Cheers James

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[Pausim]

Never owned a boat but many of our main roads are becoming boneshakers. The worst I've driven on lately was a steep uphill stretch of the A37 in Zummerzet where HGVs have destroyed the wearing surface to create a cratered rather than merely potholed effect and is in urgent need of total resurfacing. I expected the internal lockers to fall off walls it was so rough. Harsh ride with those Michelin Camper tyres doesn't help.

I still don’t think it comes close to the bashing a boat has to take. No suspension, no tyres and when you land flat in a trough the water has no give in it. Just like being dropped onto a hard surface.

 

[pelican]

.Most important thing with a powerboat in rough seas is to slow down

 

[Carpmart]

.Most important thing with a powerboat in rough seas is to slow down

Equally so with the pothole infested roads we have too!

 

[John Barrett]

A lot of the poor quality accessories are due to the buyer choosing a cheap option. Inverters come to mind, a cheap chinese one at £79 or one with the same (claimed) output on a good brand £399.

Agreed. IIRC the Victron Inverter/Charger in my Dutch steel boat in 2003 was nigh on £1500!

 

[Paulypaul]

I can say with confidence, being in contact with all types of boats for a living, ranging in prices from £1000 through to £750,000, that the fixtures and fittings you generally find in a mid range, and I'm talking about a new boat with a value of £250,000, aren't of exceptional quality.

Sure the high end boats from £400k through to £750k are quality and certainly built to withstand most of what is thrown at them, but as I say, mid range boats are built to a cost and you can see where costs have been cut.

It's all very glamorous having a shiny brand new boat on your trailer with a value of £250,000 to £300.000, but most of them aren't going to last as well as the older built boats like 1970's Brooms or Freeman's. In fact last week I delivered a 43' Sealine that looked the part until you started to look closer at internal fittings. That had a used boat price tag of £185,000. Then, later in the week I delivered a Freeman 32 circa early 80's, and you could just see and feel the difference in the quality of the fittings and build quality, and that had a modest price tag of £29,000.

I think the builders of cars, motorhomes and boats all build with a common ethos, and that's to make as much money as possible, which inevitably means cutting back on overheads. Sourcing cheap mass produced fittings from China is one way its achieved and that coupled with poorer build standards makes for inferior quality goods.

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[IRHP]

I was once told, buy a Westerly Centaur they are built like brick shithouses...... unfortunately they sail like one as well.

 

[Jamesh]

I was once told, buy a Westerly Centaur they are built like brick shithouses...... unfortunately they sail like one as well.

I thought they were quite fast compared to a ferro boat...which has more in common with the above mentioned house than you might first appreciate!!

Cheers James

 

[Ivory55]

I guess it’s like most things, something is designed and they sell them the idea. Then they get told it’s what they want but it needs to be for X amount of pounds , and then the cuts begin.

 

[Otter Spotter]

If y

I was once told, buy a Westerly Centaur they are built like brick shithouses...... unfortunately they sail like one as well.

If you are sitting down on the job(ie) what can you expect?

 

[robnchris]

Our experience with Yachts is they live in the harshest environment on the planet whereas motorhomes travelling on tarmac roads are the equivalent of a jaunt around the marine moorings.

I had a conversation with the CEO of Autotrail about water ingress and he informed that I didn’t understand the stress a motorhome suffered.
I pointed out to him that our 45ft Catalina sailing Yacht had been across the Atlantic Ocean 3 times, spent it’s life on the sea sailing in all sorts of weather and it never suffered from water ingress, yes the bilges would have water in them but that was from rain water coming down the internals of the keel stepped mast.

As far as the internal fittings go the Catalina was finished to a very high standard much like our Westerly everything was over engineered, all doors and cupboards were made of solid wood, the dining table was a thing of beauty, as was the cockpit table.

Just a note about the Westerly Centaur, if you look around marinas and moorings anywhere in the world you will most probably find a Westerly Centaur, they must have got something right.

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[vzac]

Robnchris, harsh environment, you ever seen central manchester or Birmingham, friday night by the canals. Now that is a harsh environment.

 

[dash300]

I can say with confidence, being in contact with all types of boats for a living, ranging in prices from £1000 through to £750,000, that the fixtures and fittings you generally find in a mid range, and I'm talking about a new boat with a value of £250,000, aren't of exceptional quality.

Sure the high end boats from £400k through to £750k are quality and certainly built to withstand most of what is thrown at them, but as I say, mid range boats are built to a cost and you can see where costs have been cut.

It's all very glamorous having a shiny brand new boat on your trailer with a value of £250,000 to £300.000, but most of them aren't going to last as well as the older built boats like 1970's Brooms or Freeman's. In fact last week I delivered a 43' Sealine that looked the part until you started to look closer at internal fittings. That had a used boat price tag of £185,000. Then, later in the week I delivered a Freeman 32 circa early 80's, and you could just see and feel the difference in the quality of the fittings and build quality, and that had a modest price tag of £29,000.

I think the builders of cars, motorhomes and boats all build with a common ethos, and that's to make as much money as possible, which inevitably means cutting back on overheads. Sourcing cheap mass produced fittings from China is one way its achieved and that coupled with poorer build standards makes for inferior quality goods.

As a one time owner of a Freeman I would concur. The irony being John Freeman started his career as a Caravan Manufacturer! Now the owner of a Broom 38 CL 1997 vintage and built to old Broom standards with a pair of the best Volvo TAMD 41p's. Highly over engineered for their performance; 6 cylinders, 6 ltrs a piece and only pushing out 200hp each,they will outlast me. Pity Brooms stopped production.

 

[MR BLO]

I had a conversation with the CEO of Autotrail about water ingress and he informed that I didn’t understand the stress a motorhome suffered.

Sorry but I’m with the Autotrail CEO here robnchris. I can’t afford a boat but I was very lucky to have parents who could when I was growing up. From our first Norman 20 with 15hp outboard, through Princesses 25,33,48 and finally their « forever » boat, a 2 yr old Princess V65 hardtop (with the small engine option of twin 1400hp diesels), we went everywhere in all weathers, and in all sea states and none of them ever rattled, creaked, groaned, banged or crashed like my Bailey.

 

[DBK]

Our experience with Yachts is they live in the harshest environment on the planet whereas motorhomes travelling on tarmac roads are the equivalent of a jaunt around the marine moorings.

I had a conversation with the CEO of Autotrail about water ingress and he informed that I didn’t understand the stress a motorhome suffered.
I pointed out to him that our 45ft Catalina sailing Yacht had been across the Atlantic Ocean 3 times, spent it’s life on the sea sailing in all sorts of weather and it never suffered from water ingress, yes the bilges would have water in them but that was from rain water coming down the internals of the keel stepped mast.

As far as the internal fittings go the Catalina was finished to a very high standard much like our Westerly everything was over engineered, all doors and cupboards were made of solid wood, the dining table was a thing of beauty, as was the cockpit table.

Just a note about the Westerly Centaur, if you look around marinas and moorings anywhere in the world you will most probably find a Westerly Centaur, they must have got something right.

I'm not sure you understood the point the Autotrail CEO was making. MHs are in cross section the worst possible shape compared to a typical boat. They are also built with major weight constraints. With these constraints they still have to cope with driving over sleeping policemen and potholes. Boats get a hammering in rough weather and can slam into waves but they are solid enough to be able to cope even when the occupants are going green - I've been there.

Your yacht survived because it had one piece curved hulls which would have been very strong where it mattered because weight wouldn't have been much of a consideration when it was designed. A MH by comparison is a mobile pack of cards.

 

[Paulypaul]

As a one time owner of a Freeman I would concur. The irony being John Freeman started his career as a Caravan Manufacturer! Now the owner of a Broom 38 CL 1997 vintage and built to old Broom standards with a pair of the best Volvo TAMD 41p's. Highly over engineered for their performance; 6 cylinders, 6 ltrs a piece and only pushing out 200hp each,they will outlast me. Pity Brooms stopped production.

As a one time owner of a Freeman I would concur. The irony being John Freeman started his career as a Caravan Manufacturer! Now the owner of a Broom 38 CL 1997 vintage and built to old Broom standards with a pair of the best Volvo TAMD 41p's. Highly over engineered for their performance; 6 cylinders, 6 ltrs a piece and only pushing out 200hp each,they will outlast me. Pity Brooms stopped production.

Nice boat the 38....Big lump too when they're out of the water and fairly wide too at 13', for a 38' boat. That's a 38 on my avatar.

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