coach built towing capabilities

[jonah]

hi all,
1st post an not really sure if this has been talked about before, but we've been "motorhomin" now since october last year and we love it.
we recently had a week in Devon and found that the site we were on was tucked away at the end of some very narrow roads and a couple of mile away from the nearest town, in short we needed transport to do anything.
we're looking to buy a small car for around 500-750 quid( fiat, Daewoo etc..) that we can tow using an "A" frame setup.
we have a 1999 coach built Adria on the fiat Ducato 2.8jtd, question is will the van be up to the job of towing it ???
any advice will be much appreciated.
thanks
Jonah

 

[Geo]

In short yes it will cope very well,
read the current post on A frames,very interesting
make sure you dont exceed your maximun train weight for the vehicle and your licence
Geo

 

[Tony Santara]

Jonah
During the course of a days work i see loads of 2.8 jtd's pulling cars /trailers even race support trailers. answer no probs

 

[motoroamin]

To help keep the cost down go for a car under 750kg all-up, then you won't need to worry about braking. I'm sure your GTW will be fine, but you can check it on the weight plate, see example Link Removed

Bear in mind that the weight of the towbar will impact on your available payload.

 

[justme AKA Grath]

To help keep the cost down go for a car under 750kg all-up, then you won't need to worry about braking. I'm sure your GTW will be fine, but you can check it on the weight plate, see example Link Removed

Bear in mind that the weight of the towbar will impact on your available payload.

But if you have to stop quick it can jacknife!
Better to have brakes:thumb:

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[GeorgeTelford]

To help keep the cost down go for a car under 750kg all-up, then you won't need to worry about braking.[/URL]

Check out the A frame thread but in a nutshell even under 750 kg if brakes are fitted they must be operational Construction and use regs apply

Bear in mind that the weight of the towbar will impact on your available payload.

this is a very valid, but often overlooked point.


Another to be aware of is that generally the overhang at rear is already at max on coachbuilts this means that legally a towball or bike rack added at the back will make the vehicle to long and will render the vehicle ilegal (no I do not know of any cases, ever coming to court sio far)

 

[johnsandywhite]

Another to be aware of is that generally the overhang at rear is already at max on coachbuilts this means that legally a towball or bike rack added at the back will make the vehicle to long and will render the vehicle ilegal (no I do not know of any cases, ever coming to court so far)

Well put George.

 

[justme AKA Grath]

Well put George.

Also, 50kg on the back with leverage can be almost double on the back axle!

 

[Loathecliff]

Loads of torque from that FIAT engine, no problem

BUT, it's fwd chassis, put one wheel on grass & unless you are facing downhill, there you may well stay with no grip

 

[pappajohn]

just had a look at my fiat owners manual and all fiat ducato's have a max towing limit of 2000kg. this may be a bit optomistic on 1.9 and 2.0ltr and on steep hills and may put you over the gross train wieght for your van? and your licence entitlement but will cover most cars on trailers/a-frames.
hope this helps

john.

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[Hugh Jardon]

we have a 2.8 jtd ducato and have just come back from cornwall, we towed the boat down there and it was fine, i did not push it up the big hills but on the flat it will sit there at 60 just fine

total weight of the boat and trailer is around 1600kg cough

total length of mH and rib is 17.5m

the engine has been pepped upto 175hp which probably helps quite a lot

the fiat 2.8 is 500 % better than the engine i had in my td5 landy

 

[pappajohn]

we have a 2.8 jtd ducato and have just come back from cornwall, we towed the boat down there and it was fine, i did not push it up the big hills but on the flat it will sit there at 60 just fine

total weight of the boat and trailer is around 1600kg cough

total length of mH and rib is 17.5m

the engine has been pepped upto 175hp which probably helps quite a lot

the fiat 2.8 is 500 % better than the engine i had in my td5 landy

i'm sure my disco had a fordson major engine cos they bought some cheap and didn't know what to do with 'em. it couldn't pull a bird in a brothel.
john.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

i'm sure my disco had a fordson major engine cos they bought some cheap and didn't know what to do with 'em. it couldn't pull a bird in a brothel.
john.

i had a 200, a 300 an a td5 landy, just sold the td5 a month ago

there is just such a huge difference between the fiat jtd and the pulling power of a landy on the move

i think you are probaby right in your quote :thumb:

 

[motoroamin]

Well, things have been busy here !

Just to comment on a few points:

We're talking about an 'A' frame here, so the trailed car is rolling on the ground with a wheel on each corner, almost impossible to jacknife and the weight ratio between the tractive unit and trailer is very healthy indeed.

Braked/unbraked the debate continues, but many people use unbraked systems successfully (under 750kgGVW); I've not heard of any prosecutions.

Whilst the weight of the towbar does impact on the payload and a little on the moment force of the rear, on an 'A' frame set up there is virtually no downward force on the towbar.

The Ducato towing limit is 2000kg accross the board, unless the motorhome chassis has been uprated above 3500kg GVW, in which case the towing limit comes down accordingly.

OK, I'll shut up now.

 

[pappajohn]

Well, things have been busy here !

Just to comment on a few points:


Braked/unbraked the debate continues, but many people use unbraked systems successfully (under 750kgGVW); I've not heard of any prosecutions.



unless the motorhome chassis has been uprated above 3500kg GVW, in which case the towing limit comes down accordingly.

OK, I'll shut up now.

hi.
construction and use regs state that if a trailer has brakes then they (all) must work regardless of weight.
thats why small (under 750kg)trailers only have hubs and no backplates/drums.
dont forget a car on an A frame effectivly becomes a trailer in accordance with the regs.

you got me on the other point though. i didnt realise that. i would have thought the heavier the van the greater the G.T.W. due to upgraded chassis and suspension.

john.

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[jonah]

well, quality of the replies has blown me away, some really important and usefull info here THANKS EVERYONE, much appreciated.
since i'm on a roll with the replies, any recomendations for type of car i should be looking for?
ideally a four seat for around £1000...
thanks again :thumb:
Jonah

 

[GeorgeTelford]

We're talking about an 'A' frame here, so the trailed car is rolling on the ground with a wheel on each corner, almost impossible to jacknife and the weight ratio between the tractive unit and trailer is very healthy indeed.

Damn, I wrote a reply to this days ago, must have forgotten to press post...

Anyhow, if you reverse a car and release the steering wheel, the vehicle will randomly turn left or right, so in effect will jacknife Maybe not the best discription but you should get the meaning.

 

[Geo]

with that budget i would be looking at the small Fiats, some nice little runners in that price range, after that, Renaults, most vauxhalls and small fords are a little bit on the heavier side
Geo