Clutch problems (1 Viewer)

[johntb]

hi all I own a burstner argos 747 and the last couple of months the clutch been slipping in fifth gear, I've been to the local garage who said the clutch is going so he replaced it but it was worse than before it was burning in 1st and 2nd so took it back and this time was told it's must be the clutch master cylinder had that replaced all seemed OK but yesterday we drove to York from North Wales and it started slipping again can anyone tell me what could be at fault as I've spent all most £1000 on it and it's still the same any help would be gratefully received

 

[DBK]

Welcome! I can only speculate and wonder how a clutch master cylinder could cause clutch slip. Sounds like the garage haven't done a good job of changing the clutch.
Hopefully, someone with more direct experience can help.

 

[Stealaway]

I have just had mine done and the mechanic made a couple of observations regarding MoHo clutches.
He fitted a new clutch to one MoHo last week that was worse than the original, he had to change it again with a different make - then it was all OK
The clutch you buy is not always the one delivered, no matter what it says on the box. I bought a LUK clutch but it was a Valeo when we opened the box.
Has the HP been increased by chip tuning?
How much weight are you pulling - all day - everyday?

Take it back its not right -- and get it replaced ---FOC

See my recent post

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[johntb]

thanks will call round tomorrow fingers crossed he fix it ASAP as we book on the ferry for the 30th May she a 5.2 ton gw so a heavy beast

 

[johntb]

hi Stealaway yes it's been remapped

 

[Stealaway]

How long did the original clutch last? The replacement should last just as long - everything else being equal.

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[Peter & Elaine]

Welcome! I can only speculate and wonder how a clutch master cylinder could cause clutch slip. Sounds like the garage haven't done a good job of changing the clutch.
Hopefully, someone with more direct experience can help.

If the slave or master cylinders are sticking then it will cause clutch slip especially just after changing gears

First of all has it been chipped or remapped
But still my first thought is the clutch fitted is a cheap look alike and there are loads of them about or it not been fitted correctly a friend of ours paid £600 to have a new clutch fitted only to have it fail again 1000 miles later to find out on inspection it had not been changed at all a new plate had been fitted and the old cover plate reused
The garage offerd a full refund only on county court action

Me I would say take it back and make sure they do it correctly using genuine parts
New plate cover release bearing and slave cylinder
Ours was done after 60000 miles use for £650 from our local TRUSTED workshop
I Inspected the old one it was less then half worn but full of dust and plate springs were loose the fitter recons it happens regularly they just get full of dust and crap and slip

 

[johntb]

it's a 2002 reg a it's now covered 70k we had it 6yrs so don't if it ever been replaced we clocked up 45k over the 6 yrs but last yr on our 2nd day in France we where hit head on by a uninsured driver so had a complete new front end and both wings replaced thank for safegaurd insurance they had her back in the uk in 3 days and back in the road in 2 months so we both need a holiday this yr lol

 

[Boringfrog]

As Peter says, make sure the garage has fitted a three piece clutch (quality one). The pressure plate can loose its strength after years of usage.

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[Peter & Elaine]

it's a 2002 reg a it's now covered 70k we had it 6yrs so don't if it ever been replaced we clocked up 45k over the 6 yrs but last yr on our 2nd day in France we where hit head on by a uninsured driver so had a complete new front end and both wings replaced thank for safegaurd insurance they had her back in the uk in 3 days and back in the road in 2 months so we both need a holiday this yr lol

Has this clutch slip problem started after getting it back from accident damage was repaired?
Plus if you have had over 45K driving it I would very much doubt it's your driving technique

 

[Boringfrog]

A quality three piece clutch isn't expensive either.
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/FITS-FIAT-D...3A2add25d915c0abc59fa76c82ffff0dbf%7Ciid%3A17

 

[johntb]

it seems to of started since getting it back it was only when changing from 4th to 5th gear it would pull but rev high once I disengaged the the clutch and reengaged it would be fin it happened 3 times on a 200 mile round trip it been back 3 times since the replacement and the last time it seemed OK so went a head and booked the ferry and as I said on the trip to York this weekend it start again just between 4th and 5th

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[Stealaway]

A quality three piece clutch isn't expensive either.
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/FITS-FIAT-DUCATO-2-8-JTD-POWER-2-8I-DTD-1998-06-OEM-OE-CLUTCH-KIT-3PC-RELEASER-/172429475339?fits=Car+Make:Fiat|Modelucato&hash=item282598fe0b:g:6YcAAOSw32lYyVUw&_trkparms=pageci%3A721dc78a-3e1c-11e7-929d-74dbd180ab6e%7Cparentrq%3A2add25d915c0abc59fa76c82ffff0dbf%7Ciid%3A17

Ring them before ordering --- all the ones I found at this price did not fit my vehicle Vin Number

 

[Boringfrog]

Ring them before ordering --- all the ones I found at this price did not fit my vehicle Vin Number

Was just an example, I wouldn't buy parts off eBay.

 

[johntb]

thanks to all for the advise I'll be taking it back tomorrow morning fingers and toes crossed he'll fix it before the weekend

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[Late Starting]

@johntb
i seem to remember a thread where a clutch problem was caused by the flexible hose going soft of spongy on the inside thus not releasing the pressure fully when you let the pedal up so causing clutch slip until the pressure in the flexible rubber pipe went away slowly.
Cliff

 

[Peter & Elaine]

My thoughts were if it's after the accident and is there any damage to master cylinder or pipe work down to slave cylinder if a pipe has been crushed or nipped it could be stopping fluid coming back and making clutch slow to engage therefore slip
Check everything from pedal back to gearbox it would be so easy to miss something after a accident repair

 

[Silver-Fox]

@johntb
i seem to remember a thread where a clutch problem was caused by the flexible hose going soft of spongy on the inside thus not releasing the pressure fully when you let the pedal up so causing clutch slip until the pressure in the flexible rubber pipe went away slowly.
Cliff

Would have thought the clutch would disengage correctly in that case.

Cant see it making the clutch slip as the fluid would still return at the same speed, flexi soft or not.

I maybe wrong though

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[Silver-Fox]

My thoughts were if it's after the accident and is there any damage to master cylinder or pipe work down to slave cylinder if a pipe has been crushed or nipped it could be stopping fluid coming back and making clutch slow to engage therefore slip
Check everything from pedal back to gearbox it would be so easy to miss something after a accident repair

If you had a pipe nipped would that not cause an issue disengaging the clutch and you would feel that with increased pressure from the pedal.

I see where you're coming from with the fluid return though.

Maybe sticking pressure plates or thrust bearing causing issues?
Only showing up in with due to the torque of engine?

 

[Peter & Elaine]

If you had a pipe nipped would that not cause an issue disengaging the clutch and you would feel that with increased pressure from the pedal.

I see where you're coming from with the fluid return though.

Maybe sticking pressure plates or thrust bearing causing issues?
Only showing up in with due to the torque of engine?

I am baseing this on a cock up I made years ago with a car I changed a wheel and like a arse I put jack under a brake pipe and crushed it
brakes worked fine and felt no different when applied but where slow to realise

 

[Silver-Fox]

I am baseing this on a cock up I made years ago with a car I changed a wheel and like a arse I put jack under a brake pipe and crushed it
brakes worked fine and felt no different when applied but where slow to realise

Yeah see where you're coming from but with the brakes you have another three to help stop you.

With the clutch its just the one.

Not trying to start an argument just thinking out loud and trying to be logical

I know logical and me arnt bed fellows

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[Lofty1]

It is not commen but both master cylinder and slave cylinder can cause slip normally you can feel it on the pedal as it slowly looses the free play also a flexible hose can cause this DAFs used to do this to the extent that if we renewed a clutch we changed both cylinders as well

 

[Silver-Fox]

It is not commen but both master cylinder and slave cylinder can cause slip normally you can feel it on the pedal as it slowly looses the free play also a flexible hose can cause this DAFs used to do this to the extent that if we renewed a clutch we changed both cylinders as well

Ya learn something new everyday

In my yuff all the clutches i did was down to the plates or bearings being nfg and or worn

Did one where the owner used to rest his left foot on the clutch pedal as he had a hip issue

Any master/slave cylinder issues you couldn't get the pressure up to change gear

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Assuming it worked fine after the accident damage repairs it was probably at the end of its service life at 70k.
I would be thinking that the replacement is either faulty or of inferior quality. Either way it needs to be taken out and checked.
Unless you know and trust the garage that did the work I would insist on being there when it comes out to see exactly what was fitted.
Unfortunately clutch problems are very easy to seem to be repaired without fitting all of the parts that should be and therefore can be a cash cow to the unscrupulous.
Hopefully you garage is completely honest and will get to the bottom of the problem quickly.

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[Lofty1]

Ya learn something new everyday

In my yuff all the clutches i did was down to the plates or bearings being nfg and or worn

Did one where the owner used to rest his left foot on the clutch pedal as he had a hip issue

Any master/slave cylinder issues you couldn't get the pressure up to change gear

In fact the opposite the back pressure diss engaged the clutch slightly leading to slip also had cases were the breathers were blocked causing loss of pedal pressure

 

[Larby]

Wrong friction plate, friction plate fitted wrong way around, splines dirty or damaged.
It is important to compare new and old. My sons have a garage, they have been caught out by similar looking but wrong components and they buy and fit genuine parts.

 

[Silver-Fox]

In fact the opposite the back pressure diss engaged the clutch slightly leading to slip also had cases were the breathers were blocked causing loss of pedal pressure

Are we talking HGV here out of interest.
All my dealings were via friends cars doing cobbles on the weekends to supplement my p**s poor wages as an engineering apprentice

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[SuperMike]

Unless you know and trust the garage that did the work I would insist on being there when it comes out to see exactly what was fitted.
Unfortunately clutch problems are very easy to seem to be repaired without fitting all of the parts that should be and therefore can be a cash cow to the unscrupulous.

Indeed. Whenever anything is done, I always ask for and expect to be given any old part that has been replaced. Me cynical never ........

 

[Peter & Elaine]

thanks to all for the advise I'll be taking it back tomorrow morning fingers and toes crossed he'll fix it before the weekend

What ever way it turns out please post up what happens just out of interest please
Good luck with it

 

[Lofty1]

Y

Are we talking HGV here out of interest.
All my dealings were via friends cars doing cobbles on the weekends to supplement my p**s poor wages as an engineering apprentice

Yes both Hgv and vans to often clutchs burn out due to one or both cylinders not releasing the full pressure building up until the plate slips .Ps I started as an apprentice at £1 10 6d a week but then a pint was only 1s6d

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