Cheaper gas? At £500 a loaf? (1 Viewer)

[Pernickety]

Hello all.

Had my head stuck inside cupboard measurements, 3D layout plans and foam insulation all week with one day off for good behaviour...to read up on gas .

One of the early things I promised myself in this self-build van that hasn't been built yet (mostly because it hasn't been bought yet) was a bread oven.

I do love fresh, home-baked, crusted and dusted wholemeal, not the stuff that comes out of bread machines, but straight out of the oven.

So my question is, is gas my only option for seriously wholemeal loaves? Don't want anything that runs off the back of diesel heaters and the baking is going to be almost entirely off-grid, which means no hook-ups and only solar for energy.
Regular hob cooking will be a mix of rocket stoves outside and some form of gas as a backup for rainy days.

Had been assuming something simple like a small Calor 907 bottle but I'm guessing one of those might not stretch to many 40 minute baking sessions?

Space is very tight, room for one 907 at most in the current layout, and then there's the higher cost of Calor for full-timing, which seems to lead to LPG with an underslung tank. No way I can fit re-fillables in.
So I called a couple of gas tank installers and...wait for it...£750+ for fitting as of spring 2018. My preferred van can only take a 20 litre LPG tank max, which means 16 litres of usable LPG.
Add on £200 for a decent oven to house me two wee 3lb bread tins, unless I can find a second hand one that isn't too grubby.

I make that £500 each for the first two loaves. Any bidders? And sorry but yer gonna have to bl..dy well toast 'em yourself.

So, has anyone come across other another option or does it have to be gas?



p.s. Oh, and that £800? It wasn't the only shock this week. I had no idea that decent fridges cost so much; £600-700 for a Waeco that'll run off solar, which could end up being more than the solar itself will cost.

You know I'm not entirely sure you guys warned me just how much fun this was going to be. No wonder you were all asking for my pin number last week.

Andy.

 

[old-mo]

So, has anyone come across other another option or does it have to be gas?

"Asda"............ £1-05 for fresh Bloomer...

Sorry, I`ll get me coat...

 

[TheBig1]

off grid lpg is the only viable option other than a generator and a small worktop model oven. underslung tanks come up on ebay second hand occasionally. as do ovens. caravan breakers are an excellent source of such items along with fridges and heaters

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pernickety]

"Asda"............ £1-05 for fresh Bloomer...

Sorry, I`ll get me coat...

An don't come back in the morning unless it's hot n toasted!

underslung tanks come up on ebay second hand occasionally. as do ovens. caravan breakers are an excellent source of such items along with fridges and heaters

Gas is the one thing I don't fancy fitting myself, scarier than electrics.

 

[Odd job]

Had been assuming something simple like a small Calor 907 bottle b

Have you thought of a calor cylinder outside the van like the gippo's?

 

[suavecarve]

500 quid for a loaf and you consider toasting it !!!!
That's like pouring lemonade into a real ale.
Lpg with underslung and buy your bread from a proper baker or any boulangerie

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wissel]

As you're planning on living in your van, I'd say bend over and pay for the underslung gas tank.

Regarding the fridge, do you need a freezer box? If you're planning on a compressor fridge then one without an ice box runs should use far less 12v power.

We found we hardly used our ice box in last van, so this time going fridge only.

 

[Pernickety]

Have you thought of a calor cylinder outside the van like the gippo's?

Hmm, interesting idea, but I don't know how that would work with me being on the move all the time. And where is it stored? On the outside somewhere? Wouldn't that look a bit odd, and would it be safe?

500 quid for a loaf and you consider toasting it !!!!
That's like pouring lemonade into a real ale.
Lpg with underslung and buy your bread from a proper baker or any boulangerie

Apologies to all 'proper bakers' or boulangerie's but most bread I've bought isn't a patch on ma wee wholemeal loaves

 

[scotjimland]

So, has anyone come across other another option or does it have to be gas?

I have baked our own bread for years. When we were full time we didn't have an oven so I bought a Panasonic bread maker.. run off EHU, generator or indeed a 1kw inverter if you have a decent sized battery bank.. .. If I recall correctly they are 550 watt

It's not as good a 'proper' home made bread, but a hundred times better than anything off-the-shelf from a supermarket.. it still gets used very occasionally when I don't have time to make a proper loaf..

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pernickety]

As you're planning on living in your van, I'd say bend over and pay for the underslung gas tank.

It's staring to look that way Wissel.

Regarding the fridge, do you need a freezer box? If you're planning on a compressor fridge then one without an ice box runs should use far less 12v power.

No intention of using the freezer so that's interesting. Trouble is I just don't know how much juice different fridges consume and don't want to fork out half a hefty sum for something that curdles me milk on the Med. Maybe I need to leave space for one of those chest compressors but start off with something cheap and second hand and put up with the curdling until I learn what there is to be learned about fridges?

Andy

 

[Pernickety]

a hundred times better than anything off-the-shelf from a supermarket.

Haven't worked out how groups work yet, too busy budgeting n planning. There may come a time though.

 

[Wissel]

It's staring to look that way Wissel.

No intention of using the freezer so that's interesting. Trouble is I just don't know how much juice different fridges consume and don't want to fork out half a hefty sum for something that curdles me milk on the Med.

Andy

Compressor fridges are usually regarded as being better at keeping food cool in warmer climates than 3 way fridges.

Regarding the lower power consumption of a fridge only model, probably worth watching this video. It's boring as hell, but shows the power consumption of different compressor models, with and without a freezer, quite well:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Eddystone]

As you say, a bit long winded. Several variables. What wasn't mentioned (as far as I remember) was the capacity of each but they look about the same.
It certainly brings the question of needing a freeze box into the picture especially if wanting to be off grid with solar.

 

[CazPaul]

Are you sure you can only get that size tank underneath, surely if not bought or built yet you could get bigger than that underneath. Positioning water tanks etc will get you more than a 20 litre tank I think.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Compressor fridges are usually regarded as being better at keeping food cool in warmer climates than 3 way fridges.

Regarding the lower power consumption of a fridge only model, probably worth watching this video. It's boring as hell, but shows the power consumption of different compressor models, with and without a freezer, quite well:

Was he saying the 230v compressors are more efficient than the 12vdc ones?

I know from experience having our compressor box set to -10 they use a lot more power than when in fridge mode.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wissel]

Was he saying the 230v compressors are more efficient than the 12vdc ones?

I know from experience having our compressor box set to -10 they use a lot more power than when in fridge mode.

I think the point Mr. Sterling was trying to make, is that with one of his efficient inverters a 240v compressor fridge was quite a viable option.

What he definitely showed by having two fridges (one with an ice box and one without) both the same spec with the same compressor, was the fridge only model used around half the power.

That was enough for me to look for a fridge only model. I never use the ice box anyway

 

[Odd job]

Hmm, interesting idea, but I don't know how that would work with me being on the move all the time. And where is it stored? On the outside somewhere? Wouldn't that look a bit odd, and would it be safe?

Have to put it inside for travel then outside when in use. Run a hose from the bottle to the van. Not how you are supposed to do it but it is what the travelers do!

 

[jockaneezer]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coleman-...182659767089?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[CazPaul]

I still think gas is your best bet but you need more than 16 litres useable

 

[Pernickety]

Are you sure you can only get that size tank underneath, surely if not bought or built yet you could get bigger than that underneath. Positioning water tanks etc will get you more than a 20 litre tank I think.

That's what Autogas Thirsk have said for a Renault Master, and with chopping off a bit of a cross member too. Not certain the van will be a Renault, mind you but it is ahead of the pack at the moment.

@Wissel great info on fridges, cheers. Digesting.

 

[DBK]

20l is fine if you are only using it for cooking and the 'fridge. Our heating system is diesel and we get by with a smallish gas tank but if your heating system is gas as well you may need to fill up more often than you would wish.
But typical MH ovens are not brilliant for bread making. Their heat is very uneven so you will have to keep turning the loaf around assuming the oven even reaches the temperature you want.
You can make bread in them, we have, but it wont win any prizes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[CazPaul]

That's what Autogas Thirsk have said for a Renault Master, and with chopping off a bit of a cross member too. Not certain the van will be a Renault, mind you but it is ahead of the pack at the moment.

@Wissel great info on fridges, cheers. Digesting.

I would have thought more but not familiar with Master van, you could get bespoke water tanks made in different shapes etc to enable a bigger tank. Why can't the tank go between the cross members, is the fresh going to be inside or underneath?

 

[Pernickety]

20l is fine if you are only using it for cooking and the 'fridge.

Fridge will be 12v, possibly solar, heating will be a wood burner and quite a bit of cooking that way too (outside on dry days), so apart from the bread, gas usage should be low

I would have thought more but not familiar with Master van, you could get bespoke water tanks made in different shapes etc to enable a bigger tank. Why can't the tank go between the cross members, is the fresh going to be inside or underneath?

Haven't even got to water tanks yet No prior experience here so all I know is what Autogas have said. Tried Rhino installs too, he reckons it might be guesswork on the day as to feasibility and tank size.

 

[BwB]

A small household fridge running 240vac from and inverter (via batteries and solar) might be an option for you. Know several self build motorhomers with this set up. If you’re having solar anyway then cost saving could be huge over a 12vdc product.

It took a few attempts to get right but I’ve cooked some lovely loaves on my Cobb. Might be an option for you as most caravan ovens I’ve had have been difficult to get consistent results and I wouldn’t bother with one now.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DBK]

Fridge will be 12v, possibly solar, heating will be a wood burner and quite a bit of cooking that way too (outside on dry days)...

Then a 20l gas tank will be fine I think. Obviously bigger is better but you should last a couple of months unless you are baking commercially.

 

[Pernickety]

A small household fridge running 240vac from and inverter (via batteries and solar) might be an option for you. Know several self build motorhomers with this set up. If you’re having solar anyway then cost saving could be huge over a 12vdc product.

Interesting thought. Haven't got to the bit where I have to add up all me watts, amps, inverters n batteries yet.

It took a few attempts to get right but I’ve cooked some lovely loaves on my Cobb. Might be an option for you as most caravan ovens I’ve had have been difficult to get consistent results and I wouldn’t bother with one now.

I'll try not to look too blank when I ask, A Cobb? Er, what's one of those?

you should last a couple of months unless you are baking commercially.

Ah, a customer? I might be able to discount the initial £500 loaf slightly. Finest artisan quality of course (with a few turns during cooking).

 

[DBK]

A Cobb is a small charcoal BBQ - think very small pizza oven. But I can see how it would work for baking. We have one.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pernickety]

Ahhh, a Cobb, he said knowledgeably (after a sneaky search). I find myself educated, thank you both. Looks a bit hit n miss; but then all good experiments are perhaps?

 

[MisterB]

if you go for a high top van, could you utilise the additional head room to create a false floor to house your water tanks, gas tank etc? if youre going for a self build panel van from scratch, why not go for slide outs aswell ..... get one with two side doors on opposite sides if possible and use one of them as a slide out or utilise the back doors as a slide out from the back.

 

[jockaneezer]

If you're putting a wood burner in anyway, it's just a step up to one of these, bread and hot water sorted !