Charging leisure batteries from carports

[EdRedBird]

Anyone attempted/ done this succesfully

 

[Guigsy]

Car chargers run massive currents with huge voltages, and I think they are DC? I think there's some signalling done to negotiate change rates.

I'm fairly sure it's not just a case of wiring in a different plug.

 

[autorouter]

Working on it, but not successful so far. I'm working on a Type 2 plug. This can carry normal single-phase 240V mains, up to 80A, and 3-phase mains up to 80A. It doesn't have High Voltage DC terminals, so no DC problems. It's not actually a 'charger', which converts 240V AC to DC voltage suitable for battery charging. It's just a glorified hookup post. The charger is in the vehicle.

It has two extra signal wires (pilot wires) called Communication Pilot (CP) and Proximity Pilot (PP). They prevent any connection until the charge point and vehicle are safely connected, and both sides know what power is available, what power can be used, and how thick the connection cable is. Only then does the power switch on.

I can imagine in the future many people will fill up their lithium batteries from charge points, like we fill up LPG tanks at filling stations.

 

[Guigsy]

The other issue is your onboard AC charger is probably only a few amps. It's designed to be plugged in on a site for a few hours and not blow the poor campsite electrics.

So even if a car charger could be plugged in, most vans would need to be parked there for a few hours to make progress... which is going to annoy a bunch of electric car drivers unless it was only ever a slow charger.

 

[autorouter]

You'd want lithium batteries and a substantial charger, to charge as quickly as possible. My charger is 48V 35A, equivalent to 140A at 12V. It would take about 4 hours to charge my leisure batteries. It's only 7A (1700W) from the charge point, which is near the minimum it can register. The smallest charge point is 3.6kW, and the standard (single phase) would be 7.2kW.

If this became popular, more substantial chargers would become available. They are already fitted in standard electric vehicles. I'm thinking of a battery bank like this

A 14,500wh battery we built

This is a 48v LifePO4 battery built with 16 304ah cells. Weighs just over 100Kg. It‘s the equivalent of around 22 100ah lead acid batteries. A bit like a 1200ah 12v battery. Built in a specific configuration to fit in his locker. It has a 200A BMS so can power a 15Kw inverter as long as the...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

which would charge in a couple of hours from a 7.2kW charger.

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[Wack]

It irritates me if somebody is hogging the pump while they do some shopping , I'd be really annoyed if I got to a charge point with an EV on 5% and somebody was charging their leisure batteries on it.

 

[autorouter]

It irritates me if somebody is hogging the pump while they do some shopping

On one occasion, I filled up with fuel, then drove to a parking space round the back of the building so I could do some shopping and grab a coffee. As I walked in the shop, the manager was phoning the police to report a drive-away fuel theft. Now, I hog the pump if I want to do any shopping.

I'd be really annoyed if I got to a charge point with an EV on 5% and somebody was charging their leisure batteries on it.

I can understand that. Not many people have even heard of 'Mode 3 (Simplified)' charging.

 

[EdRedBird]

It irritates me if somebody is hogging the pump while they do some shopping , I'd be really annoyed if I got to a charge point with an EV on 5% and somebody was charging their leisure batteries on it.

Yeah but those green electric drivers annoy me too as the holier than thou attitude with a more poluting vehicle as the drivers do not understand the waste of discarding an old vehicle, fabrication of a new vehicle life cycle of batteries, and the way electricity is rated.
(On top of that my house electricity is going through the roof while some crusty woolysocks get free lecky in the street)

How miles would a car drive on the actual fuel vs the electricity being generated ...

 

[Guigsy]

How miles would a car drive on the actual fuel vs the electricity being generated ...

Running fossil fuels through a power station and then to an EV wastes about half the energy compared to burning it in a combustion engine. And EVs can use power from renewable sources too.

 

[Richard n Ann]

This is the only solution I've seen so far, but even this needs manufacturing of course..

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[EdRedBird]

Running fossil fuels through a power station and then to an EV wastes about half the energy compared to burning it in a combustion engine. And EVs can use power from renewable sources too.

Ah that explains why all the prices with our renewable solar and wind energy has gone up. Lets not forget WHERE the electricity comes from especially during the Irish/UK winters when there is even less sun than our famous summers ...And We still have no enviromentally friendly way to store the surplusses during our "heatwaves"
People are kidding themselves with electric cars being enviomentally friendly and they gladly ignore the waste and polution of theior old deiscarded vehicle and the polution that battery manufacturing and disposal costs... but i guess thats a problem for the next generation?)

 

[Guigsy]

Ah that explains why all the prices with our renewable solar and wind energy has gone up. Lets not forget WHERE the electricity comes from especially during the Irish/UK winters when there is even less sun than our famous summers ...And We still have no enviromentally friendly way to store the surplusses during our "heatwaves"
People are kidding themselves with electric cars being enviomentally friendly and they gladly ignore the waste and polution of theior old deiscarded vehicle and the polution that battery manufacturing and disposal costs... but i guess thats a problem for the next generation?)

No. The price has gone up because the UK market legally ties it to the price of fossil fuel electric.

The maths has been done many times. Depending on the conditions, if you do about 15k per year, it's more environmentally friendly to buy an EV with it's huge lithium battery, than it is to continue to burn fossil fuels. Even if the majority of your electricity comes from fossil fuels. Just because ICEs waste so much energy in heat.

 

[gus-lopez]

It irritates me if somebody is hogging the pump while they do some shopping , I'd be really annoyed if I got to a charge point with an EV on 5% and somebody was charging their leisure batteries on it.

The 2 x public & 4 x taxi ev charging points opposite the daughter's house are parking bays, 1hr maximum & no return for 2 hours or £100fine. Residents & local councillors are now asking for autofines via cameras due to the ongoing problems, noise ,radios,talking, recovery trucks unloading day/night, main dealers ( up the road) leaving tat on them for 8 hours +,etc .etc

 

[EdRedBird]

No. The price has gone up because the UK market legally ties it to the price of fossil fuel electric.

The maths has been done many times. Depending on the conditions, if you do about 15k per year, it's more environmentally friendly to buy an EV with it's huge lithium battery, than it is to continue to burn fossil fuels. Even if the majority of your electricity comes from fossil fuels. Just because ICEs waste so much energy in heat.

It is not as that study ignore various factors: the waste and polution caused by a discarded functional vehicle. (Like your granny used to say use up the old first, dont waste)
UNTIL the majority of the electricity is generated sustainability (and we are far from that, studies exlude the return of fabricating one of them birdblenders and maintenance) the waste of energy generating the electricity for that 15K ... would have delivered more mileage used directly.
Fundamental law of physics simplified Action = Reaction + heat ...

Now Nuclear would be an option , hydrogen would be (And if reliable storable the way to deal with surplus electicity : Generate hydrogen and burn it off when needed)

There is no exchange of energy without loss of energy.... Replacing one fuel by use of another fuel is ineficient

 

[Guigsy]

It is not as that study ignore various factors: the waste and polution caused by a discarded functional vehicle. (Like your granny used to say use up the old first, dont waste)
UNTIL the majority of the electricity is generated sustainability (and we are far from that, studies exlude the return of fabricating one of them birdblenders and maintenance) the waste of energy generating the electricity for that 15K ... would have delivered more mileage used directly.
Fundamental law of physics simplified Action = Reaction + heat ...

Now Nuclear would be an option , hydrogen would be (And if reliable storable the way to deal with surplus electicity : Generate hydrogen and burn it off when needed)

There is no exchange of energy without loss of energy.... Replacing one fuel by use of another fuel is ineficient

Yes. The studies do include the impact of building the new car Vs keeping the old one. The environmental payback period is 2-3 years if you do a reasonable annual mileage.

And most of the studies are from the US where electricity generation is largely from coal and oil. As more renewables come on line, the payback period gets shorter because EVs are using even less fossil fuels per mile.

ICE losses over half the energy in the fuel as heat. Power stations are much more efficient and EVs, including charging the batteries manage far better efficiency. You can literally go twice as far on a litre of crude if you use it in an EV.

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[autorouter]

It is not as that study ignore various factors: the waste and polution caused by a discarded functional vehicle.

For decades many people changed their car every year or two, and that for some reason was 'good for the economy'. Now people are simply changing again, but to electric vehicles. All of a sudden it's hugely polluting to do this. Now who might be behind all the items in the news and social media that are pushing this viewpoint, I ask myself...

 

[Wack]

The 2 x public & 4 x taxi ev charging points opposite the daughter's house are parking bays, 1hr maximum & no return for 2 hours or £100fine. Residents & local councillors are now asking for autofines via cameras due to the ongoing problems, noise ,radios,talking, recovery trucks unloading day/night, main dealers ( up the road) leaving tat on them for 8 hours +,etc .etc

I saw pictures of an electric truck yesterday , no idea where they're going to charge that up , imagine getting to a charger and finding it across 8 bays

 

[gus-lopez]

I saw pictures of an electric truck yesterday , no idea where they're going to charge that up , imagine getting to a charger and finding it across 8 bays

Whilst on you tube I come across various electric vehicle threads & have yet to find one that actually encourages them, even from the aficianados? One was the new FordF150 lightning truck. All good when running around on its own But it wasn't much cheaer charging against . Another had it tested towing a trailer against a conventional truck with the same trailer. supposed rnge dropped from 480 miles to 289 miles , all auto done when the trailer plug goes in & exactly the same as on the conventionally fueled one.
It actually only managed 89 miles before it was out of charge. Conventional had barely used 1/4 tank , Also it was the same problem the Target cap park blocked off with 50' of truck & trailer .Or did you drop trailer & charge truck.
Another one was the angst faced when turning off to chharge. how many using them? how many waiting? are they working? Then finding 2 only with 3 different charging types but one only working on 1 of them. he then rang to report it & they rebooted it remotely . When he asked how long since it was last used it turned out to have been out of action for 2 weeks? Why can't they spot this & reboot without being asked?
The noise from the cooling systems/fans on the 3 charging stations opposite my daughter's is akin to parking next to a fridge lorry, & why the council receive regular complaints.

 

[autorouter]

Car chargers run massive currents with huge voltages, and I think they are DC?

Some charge points, like the one at my local Lidl, have 3 different sockets/charging leads. Type 2, CCS and CHAdeMO.
Type 2 is AC only, either 240V single phase like normal house mains, or 3-phase. No DC.
CCS = Combined Charging System, has big socket that has a Type 2 socket plus two big DC pins below it. It does AC or DC, or both.
CHAdeMO has DC only, no AC.

Type 2 is popular throughout Europe. Type 1, a lower power AC socket, is popular in USA. Adapters for Type1 to Type2
are available.

 

[Wack]

Whilst on you tube I come across various electric vehicle threads & have yet to find one that actually encourages them, even from the aficianados? One was the new FordF150 lightning truck. All good when running around on its own But it wasn't much cheaer charging against . Another had it tested towing a trailer against a conventional truck with the same trailer. supposed rnge dropped from 480 miles to 289 miles , all auto done when the trailer plug goes in & exactly the same as on the conventionally fueled one.
It actually only managed 89 miles before it was out of charge. Conventional had barely used 1/4 tank , Also it was the same problem the Target cap park blocked off with 50' of truck & trailer .Or did you drop trailer & charge truck.
Another one was the angst faced when turning off to chharge. how many using them? how many waiting? are they working? Then finding 2 only with 3 different charging types but one only working on 1 of them. he then rang to report it & they rebooted it remotely . When he asked how long since it was last used it turned out to have been out of action for 2 weeks? Why can't they spot this & reboot without being asked?
The noise from the cooling systems/fans on the 3 charging stations opposite my daughter's is akin to parking next to a fridge lorry, & why the council receive regular complaints.

There's a couple on tiktok that bought an electric ducato to convert into a motorhome , 6 months old, they charged it on a fast charger and it died , knackered

Fiat collected it , had it over 3 months and couldn't find anything wrong with it so the manufacturers of the electric conversion tested everything again and found a fault with the battery

New battery ffitted and they've just got it back , whole summer lost

Would you have any confidence in it , I wouldn't

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[autorouter]

On this trip have been trying out an adapter box I made. It has a 'Type 2' connection (also called a Mennekes connection) as an input. The output is a standard 3-pin 13A socket. I use a standard Type 2 to Type 2 connection cable to the charge point.

My battery charger takes less than 2kW, so is below the minimum (3.5kW) for this EV charge point. There is no way it will demand more power than any charge point can give. So the communication protocol can be much simpler than in a vehicle with a high-power charger.

The box output goes via a 13A plug-to-blue socket adapter straight into the EHU inlet. It works fine if plugged in in the correct sequence, and the activation switch is switched on. It contains some simple, cheap electronics. Obviously you need an app on your phone to confirm the connection and pay if it's not free.

I have tried this on at least two occasions, in a Tesco car park (free) and another set of charge points (paid). It took over an hour from about 60% to full. No other EVs came anywhere near, so I was not blocking anyone from charging.

The main issue seems to be that the marked bays at the EV charge point are car-sized, so you have to be a bit creative parking a
7m Hymer.

The next step is to fit the Type 2 socket on the side of the MH, using a standard Hymer mains inlet point, so it matches the existing EHU inlet. I have a manual changeover switch to switch between the two inputs, much like you would do for a generator input.

 

[gus-lopez]

There's a couple on tiktok that bought an electric ducato to convert into a motorhome , 6 months old, they charged it on a fast charger and it died , knackered

Fiat collected it , had it over 3 months and couldn't find anything wrong with it so the manufacturers of the electric conversion tested everything again and found a fault with the battery

New battery ffitted and they've just got it back , whole summer lost

Would you have any confidence in it , I wouldn't

Saw another last night same vehicle F150 although with the basic battery & still supposed to tow 3,5Tonnes. Hooked up an aluminium trailer 700kgs & ran empty to collect a model T.
After hooking trailer he had 280miles range . The intention was 2 trips each way 1st to collect a 700kg model T then 2nd a 3 tonne suv.Travelling frugally & economically when he got there the remaining range was 140 miles ,I think .
When he got back home the remaining range was 14 miles.
So 70 miles journey & basically flat.

 

[Wack]

EVs might work as a car but they'll never work as a van , other than used like a milk float but with amazon written on the side.