Carthago vehicle battery charging issue (1 Viewer)

[Paul Frost]

I have a brand new Carthago C-compactline Integrated 141 (1st Sept) and am having issues with the vehicle battery voltage. A Phantom alarm and tracker is fitted and the phone app shows the voltage of the vehicle battery.

After driving for over an hour the voltage shows 12.9v. Then I plug into electrics on site and steadily the voltage drops to 12.4v after 12 hours. A few times it has gone down to 12.1v after 36 hours without moving. Am I right in thinking that 12.6v is what I should expect to be normal?

I understand that the smart charging system should charge both the leisure and vehicle batteries. I also understand that the alarm/tracker may be causing a parasitic drain on the vehicle battery. Even if the parasitic drain is considerable, surely being hooked up to the mains should be able to cope with that and keep the vehicle battery at 12.6v?

I have also tested the voltage with a multimeter to check if the phone app is accurate, and I get the same voltage readings.
The control panel has a row of led's to show battery state and the leisure one always has 4 green lights when plugged in but the vehicle one only shows 2 green lights.

 

[cmcardle75]

It sounds like the alternator charging is OK. After a long drive, a modern alternator drops to a low float voltage. However, it sounds like (a) the mains charger isn't working at all and (b) there is a large load on the vehicle battery. This could either be a construction fault, or a configuration fault on your panel which might have disabled the charger and placed hab load on the engine battery.

 

[Zepp]

Make sure you switch the media centre off because on some models it can draw power from the engine battery

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[cmcardle75]

It sounds like the alternator charging is OK. After a long drive, a modern alternator drops to a low float voltage. However, it sounds like (a) the mains charger isn't working at all and (b) there is a large load on the vehicle battery. This could either be a construction fault, or a configuration fault on your panel which might have disabled the charger and placed hab load on the engine battery.

Or even a poor design with no mains charging of the engine battery provided for and a large load being applied regardless (such as Zepp's suggestion of your entertainment system).

 

[DBK]

Welcome! Ideally the system should charge the vehicle battery when on EHU and also when the sun is shining if you have solar. There are a number of ways of doing this but the inexpensive Battery Master is widely fitted and does the job well. It shouldn't be expensive to fit if you don't want to do the job yourself.

 

[Minxy]

Have you checked to see if you have a duff battery which isn't holding charge? Many MHs are stood around for a long time and if the cab battery hasn't been maintained it could need replacing.

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[pappajohn]

It's a brand new van.... Return to dealer for them to sort out.

 

[Ninjabob]

With EHU plugged in I would expect the on board charger to start going through its charging cycle to try to work out the batteries current state of charge. That could start off at a voltage of 14 volts or more. Sounds like the charger is not working and the van is running 12v circuits off the battery.

 

[Paul Frost]

I did return it to the dealer and they investigated and said nothing was wrong it.

The user manual says that the built in charger will recharge the vehicle and leisure batteries.

What is the test to find if it's a duff battery and not holding the charge?

Last night I turned off the master battery switch to try and remove the habitation side from any drain. The voltage has been quite steady this morning. I've checked it every hour and it was 12.2v at 7, 8, 9, 10am and went up to 12.3v at 11, 12am and 1pm.

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[cmcardle75]

I did return it to the dealer and they investigated and said nothing was wrong it.

The user manual says that the built in charger will recharge the vehicle and leisure batteries.

If the cab battery is reading less than 13V and the EHU is on and supposed to charge the battery, then it is not working, whatever the dealer says. Make them plug it in and show you > 13.5V on the cab battery. They're just fobbing you off.

 

[Paul Frost]

It's a 380 mile round trip to the dealer, and I live in the Scottish Highands. Hence why I'm trying to troubleshoot it myself for now.

 

[cmcardle75]

It's a 380 mile round trip to the dealer, and I live in the Scottish Highands. Hence why I'm trying to troubleshoot it myself for now.

Plug it in. Check the voltage directly on the engine battery with a multimeter. If it isn't about 13.2V or higher it isn't charging. Whether that is because it doesn't have a mains charger to the engine battery, or the charger is turned off, or the charger is broken or the wiring is dodgy, we can't say without further investigation. However, if it is reading 12.4V, like you say, whilst plugged in, it is definitely not charging.

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[Wagoneer]

There is a switch on the mains charger so you can have it either ON or OFF. I assume yours is ON with a red light showing.

Get yourself a multimeter and check the voltage of the starter and hab batteries. Depending on the battery type, the fully charged resting voltage is anywhere between 12.6v and 13.0v. For the batteries to charge, the charge voltage must be greater than the currently observed resting voltage, otherwise no charge will take place. When on mains charging (or alternator charging) your hab batteries (assume they are gel) should initially be registering 14+ volts.

When on EHU the hab batteries take priority and the starter battery is trickle charged at a max of 2 amps, as stated in the CBE user guide.

By monitoring the voltage of the starter/hab batteries with a multimeter you can observe whether the batteries are being charged on either EHU or via the alternator with the engine running. This should give you sufficient evidence to approach your dealer with the technical facts.

 

[Paul Frost]

I have deliberatly not touched the van today. It's been plugged in but with the habitation battery main isolator switch off, only the alarm and tracker is on. The vehicle battery has stayed stable all day at 12.2v with just 3 hours in the middle at 12.3v.

The vehicle was already booked into the local Fiat Professional garage to fit a new emissions sensor that was triggering the orange engine light. I just spoke to them about the battery to see if they could test it more fully, and the response was that the battery is quite likely to be duff, as the base vehicle has probably been sitting around for a long time before it got built up to a motorhome. I know the vehicle has been in stock at the dealer since at least March, as we saw it on the website but couldn't go and see it due to Covid restrictions. So perhaps the battery had been allowed to drop too low whilst it's been sitting on the forecourt. The good news is that the Fiat garage said it would order a new battery under warranty.

I hadn't thought about the fact that the vehicle battery would be a Fiat thing rather than the motorhome dealers responsibility.

 

[mitzimad]

your contract is with the dealer they are responsible for it all, however they will only throw the problem back to fiats

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[pappajohn]

The voltage has been quite steady this morning. I've checked it every hour and it was 12.2v at 7, 8, 9, 10am and went up to 12.3v at 11, 12am and 1pm.

That voltage indicates a (technically) flat battery.
A fully charged battery should be 12.6v/12.7v with no solar or mains charge input for an hour.

 

[cmcardle75]

Whether the battery is duff or not (suspect not), it is NOT being charged by the mains. Even a pretty knackered battery would show 13V+ when being charged.

 

[Paul Frost]

It's still showing 12.2v at 9pm
Is there any easy test I can do to check if the charger is sending power to the vehicle battery?
Attached is a photo of the battery connections.

The on/off switch on the charger in the garage is glowing red.
The leisure/habitation battery shows a full charge on the control panel, which I would think indicated that the charger is charging that battery. It's very hard to get to it to stick the multimeter on it, it's in the underfloor void and requires you to slide in a side door hatch and crawl in.

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[cmcardle75]

It's still showing 12.2v at 9pm
Is there any easy test I can do to check if the charger is sending power to the vehicle battery?
Attached is a photo of the battery connections.View attachment 427970
The on/off switch on the charger in the garage is glowing red.
The leisure/habitation battery shows a full charge on the control panel, which I would think indicated that the charger is charging that battery. It's very hard to get to it to stick the multimeter on it, it's in the underfloor void and requires you to slide in a side door hatch and crawl in.

Yes, there is. You've done it already. Not a shred of electricity is being sent to the battery. The charger is completely non functional, if it even exists at all.

 

[Minxy]

Have you checked to see if you have a duff battery which isn't holding charge? Many MHs are stood around for a long time and if the cab battery hasn't been maintained it could need replacing.

The vehicle was already booked into the local Fiat Professional garage to fit a new emissions sensor that was triggering the orange engine light. I just spoke to them about the battery to see if they could test it more fully, and the response was that the battery is quite likely to be duff, as the base vehicle has probably been sitting around for a long time before it got built up to a motorhome.

I do SOOOOOOOO love it when a 'lady' outdoes the more 'experienced' men on here ... yes, I am smirking from ear to ear and sticking my tongue out at you all!

Of course there could be something else as well as a duff battery ...

 

[Minxy]

I hadn't thought about the fact that the vehicle battery would be a Fiat thing rather than the motorhome dealers responsibility.

We've often gone direct to Fiat for stuff rather than through our supplying dealer, it helps that we have a Fiat commercial garage locally.

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[andy63]

It does appear that your vehicle battery isn't getting a charge when on ehu..
Its been pointed out that when your hab batteries are charged to a certain voltage a maintenance charge should be delivered to the start battery..that vehicle battery charging voltage should be around .6v or so lower than the hab battery voltage..
I'm not sure what model your cbe psu is or whether it uses the two main relays that are found in many cbe systems... if it does one of them will be connected to the vehicle battery and the housing will have a 50 amp fuse and also a smaller 5a fuse in it..check to see if the 5a fuse is blown..
If your system hasn't those relays then it could be a fault on the cbe board
Andy..

 

[pappajohn]

Is there any easy test I can do to check if the charger is sending power to the vehicle battery?

Use a multimeter on the battery terminals.. If its charging on hookup or solar it will show 13v plus.
Forget all the onboard gauges and meters. . It's the only accurate way of knowing.

 

[DBK]

It's still showing 12.2v at 9pm
Is there any easy test I can do to check if the charger is sending power to the vehicle battery?
Attached is a photo of the battery connections.View attachment 427970
The on/off switch on the charger in the garage is glowing red.
The leisure/habitation battery shows a full charge on the control panel, which I would think indicated that the charger is charging that battery. It's very hard to get to it to stick the multimeter on it, it's in the underfloor void and requires you to slide in a side door hatch and crawl in.

You could disconnect the fuse assembly from the battery by slackening the nut on the terminal clamp - top right of the green circle in your photo. Then measure the current going into the battery. If the charger is working but the battery is duff then expect to see 10+ amps going in. My guess is the charger isn't working - it might just be a fuse blown - but you won't know without testing things. But I agree with the others, if the charger was working you should see a higher voltage. Try measuring this first with EHU turned on and off. If the voltage doesn't change then the charger is having a bad hair day.

The risk is what happens when you disconnect the battery. Expect any alarm to go off and the radio might need a code to restart but the normal Fiat radio shouldn't.

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[Clarky]

I think you need to fit a Battery Master.
We found the cab battery of our new Carthago was dropping quickly when we first bought it........over 5 years ago.
A Battery Master (approx £50 plus fitting) cured the problem for good.
Also, as advised above, watch the media system and switch it off at the control panel as it is usually wired to the cab battery.

Richard.

 

[wigster]

Just an idea on my Hymer with an electroblok not a cbe charger , my cab battery stopped charging on ecu . It turned out to be a ten amp fuse close to the cab battery it probably isnt the same but worth a look

 

[Wagoneer]

I think you need to fit a Battery Master.
We found the cab battery of our new Carthago was dropping quickly when we first bought it........over 5 years ago.
A Battery Master (approx £50 plus fitting) cured the problem for good.
Also, as advised above, watch the media system and switch it off at the control panel as it is usually wired to the cab battery.

Richard.

A Battery Master is primarily used with solar. The OP hasn't mentioned he has solar.

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[eddie]

It’s never a good idea to use a Battery Master to ‘mask’ a problem.

If you want to start to unplug things, and If you worried about the security devices draining the engine battery, unplug it!

It’s probably plugged into you on board diagnostics port (OBDP) on your Fiat fuse board anyway which the Fiat guys will need to use to plug in their diagnostics equipment to anyway when they do the Sensor

Have you checked the App is accurate? That would be my first check once I knew 100% the battery was OK

Tyres and engine battery are usually the oldest part of a chassis, and that before the converter gets their hands on it.

 

[Paul Frost]

Still at 12.17v, the leisure battery is at 13.40v (both tested with multimeter).
No solar panels fitted.

I'm not sure what model your cbe psu is or whether it uses the two main relays that are found in many cbe systems... if it does one of them will be connected to the vehicle battery and the housing will have a 50 amp fuse and also a smaller 5a fuse in it..check to see if the 5a fuse is blown..
If your system hasn't those relays then it could be a fault on the cbe board
Andy..

I can't see a 50 amp fuse. Attached are more photos. In the battery connections one you can see a green fuse (top), and a close up of it to show it's 30.

It does look likely that the problem may be the charger.

I'm hesitant to just start pulling fuses to test. But if that is the best way then should I disconnect the hook up before pulling them or doesn't it matter?

I'm also thinking if I should go for a drive to see what voltage I can get the vehicle battery up to and then see how long it holds that for.

 

[Paul Frost]

Have you checked the App is accurate? That would be my first check once I knew 100% the battery was OK

The multimeter gives the same reading as the app every time I've compared them.

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