Carthago dangerous design fault.

[jako999]

 

[jako999]

Hi all
This is really for Carthago owners but I’m sure there’s other brands out there that are the same. Our current van is just coming up to 3 years old.
I unplugged the van as I was going to move it, I went to put the step out on the van and it didn’t work so I pullEd my self up and in and the control display was just flickering, I thought may be the battery was flat which would strange as I have always left all my vans plugged in, but I plugged it back in and left it over night just in case. Day two was the same I thought great a set of shot batteries after only a few season. After opening the battery box I was horrified at what I found.
Basically I feel there are two major design faults. First who puts the boiler directly above the batteries and major amperage electrics with not even at the very least has a catch tray, secondly who would install a sealed battery box apart from the top a bit like a bucket with NO DRAIN HOLES below said boiler.
I worked out what happened at some point last year (the system was drained down for the winter last November) the boiler started to drip out of the hot water side and filled the battery box which must have stood in there for months.
The dealer said it was out of warranty and it missed its service last year ”I wonder why“ after all we all able to go every where all year and when we were you couldn’t get booked in, more to the point a service would never have found this fault, anyway they passed the photos on to Carthago for good will. Well guess what after a month they’ve never responded. As it is I’ve just had it all sorted my self after all we will all be using the vans again soon.

In my mind a terrible design, could have easily caused a fire, very poor of Carthago so much so the dealers have lost a 150k sale as we are changing manufacture for the next van, such a shame.

Please check yours and add some drainage holes at the very least.

Thanks for reading

 

[Lenny HB]

Which model is it as your profile says you have an N & B?

 

[jako999]

Sorry it’s a chic i5 but I know there are many models designed like this.

 

[Lenny HB]

Had the boiler split or was it just a connection that leaked?

In our Hymer the boiler is next to one of the batteries & there is wiring everywhere, the other 2 batteries are higher up. I think you will find similar design features in all manufacturers vans.
Not good I agree but if they designed the vans taking in every contingency we probably wouldn't be able to afford to buy them.

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[jako999]

The pipe was the problem. It’s made of very hard plastic and i think the jubilee clip came from the pound shop. I’ve never been able to work out why they put the boiler under the fridge let alone over the batterie? Why not just make it another locker and put the batteries under the double floor like our old Niesmann and they were much easier to get to.

 

[Minxy]

The batteries in our Carthago C-Compactline i-138 (2019) are in the centre underfloor storage area, no where near anything else, so it may be that on later models they have changed where they go.

 

[Rob Turner]

Carthago battery location is model dependent. Some are nearside, some are offside. Mine are nearside in the C tourer whereas a friends are offside under the boiler.

 

[TinaLes]

Yes battery boxes/positions vary between different models, some have external access boxes, like ours, some have internal access boxes like the compactline.
I think the top end models have their batteries in the rear garage as they also have nice little extras like invertors/solar chargers.
Luckily our boiler is on the opposite side to the battery box, better than being under the fridge for maintenance.
TBH its not the sort of thing that I would have considered before purchase, but something to think about for future purchases maybe, across all makes & models.
LES

 

[Dorset Diver]

I had no idea that the battery box was so well sealed. Mine are located in exactly the the same way as jako999. I will be checking later today as I have just refreshed the water system ready for our forthcoming release.

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[TinaLes]

jako999 I take on board your comment that its not a great design to put batteries under the boiler, and looking at your pictures is sad, such a mess to clear up.
Can I ask though, did you not Fully Drain the boiler down, both hot & cold by using the boiler drain down tap and leaving it open for expansion, blowing surplus water out by blowing down every tap etc.
I only ask this because, I do my best to get most of the water out the system, leaving all taps open in mid position, blowing hard down every tap, even removing the shower hose, and flushing the toilet until there is no water left.
Did you possibly omit doing any of the above?, its helpful to all to know, and a lesson also.
Thanks.
LES

 

[PJGWiltshire]

I have had water get into my battery box when the seal on the water pressure release valve let go in 2019. We were lucky in so far we were in the van at the time and heard the connected blast off and then the water pump start up. Water pumped out of the top of the boiler and cascaded down into the battery box. It was during the clean up I found out that the battery box had no drain hole. The clean up required me to take both batteries out and that was a real pain. Other than that instance I have had no other issues. I have had non reason to check the area as by being in the van if there was any water escape the pressurised pump system would keep re charging thus giving a warning around possible water escape. On draining down I always take the opportunity to have a look over the boiler whilst I’m on the floor.

 

[TinaLes]

PJGWiltshire I guess you have The ALDE heating system?
I am surprised as I guess you were, that the pressure relief valve was not vented through the floor as it would be in a domestic situation, as I would have thought whether Alde or Truma if its a vent it should be ducted out?
Would it be possible to place a pipe to duct it straight outside, just in case it should happen again.
I would be asking the boiler manufacturer for advice, who knows maybe they have a pipe outlet kit that Carthago couldn't be bothered to fit?
LES

 

[PJGWiltshire]

I have the Trauma 6E. I have three pipes going through the floor area from the front of the boiler top left is the pressure release valve on the floor in front of boiler I have the frost protector valve and then the drain off valve.
I do not have any entry pipes under the boiler or other valves

when my valve blow off it came away from the boiler itself and then the water just pumped straight out from the boiler

 

[jockaneezer]

Maybe the battery box doesnt have drain holes fitted to it because a leak of sulphuric acid would be more damaging than the water leak ?

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[Dorset Diver]

Just had a look at mine and all seems well at present.

 

[TinaLes]

PJGWiltshire Ah so you have the same boiler as us The Truma 6E.
We haven't had the safety valve blow off as yet, but next time I am in the van I will have a look, to see if there is a way of venting it to the outside, although ours is not over the battery bank, still makes sense to see if it can be done.
LES

 

[TinaLes]

Maybe the battery box doesnt have drain holes fitted to it because a leak of sulphuric acid would be more damaging than the water leak ?

I think Carthago fit Gel Batteries as standard, so they should be sealed to stop this happening, fingers crossed.
LES

 

[PJGWiltshire]

PJGWiltshire Ah so you have the same boiler as us The Truma 6E.
We haven't had the safety valve blow off as yet, but next time I am in the van I will have a look, to see if there is a way of venting it to the outside, although ours is not over the battery bank, still makes sense to see if it can be done.
LES

It should not blow off. It was user error on my part. I had reason to change the original valve( that didn’t need changing I then discovered). I replaced it with a compression connector rather than the original push fit self locking type. A week after installing it the valve blow off the boiler. Clearly to much pressure and the compression type was not suitable. I reinstalled the original valve, as I said it was discovered that it was not faulty( my original drip was from the frost valve and I got the outlet pipes underneath the van wrong as all three are channeled next to each other, so I changed the pressure valve instead of the frost valve)
Your push fit valve should give you years of safe use. If the valve activated it just blasts a puff of pressure and should not pump water out. I cannot see why the plastic pipe has not been channeled through the floor to the outside, strange.

 

[Lenny HB]

The pipe was the problem. It’s made of very hard plastic and i think the jubilee clip came from the pound shop. I’ve never been able to work out why they put the boiler under the fridge let alone over the batterie? Why not just make it another locker and put the batteries under the double floor like our old Niesmann and they were much easier to get to.

Probably comes down to designed for sales appeal. When you look at how they have made huge areas under the double fool accessible for storage you just look at it and go "wow". If the problem occurred in 1 in 1000 vans or even 1 in 500 the benefits probably outweigh the risks.

In our Hymer the boiler is mounted on the lower floor but it's under the main lounge sofa and wastes a huge amount of storage space but easy to get at for repairs.
OK in a 3.5t van but in a 4.5t with 1350kg of payload there is not enough space to make use of the payload.
Hymer have finally caught up with their SLC chassis.

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[PJGWiltshire]

Probably comes down to designed for sales appeal. When you look at how they have made huge areas under the double fool accessible for storage you just look at it and go "wow". If the problem occurred in 1 in 1000 vans or even 1 in 500 the benefits probably outweigh the risks.

Too remove the boiler, as ours is under the fridge freezer/oven tower, that needs to come out. That alone is a big awkward job. Then the boiler is easily accessible. Your labour charges are in the main around getting the tower in and out. Speaking to Relience, who carry out my work, he was telling me last year that many boiler engineers will not work on them until the tower is taken out by someone else so it just doubles the cost of a repair

 

[Just smiffy]

You have to commend them on effective hatch seals .....

I feel for you but it looks like it’s been like it for months and the importance of checking and maintaining a van over the winter months should be a priority... especially as it sounds like it may have been on your drive...

 

[pappajohn]

Not exactly dangerous but more bad practice.
It's all 12v so at worst it would flatten your batteries if the battery box filled with water.
You could chuck a battery in a tub of water and all it would do is discharge the battery.

 

[Stealaway]

I would be drilling drain hole right now

 

[two]

When water leaks, it will fall due to gravity but, in my experience, it's not always in the downward direction you might expect. The problem would appear to be the leak rather than the position of the batteries.
Battery (and other equipment) location is limited unless you design the rest of the van around them and that's not likely as most people consider layout to be paramount.
Batteries are heavy, so need to be low and placed to distribute the load as evenly as possible, and preferably towards the front axle.

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[jako999]

The van was fully drained down and an oil filed radiator left switched on through out the winter we go in the van every couple of weeks and it was fine even though it must have sat in water for sometime. All the electrics worked as they should it finally stopped working due to a low voltage which was down to so much rust in the main 125amp fuse holder. I never lift the hatch on the battery compartment as all there is to see is two batteries and this time a swimming pool

 

[two]

I'm admiring the effectiveness of the seal on the door.
But should be more concerned about how the water got there in the first place.

 

[jako999]

slow drip from the hot water pipe in the picture above before the drain down for the winter. The water was probably in there for some months