Car Trailers (1 Viewer)

[Charlie]

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/?gclid=CMbuvefPhcgCFYU_Gwod8ecA8g

Thanks Mike. I have found a 15 plate Xpression with top equipment and just 300 miles on the clock in Automatic guise for 8600. I think I will just buy that one. Sale is agreed I just have to HPI Gold check the car tomorrow then go and collect it ..

 

[jac-in-a-box]

In particular I need to know that the towed vehicle will be fully comprehensively insured whilst being towed. As I understand it there are only a few Insurance companies who will do fully comp and they are Saga and the NFU? If anyone still interested in this thread could give their experience

I went through the draining process of looking for an insurer who would definitely have my Smartie insured comprehensively while being towed on a trailer...there is a thread in the insurance section.

In a nutshell; most insurers I spoke to lied about the car being insured comprehensively when being towed. When asked to confirm what they were telling me by email they either backpedalled after claiming to have spoken to the underwriter or refused!

I did have insurance with Saga that I wanted to use on the Smarty but they were stupidly costly with 10 years NCB.

I tried NFU as a last resort - only because I heard they were costly. Wish I went to them first. Remarkably helpful, patient and understanding. No issues at all with confirming that the Smarty would be insured fully when on the trailer.

As the motorhome insurance was due I asked them to roll whole lot into one package, m'home, Smarty and trailer...a touch over £500 in all, which beat all my renewal quotes and new business quotes for all the items separately.
Good to know that if the worst should happen, I'm only dealing with one insurer and all their call handling is UK based!

I wouldn't bother going to your local office, I did and they wern't too helpful as I didn't have any other policies with them (buildings, contents etc) but they did give me a number of their motor insurance section 0800 072 0168....worth a go

David

 

[TheDogMan]

All seems very complicated, I had Brian James trailer with a Kangoo on, I put a towbar on the Kangoo and when I arrived and unloaded and used the Kangoo to park the trailer, had the trailer for 2.5 years and sold it for almost what I paid for it, then bought a Ivor Williams BV85 with a ramp back door, put a bike stand and tie downs in it and got a honda scooter, perfik !!

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[Teuchter]

Hi Charlie - I am probably years out of date with my info but at one time it was considered unsafe to to an auto car above 30 mph cos of possible damage to the auto box.
Can anyone else remember this or am I dreaming ?

 

[M1ke]

Hi Charlie - I am probably years out of date with my info but at one time it was considered unsafe to to an auto car above 30 mph cos of possible damage to the auto box.
Can anyone else remember this or am I dreaming ?

Yes, Charlie check that the Auto on your proposed Aygo is going to be OK towed before you buy it?

 

[Teuchter]

I THINK that the New generation of "robotised" auto boxes - where the "manual" type gear shift is actually electronically sensed and electrically operated is OK to tow but the "fully automatic" box complete with torque convertor is still a no no for towing.
I believe this to be true but (as my wife keeps reminding me) I am often known to be wrong!!!!

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[Charlie]

The Aygo is indeed a robotised gearbox. Its like a manual box but with no clutch pedal.

This means that it's basic construction is a manual gearbox but with a clutch that is activated by a computer instead of the driver, this is why there is no clutch pedal needed.

Also a the gearshifts are taken care of by that computer instead of the driver. Of course the driver can still interfere in the shifting of the gears, but will just tell the computer in what gear you want to drive when changing the position of the lever. This gear lever has the same layout as the one from a classic automatic gearbox.

Since the MMT is a manual gearbox made the function automatic, it can be used like a normal manual gearbox, this means that there is no problem if you want to pull an Aygo (on all 4 wheels behind a motor home. It just needs to be put in neutral when pulled (like a normal manual gearbox).

It is for this reason I choose to buy a Toyota. Toyota give a really comprehensive 5 year warranty so if problems do occur I have that warranty to fall back on.

The Aygo will replace my Wife's existing Fiesta Automatic. So it will serve as our Holiday car and her car. Wifes existing car is worth over 5K so this will take the sting out of the purchase price of the Aygo and the 2K to fit the Aframe kit.

My current car is also an Automatic. But its a six speed conventional automatic box with a torque converter . So this car cannot be towed more than a mile or two. Again a Toyota. Again chosen for the brilliant 5 year warranty....

 

[M1ke]

Sounds great Charlie. Are you going to go for the Tow Bars 2 Tow Cars option?

 

[Charlie]

Sounds great Charlie. Are you going to go for the Tow Bars 2 Tow Cars option?

Looks like it at the moment... I have agreed the purchase of the car with the conditions that I can get proper full insurance . This I will do tomorrow and the wee car will be HPId. Then its a case of looking closely at the tow systems on offer and deciding.

I met a chap called Dave over in France and he had a Tow Bars 2 Tow Cars system on his van with a Smarty. He assured me he had towed it all over with no issues.

When I look at the video I just think the fix with two pins looks................... Well just a bit lightweight . Could be just me but if it looked a bit more heavy duty it would inspire confidence where at the moment im just a bit unsure..

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[M1ke]

I'm not too sure there is much option out there for a fully electronic system? As I said in a previous post the only other I know is the Smart Tow system? I can't find anything on the internet which reports the pins you have mentioned failing? I'll keep looking and let you know. I don't want to go down the brake cable type as I think they will be the first to be made illegal. (Nothing to back that up mind you).

Please let me know how you get on with the insurance aspect and I may well follow your lead.

Mike

 

[Charlie]

I'm not too sure there is much option out there for a fully electronic system? As I said in a previous post the only other I know is the Smart Tow system? I can't find anything on the internet which reports the pins you have mentioned failing? I'll keep looking and let you know. I don't want to go down the brake cable type as I think they will be the first to be made illegal. (Nothing to back that up mind you).

Please let me know how you get on with the insurance aspect and I may well follow your lead.

Mike

Mike its just the pedant in me that makes me look at the pin arrangement and think its just a bit unsubstantial. It must surely be fine.

I will let you know how I get on with my insurers

 

[Charlie]

I have spoken at length to my insurers (LV) regarding cover for towing a car whilst on an A frame.

To add a tow bar and cover for third party damage caused by anything I'm towing the additional premium is £o

The car IS covered fully comprehensively while being towed on an A frame provided the towing equipment IE the TOWBAR and the A FRAME meet current legislation. IE they are approved which tow bars must be these days and in the case of the A frame meet current legislation.

As Tow bars to Tow cars give a certificate ensuring and confirming that their equipment does in fact meet current requirements I see no problems,

I was very careful to point out that I am proposing to tow with an A frame and NOT a car on a trailer ,

For anyone interested the cost of insuring the 2015 Aygo fully comp with NCD protected and full European cover is £168..

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[Archie H]

M1ke,

I have a trailer carcaddy that is no longer required as I've sold the motorhome. I bought it a year ago as a combo with a Smart Car and it works great. What you will have to be mindful of is your GVW and Max train weight as well as a few other points in relation to towing with a Motorhome as your combined trailer and car weight may tip you over the newish regulatory towing weights which are quite restrictive and VOSA are becoming ever more keen on justifying their existence.

I have some pictures should you be interested and wish to contact me at archiegser@gmail.com

Regards
Archie

 

[Archie H]

Mike,

Ignore my post I've just read the trail and you no longer want a trailer due to capacity limitations as I outlined above.

Any one else looking for a trailer or trailer car combo (Smart Car)? PM me please before you part with your cash.

 

[Charlie]

One wee issue I am having is establishing what implications fitting an A frame kit to a nearly new car is..

The Toyota we want to buy is a couple of months old and I don't want to loose the 5 year warranty as that's one of the plus points buying that car in the first place..

I've spent an age talking to the local Toyota dealer who is hopeless and even Toyota GB customer relations who were no better . I'm still waiting for Toyota GB to call me back...

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[M1ke]

One wee issue I am having is establishing what implications fitting an A frame kit to a nearly new car is..

The Toyota we want to buy is a couple of months old and I don't want to loose the 5 year warranty as that's one of the plus points buying that car in the first place..

I've spent an age talking to the local Toyota dealer who is hopeless and even Toyota GB customer relations who were no better . I'm still waiting for Toyota GB to call me back...

That's a very good point Charlie, and one I had not thought about. Initial thoughts though that any modifications will invalidate the warranty. I look forward to hearing the result. I can only say that when I spoke to Tow Bars 2 Tow Cars I specifically asked if the whole system can be removed and was assured that for about £300 it can, and only takes about 2 hours, so in the event of a claim, say for the engine or gearbox you could wing it and have the electric gubbins removed without trace.

 

[M1ke]

Mike,

Ignore my post I've just read the trail and you no longer want a trailer due to capacity limitations as I outlined above.

Any one else looking for a trailer or trailer car combo (Smart Car)? PM me please before you part with your cash.

Hi Archie, welcome to the forum. Yes I have discounted a trailer re weight issues, and in any case a Smart Car is not suitable for my needs. I strongly suggest putting an advert in the classifieds with photos as folk are always looking for a good tow car.

Cheers Mike

 

[Charlie]

That's a very good point Charlie, and one I had not thought about. Initial thoughts though that any modifications will invalidate the warranty. I look forward to hearing the result. I can only say that when I spoke to Tow Bars 2 Tow Cars I specifically asked if the whole system can be removed and was assured that for about £300 it can, and only takes about 2 hours, so in the event of a claim, say for the engine or gearbox you could wing it and have the electric gubbins removed without trace.

Mike if it invalidates the warranty I will reconsider. Toyota have failed to call me despite assurances they would.

Its not really practical to spend 300 quid removing the kit in the event of a warranty claim. If something goes that incapacitates the car then its either transport the thing a large distance anyway. I dont want to be hiding things either to be honest.

If the Aframe fitment gubbers something on the car or a component fails because of the A frame then of course I would not be able to claim for that element. That I can live with. But loosing or invalidating the entire warranty is another kettle of fish

IE I have considered that the steering has to be unlocked so the wheels are free to turn. But what effect could this have on the steering or PAS system ?

Trouble with me is I think too much.

I have to be honest I still have not completely ruled out one of those 3 wheeled scooters. Google Piaggio MP3 or Peugeot Metropolis..

I did say to the seller of the wee Aygo everything would have to be right before I buy the car. I dont want to nor can afford to make mistakes.

The very last thing I want to do it tow and have to store a trailer. We have 4 cars and the MH on the drive as it is so space is running out . We live down a tight country lane and if I store a trailer on it visitors wont have anywhere to park.

But as above I either crack this transport problem or the AS Kemerton will be sold..

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[M1ke]

I think you may be worrying unnecessarily to be honest. Toyota's are extremely reliable, that's why they have 5 years warranty. I'd be tempted to risk it or perhaps put the question to the forum and ask the advice of others who are in the same situation?

 

[chopper602]

If you require a warranty claim, anything you have altered or changed will not be covered. If you have altered the braking system and had a engine or gearbox failure you would still be covered under the warranty.

 

[Charlie]

If you require a warranty claim, anything you have altered or changed will not be covered. If you have altered the braking system and had a engine or gearbox failure you would still be covered under the warranty.

Yes that's pretty much what I would expect. I would have liked it confirmed by the manufacturer but disappointingly they failed to call me back.

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[gus-lopez]

Mike. Take a look at the link below. Read through it carefully mate and let me know what you think ?
If what the seller supplier says is true I just cant see a problem.

I know many are anti but frankly I don't care a jot. I have a transportation problem to sort and I will sort is the best way I can simple as,

If any knowledgeable people understand the technicalities then please tell us what you think.

But please lets not get into another bun fight over what we like and don't like.

Thanks.

Link'
Link Removed

Take it with a pinch of salt.
It may "meet all European towing braking rules " BUT in Spain that isn't the offence. The offence is "towing a vehicle " it is illegal. Not allowed. You cannot even recover a broken down vehicle with a solid bar or tow rope. Even though you can buy both items.Just illegal to use them.
A vehicle , whether being moved due to breakdown or other can only be transported on a trailer or purpose built recovery truck.

 

[Charlie]

Take it with a pinch of salt.
It may "meet all European towing braking rules " BUT in Spain that isn't the offence. The offence is "towing a vehicle " it is illegal. Not allowed. You cannot even recover a broken down vehicle with a solid bar or tow rope. Even though you can buy both items.Just illegal to use them.
A vehicle , whether being moved due to breakdown or other can only be transported on a trailer or purpose built recovery truck.

With current legislation as it is Im not even considering using an Aframe there. UK and France the only places we would use one ..

 

[talaris]

Hi. We do exactly this. Tow a 500c on a Woodford trailer. Twin axle as I would not want to tow a single axle trailer with that amount of weight and value on it. In any event a twin is more stable and easier to reverse as it does react so quickly.

Woodford make the Smart Trailers and the latter basically move them on for an uplift.

My trailer is a 14 foot bed length which is a little too big but it gives flexibility if we change the car or want to move it on as it will be easier to sell being a more usable size.

Never had a problem stowing on a site. I had a tow at fitted to the fiat so we drop the trailer having taken the car off,put the van on the pitch, then use the fiat to put the trailer on the pitch.

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[M1ke]

Hi. We do exactly this. Tow a 500c on a Woodford trailer. Twin axle as I would not want to tow a single axle trailer with that amount of weight and value on it. In any event a twin is more stable and easier to reverse as it does react so quickly.

Woodford make the Smart Trailers and the latter basically move them on for an uplift.

My trailer is a 14 foot bed length which is a little too big but it gives flexibility if we change the car or want to move it on as it will be easier to sell being a more usable size.

Never had a problem stowing on a site. I had a tow at fitted to the fiat so we drop the trailer having taken the car off,put the van on the pitch, then use the fiat to put the trailer on the pitch.

Unfortunately the Woodford trailer (or any trailer) and Fiat 500 exceeds the maximum permissible towing weight of my vehicle. So trailers are a no go for me I'm afraid.

 

[Charlie]

Ignoring the problems associated with Aframes trailers just seem too much grief .

 

[M1ke]

Ignoring the problems associated with Aframes trailers just seem too much grief .

Have you made a decision yet Charlie? Did you go for the Toytota Aygo?

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[Charlie]

Have you made a decision yet Charlie? Did you go for the Toytota Aygo?

The Wee car it turned out has a problem.
Toyota called just today to tell me that the warranty will not be affected unless a component is affected by the fitment of any add ons . So much as we expected .
Still just a bit unsure what to do to be honest.
We are planning our next trip to Spain/ Portugal or maybe Morroco for January. As we cannot take a car on a frame over to those countries it kinda takes the pressure off so sitting on the fence.
I would have bought that Wee car but as I say there was a problem with it. Plenty of cars about though ..

 

[oaktree11]

Correct, the total train weight is 6000kg so, assuming that you have not exceeded the 4300kg you have a max of 1700kg to play with to tow

John

 

[M1ke]

Correct, the total train weight is 6000kg so, assuming that you have not exceeded the 4300kg you have a max of 1700kg to play with to tow

John

Hi John
I think 4300kgs is the unladen weight isn't it? That's before 3 adults, fuel, water, luggage etc? 5000kgs being the max fully laden weight? Is that right?

So assuming that I load up to the max limit, I would only have 1000kgs? Or have I got it all wrong

Mike

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