Buying an A Frame - read this! (1 Viewer)

[Braunston]

Hi, Ken

They must have home made trailers in Spain surley, how do they get on, as Vwalan says its got to be worth a try, if you took the car to the tester and said when you had fitted the "A" frame "this is my new trailer" please test it as a trailer (apart from being rude) what would he say/test it for, as it would be very intereting to know on exactly what grounds it may fail ? e.g. lights/brakes etc. and whether it would be possible to get a registration number for it when it was in the trailer form ?

You can get a ITV witch is like your MOT on a trailer here in Spain but you must have a NIF number and address but you wont get any test done on an Aframe here. All trailer,s here that carry a car have to have this test, hope this helps

 

[kenspain]

Hi, Ken

They must have home made trailers in Spain surley, how do they get on, as Vwalan says its got to be worth a try, if you took the car to the tester and said when you had fitted the "A" frame "this is my new trailer" please test it as a trailer (apart from being rude) what would he say/test it for, as it would be very intereting to know on exactly what grounds it may fail ? e.g. lights/brakes etc. and whether it would be possible to get a registration number for it when it was in the trailer form ?

I tow with a trailer when i need to that has a ITV We have been told many times here that you can not use an Aframe on a Spanish Reg motor by the Police here that was the last we were told when we went to the main traffic Police in Alicante with many photos of the frame
if they want to be funny here they can and will fine you and if you want to fight to get you money back thought the courts it can take up to 2 years. there are so many rules here even my spanish friends find it hard some times to understand, But if any one wants to send a frame over and pay the cost we will try and get it tested but dont hold your breath

 

[vwalan]

its only a thought . mine isnt braked or i could call and see you this winter and give it a try. i only say it as dvla tell us if we fit an aframe its a trailer.
perhaps momo will bring good news in the future . not worth using mine as nobrakes gives them an instant noget out.
was better before all the rv,s had aframes towed miles with mine abroad. now theres so many they are being awkward. i do think the spanish will have to change their views soon.
thanks though ken we could be back to hassle you.ha ha
cheers alan.

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[kenspain]

its only a thought . mine isnt braked or i could call and see you this winter and give it a try. i only say it as dvla tell us if we fit an aframe its a trailer.
perhaps momo will bring good news in the future . not worth using mine as nobrakes gives them an instant noget out.
was better before all the rv,s had aframes towed miles with mine abroad. now theres so many they are being awkward. i do think the spanish will have to change their views soon.
thanks though ken we could be back to hassle you.ha ha
cheers alan.

Let me know next time you stay in Gandia I will come down and we can go for a drink.:thumb:

 

[dave newell]

My only comment is that it is NOT DVLA who say a car and A frame is a trailer its the Department for Transport (DfT) and the do add the proviso that the "trailer" meets the required regulations for a UK trailer.

Unbraked A frames definitely do NOT comply for the simple reason that "if a trailer has brakes fitted then they must be operational".

I look forward to seeing this "genuinely legal across Europe" A frame. It bothers me not in the slightest whether A frames are legal or not as I have less interest in using one than sticking hot pins in my eyes.

The constant discussion as to legality however is fascinating, much better than all the soaps put together.

D.

 

[vwalan]

hi dave .i used mine for recovery ,i also have a harvey frost tow boy again great for recovery. but now even the aa etc are racing around with dollies with no brakes on back wheels .followed one last weekend if i,d been a copper he was totaly illegal towing upto 50mph. when i did recovery we couldnt long tow for them with wheels on ground .wonder if its changed now as they seem to pull them for miles. i think i could set up a museum of antique towing - recovery gear.ha ha,

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[pappajohn]

had my camry towed by arrivals only 11 days ago alan.

simply lowered the dolly out of the van using the winch wire, winched the car front wheels on.....its an auto so no flat towing....strapped it on and checked the dollies hydraulic steering....no brakes or rear lights, just his orange 'gerrout the way' light bar.

RE: towing the distance.......

i recovered a 24ft 3500kg motorhome on a spec frame (4.1ltr Isuzu) from scarborough to malvern for the RAC (contracted)......no probs except overtaking on the motorway.....limited rear view 'cos the M/H was wider then the trucks mirrors.

 

[dave newell]

Just 'cos you got away with it don't make it legal!

Errr, can't think of anything else worth saying.

D.

 

[PeteH]

A frame? Or Not

Hi

I am an advocate of the "A" frame, I believe that if you have a large Motor-home then it is desirable to have a second vehicle whilst on site and the "frame" is the most practical way of achieving this. I started off with a trailer and the issue of "where to park it" was ever a problem, and is becoming more so. HOWEVER. We have been pulled several times by the Spanish "plod", fortunately each time (so far) we have been allowed to continue. but his cannot last forever, and anyway SWMBO is getting paranoid, which takes all the fun out of driving in Spain. So I am now seriously looking at a "Smart" and Trailer as the "compromise". The fact that WE (Brits) believe its OK under EU laws might be true.
Unfortunately, no one seems to have told the Spanish "plod" (Guardia Civil) (who after all where, and I think still believe they are, Franco`s "Gestapo") and by definition (still) a law unto themselves!!. We have never been fined BUT the "hassle" takes all the fun out of driving in Spain. AND those who have been fined have had a long fight to get the fines overturned and money back etc;.

It is not right nor fair I agree, But SWMBO has had enough I`m afraid.

Another thing I am looking at Is moving my "Winter" R-V`ng to the USA where they do it properly. With the prices in Spain and Portugal increasing day on day, and the increasing cost of getting the R-V to the Med;, it getting to be economically viable to fly over the Altlantic and spent the winters r-v`ing in the southern states. I do have the advantage of Family who live there, and my son is interested in using the R-V when we are not, so it might work out OK.

If it does work out, the further loss will be to the Spanish economy!!!.

Pete

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[kenspain]

Hi

I am an advocate of the "A" frame, I believe that if you have a large Motor-home then it is desirable to have a second vehicle whilst on site and the "frame" is the most practical way of achieving this. I started off with a trailer and the issue of "where to park it" was ever a problem, and is becoming more so. HOWEVER. We have been pulled several times by the Spanish "plod", fortunately each time (so far) we have been allowed to continue. but his cannot last forever, and anyway SWMBO is getting paranoid, which takes all the fun out of driving in Spain. So I am now seriously looking at a "Smart" and Trailer as the "compromise". The fact that WE (Brits) believe its OK under EU laws might be true.
Unfortunately, no one seems to have told the Spanish "plod" (Guardia Civil) (who after all where, and I think still believe they are, Franco`s "Gestapo") and by definition (still) a law unto themselves!!. We have never been fined BUT the "hassle" takes all the fun out of driving in Spain. AND those who have been fined have had a long fight to get the fines overturned and money back etc;.

It is not right nor fair I agree, But SWMBO has had enough I`m afraid.

Another thing I am looking at Is moving my "Winter" R-V`ng to the USA where they do it properly. With the prices in Spain and Portugal increasing day on day, and the increasing cost of getting the R-V to the Med;, it getting to be economically viable to fly over the Altlantic and spent the winters r-v`ing in the southern states. I do have the advantage of Family who live there, and my son is interested in using the R-V when we are not, so it might work out OK.

If it does work out, the further loss will be to the Spanish economy!!!.

Pete

I don,t think the Spanish care or think about any loss of there economy I was told last night that the police are getting fed up with the complaints from site owners about MH parking up were ever they want and not using the sites so just take care were you park now.

 

[wooly]

Elvis Lives

Hi, To get back to the origional post, I think its ......

1st April again and you are right Elvis lives on in a Motorhome, It's all a big wind up to get you arguing about Aframes again, ...... And I came on here to get away from the World Cup!!

Michael
Ps I had a Chris Cox Aframe fitted on Tuesday - good bit of kit, excellent service.

 

[Elvis]

nah

Hi, To get back to the origional post, I think its ......

1st April again and you are right Elvis lives on in a Motorhome, It's all a big wind up to get you arguing about Aframes again, ...... And I came on here to get away from the World Cup!!

Michael
Ps I had a Chris Cox Aframe fitted on Tuesday - good bit of kit, excellent service.

No, trust me, it's on it's way.... shame you already bought yours

Does your one reverse? Will 'mine' be the only one on the market that can reverse, whilst connected? :Cool: I have never researched this issue before so I have no idea but would be good to know.

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[wooly]

Hi, Yes I can back with no problem, can't understand what the problem is - well perhaps I can having a bit of advantage over many other folks, having been backing trailers of every size and configeration since I was out of nappies. The problem's not with the A Frame it's the user - honest. Tried it as soon as I got home, backed it straight, backed it around a corner, turned the whole rig around, no problem.
Michael

 

[pappajohn]

Hi, Yes I can back with no problem, can't understand what the problem is - well perhaps I can having a bit of advantage over many other folks, having been backing trailers of every size and configeration since I was out of nappies. The problem's not with the A Frame it's the user - honest. Tried it as soon as I got home, backed it straight, backed it around a corner, turned the whole rig around, no problem.
Michael

then your brakes dont work properly....straight line is fine but reverse cornering puts too much drag on the overrun system and applies the brakes....if they're set up properly.

you cant reverse an a frame round a corner due to the steering geometry on the toad...try to reverse to the left and the wheels will turn to the right....cant alter the laws of physics.

 

[Snowbird]

then your brakes dont work properly....straight line is fine but reverse cornering puts too much drag on the overrun system and applies the brakes....if they're set up properly.

you cant reverse an a frame round a corner due to the steering geometry on the toad...try to reverse to the left and the wheels will turn to the right....cant alter the laws of physics.

Correct.....it won`t work.....I too have driven just about every trailer imaginable,including multiples and my toad will not go round corners when reversing.

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[mopauline]

Dare I ask what is a 'toad'

 

[schojac]

I'll pay you for lessons cos I've never been able to master reversing. Straight line , no camber and slow - chance on!

We've even tried getting some one to steer the toad; not tried using the toad to reverse the whole rig though; wonder if the clutch would hack it?

 

[pappajohn]

Dare I ask what is a 'toad'

a toad is a small (usually) car 'towed' behind a motorhome.....hence 'toad' :thumb:

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[Snowbird]

Dare I ask what is a 'toad'

Well....if you try to reverse it...it usualy hops around like a big frog...hence toad.

 

[schojac]

Dare I ask what is a 'toad'

If you hop into the garage and search for autotrail mohican I have a couple of pictures in there.

 

[wooly]

HI Pappajohn, I think after 15 years as a VOSA approved HGV fitter and driver I am well able to correctly set up the brakes, I dont see the need to mock or deny other people's skills.
Michael

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[Chris]

I am confused now about A frames, trailers etc.

I was thinking of getting a litle Citroen C1 to tow behind the MH.

What's the best (EU legal) way?

Can you use one of those bars that the AA use which lift the front wheels of the toad off the road? What are they called?

Any help would be appreciated. I am a lousy reverser and have an aversion to being pulled by plod. Nor do I want to wait until next year for this new A frame being discussed.

Why is nothing ever easy when it comes to motorhoming?

 

[vwalan]

you mean a dolly .not really they are for recovery only.there are speed restrictions. it is possible if you have brakes on dolly and get your rear brakes to work on car but its too complicated. to be honest a braked aframe works well but if you want to go abroad and dont feel you can handle confrontation by the fuzz use a trailer. i support the use of aframes but there could be problems to face in spain.
there as been some excellantyank tow dollies imported over the years with turntables and really posh looking but they seem to have disapeared now.
i say get a fiver its much more conveniant to me .
cheers alan.

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

We tow using an "A" frame on a Fiat Panda and have had nor problems, but in answer to your first question What's the best (EU legal) way? I have to answer buy a trailer of a suitable size to take your car any good trailer manufacture/retailer will be able to advise you on what best.

Your second question lift the front wheels of the toad off the road? What are they called?
They are called Dollies and no they are not legal they can only be used for recovery.

If you want any more info on "A" frames etc just use the search facility you should be overwhelmed with information.

I am confused now about A frames, trailers etc.

I was thinking of getting a litle Citroen C1 to tow behind the MH.

What's the best (EU legal) way?

Can you use one of those bars that the AA use which lift the front wheels of the toad off the road? What are they called?

Any help would be appreciated. I am a lousy reverser and have an aversion to being pulled by plod. Nor do I want to wait until next year for this new A frame being discussed.

Why is nothing ever easy when it comes to motorhoming?

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[Chris]

Thanks for the advice - that's great.

Trailer it is then.

Cheers.

 

[Larrynwin]

Our toad is a Peugeot 107 we have a Brian James trailer and an a frame. A trailer is a big lump to deal with on site so we use the a frame as much as possible

 

[hilldweller]

Thanks for the advice - that's great.

Trailer it is then.

Cheers.

Or is it ?

I know many people use a toad so nowt like doing a block insult.

It's ridiculous to tow a vehicle behind a MH. Two lots of tax and insurance. Two lots of expensive mechanical wear. If you need transport when you get there then buy a caravan or a fifthwheeler.

Caravan mechanically simple and no separate tax/insurance. More room than MH. Low drag. Cheap. Legal.

Simples.

MHs excel for nomads, can't be beaten, but olde fartes off for the winter, caravan.

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[Chris]

I should imagine its a case of personal preference.

We have 2 big cars at the moment so would get rid of one to use as a toad and as a second car.

No additional tax or insurance. As a matter of fact the tax on a small toad is £0 and the insurance will be less than my existing car.

So trailer it is - quids in all round.

 

[vwalan]

you could sorn the cars while you go away .may be not if on a weekend trip.ha ha.
having aframed for years .i ,m glad i have a fiver for long travel .carry a m,bike in the back for shopping and looking about.best of all worlds. works for me. no problems with police anywhere.

 

[Chris]

Work full time VWalan so trips away are a bit limited.

Only about 20 years until I retire (God willing).

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