Buying a French registered motorhome? (1 Viewer)

[klaatu]

Is it possible to buy and insure a French registered motorhome, in France, and continue to use it in France, without having a French address?

Supplementary question: Is a French motorhome dealer likely to take a UK-registered motorhome in part exchange?

 

[Flamenca]

I would say that it is most unlikely. I believe that to register a vehicle in a country in the EU you need an address in that country.
You would also not be allowed to drive the vehicle in UK.
Do you need an MOT in the Orkneys nowadays? Can you not register the vehicle in a remote island where vehicles are exempt from MOT? Just wondering whether that is the issue you are trying to avoid - driving back to get an MOT.

 

[maxi77]

A friend of ours has a French registered he does not live in France. His is new so no MOT requirements yet. just pays his tax and has French insurance

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[klaatu]

Do you need an MOT in the Orkneys nowadays? Can you not register the vehicle in a remote island where vehicles are exempt from MOT? Just wondering whether that is the issue you are trying to avoid - driving back to get an MOT.

We don't need an MOT on the island where we live, so long as the vehicle doesn't leave the island. I'd actually forgotten about MOT (or equivalent) requirements, I guess I'd assumed that if we bought from a dealer it would come with the equivalent of 12 months MOT.

The issue I would want to avoid is coming back to the UK at all in the near future. We are currently on an open-ended tour of France and not intending to return to the UK until next year. We're considering changing motorhomes while over here, if it's possible to do.

 

[Munchie]

There is no road tax in France. You will need a French address and proof i. e. Utility bill

 

[klaatu]

There is no road tax in France.

Yes, I know that, that's why I didn't mention it

You will need a French address and proof i. e. Utility bill

I guess we'll just have to buy one of the French houses we've been looking at as well - cheaper than the motorhome!

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[Alistair33]

If you buy new in the UK no MOT for three years, sooon to be four I think

 

[Flamenca]

It was possible to obtain a 'voluntary ITV' (MOT)' in Spain but do not know the current situation.

 

[gus-lopez]

duplicated

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[gus-lopez]

It was possible to obtain a 'voluntary ITV' (MOT)' in Spain but do not know the current situation.

Not worth the money spent,means nothing except that at that moment it was deemed roadworthy by a country with different standards.

 

[LuckyLuke]

Here is a link to the rules http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/registration/index_en.htm

Simple summary - you have to register in the country of your residence; if you are moving to a new EU country you have to register the vehicle within 6 months of moving to the new country.

 

[Hollyberry]

I found in France you had to prove your address for just about everything. You have to carry all your vehicle documents with you so I carried proof of address in the wallet as well.

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[LuckyLuke]

I found in France you had to prove your address for just about everything. You have to carry all your vehicle documents with you so I carried proof of address in the wallet as well.

Indeed - you have to carry your driving licence and car documents (equivalent of V5 and insurance documents) with you whenever you are driving. Its actually very sensible - no documents with you = a fine. There are regular check on documents too - I get stopped 1-2 times a year and asked to show documents, they will stop you more often if you drive a rig that needs extra licence provisions - so anything over 3.5t gets more attention.
Forgot to add - the same applies to foreign drivers in france - the number of UK people who don't realise that they need to carry their documents with them is huge.

 

[The Nomad]

It was possible to obtain a 'voluntary ITV' (MOT)' in Spain but do not know the current situation.

It is still possible but it means and always did mean UTTERLY NOTHING on anything other than a Spanish matriculated vehicle. It was nothing but an old wives tale to say that it had any legal value on any foreign vehicle (unless as part of the importation process onto Spanish plates).

ITV stations in Spain are private businesses, they'll take your money and put anything you like through their test process.
It isn't for them to decide whether you need to do that or whether it's a legal requirement for your vehicle.

But the only thing that is valid on a British registered vehicle, and what it must have in valid current form to be kept on or driven on any public road in any country, is a UK MOT.

Worth mentioning perhaps that now that the Spanish Guardia Civil and Police have instant online access from their car laptops to the VED and MOT records for all British registered vehicles, the price of all the old untaxed and unMOT'd illegal bangers that were being used over here on the Costas is dropping through the floor, as the criminals try to get rid of them before having them seized and being arrested in any Police stop-check.

 

[Flamenca]

the price of all the old untaxed and unMOT'd illegal bangers that were being used over here on the Costas is dropping through the floor

I assume a lot are going to the scrap yards.

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[The Nomad]

To answer the OP.....

We've toyed with doing this a couple times over the past decade, as (used) motorhomes in France are far more plentiful and a lot cheaper than in Spain where we live.
We've ended up not doing it yet, but we learned a bit about "getting round" the registration issues.

To register of in your name you need a "home" address in France....in practice any accommodation address will usually do, a mate's etc.
Insurance market has now been opened up all over the EU, loads of companies are now able and willing to insure a (For example) French or Brit plated vehicle to a person living in Spain for all or part of each year and travelling around the rest of Europe in the meantime.
If travelling around Europe it's easy to pop into any French Controls technique to get it's mechanical test done.
I did ask about any requirement for a personal French tax identification number which the authorities might require ahainst which to register ownership of the asset (as is required in Spain) but two separate dealers have told me that isn't required.
Technically a vehicle registered in one EU member state can only guest in another specific EU state for up to 6 months per year. But no-one ever ever ever bothers about that in mainland Europe in practice. Similarly, technically people are supposed to register their vehicle in the member state in which they are "Resident" but again in practice no one ever bothers about it.

Certainly if/when we are next in the market I'd certainly actively consider buying a French reg MH and keeping it on French plates as we are normally trundling around mainland Europe for in total around 6 months per year nowadays.

 

[tacr2man]

A friend of ours has a French registered he does not live in France. His is new so no MOT requirements yet. just pays his tax and has French insurance

Totally illegal to use in UK if he has a permanent status here , cant advise on french side of things

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports

 

[LuckyLuke]

Totally illegal to use in UK if he has a permanent status here , cant advise on french side of things

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports

Same is true in France - its an EU wide law. You have to register the vehicle in your country of residence or you are breaking the law, and in the event of a major accident you would find your insurance company would just walk away - the small print in the insurance policy would ensure your illegal registration of the vehicle rendered the policy invalid.

There are some exceptions to this - such as cross border workers:

You are a cross-border worker (employed or self-employed) if you work on one side of a national border but live on the other, and return home at least once a week.​

If you use your own car to commute regularly from the country where you live to the country where you work, you have to register it and pay the relevant taxes in the country where you live - but not in the country where you work.​

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[The Nomad]

Same is true in France - its an EU wide law. You have to register the vehicle in your country of residence or you are breaking the law, and in the event of a major accident you would find your insurance company would just walk away - the small print in the insurance policy would ensure your illegal registration of the vehicle rendered the policy invalid.

There are some exceptions to this - such as cross border workers:

You are a cross-border worker (employed or self-employed) if you work on one side of a national border but live on the other, and return home at least once a week.​

If you use your own car to commute regularly from the country where you live to the country where you work, you have to register it and pay the relevant taxes in the country where you live - but not in the country where you work.​

The insurer cannot repudiate the third party element of any contract of insurance once they have accepted risk.
Regardless of the legality or otherwise of the vehicle st the time of any accident all third party elements of cover remain. EU law.

 

[maxi77]

Totally illegal to use in UK if he has a permanent status here , cant advise on french side of things

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports

As they spend much of the year travelling I do not think they qualify for residence anywhere, and they do not have vacant property in the UK and I do not think the present van has ever been in the UK, they were thinking of changing the registration to Portugal where they do have property, but non resident status

 

[gus-lopez]

I assume a lot are going to the scrap yards.

Technically that is illegal in Spain as well. When I was first here & had a vehicle to scrap no one would take it. When I investigated further the spanish law states that a vehicle can only stay in the country whilst being used by a tourist or being replated by a spanish resident .it cannot be scrapped but must be taken whence it came using a low loader if necessary. Only UK vehicles that you'd see in a scrapyard here were accident right offs- Lot better now with the scrapyards though as most now understand that basically there isn't a paperwork job required scrapping a UK vehicle like there is with most other EU plated stuff-

As they spend much of the year travelling I do not think they qualify for residence anywhere, and they do not have vacant property in the UK and I do not think the present van has ever been in the UK, they were thinking of changing the registration to Portugal where they do have property, but non resident status

That might be the case but I can assure you if they get involved with officialdom, especially UK, they will find that you cannot be " non-resident" anywhere . It goes against the 'control' of the peasants policy.

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[Flamenca]

Technically that is illegal in Spain as well. When I was first here & had a vehicle to scrap no one would take it. When I investigated further the spanish law states that a vehicle can only stay in the country whilst being used by a tourist or being replated by a spanish resident .it cannot be scrapped but must be taken whence it came using a low loader if necessary. Only UK vehicles that you'd see in a scrapyard here were accident right offs- Lot better now with the scrapyards though as most now understand that basically there isn't a paperwork job required scrapping a UK vehicle like there is with most other EU plated stuff-

I scrapped a UK registered Landrover Discovery in Spain a couple of years ago. It was not a write off but had an engine management fault and was not worth repatriating. A 'certified' yard took the vehicle away together with the appropriate part of the V5C and provided me with a proper certificate and they also notified DVLA who recorded the vehicle scrapped. That particular scrap yard seemed well versed in rules related to scrapping UK registered vehicles.

 

[gus-lopez]

I scrapped a UK registered Landrover Discovery in Spain a couple of years ago. It was not a write off but had an engine management fault and was not worth repatriating. A 'certified' yard took the vehicle away together with the appropriate part of the V5C and provided me with a proper certificate and they also notified DVLA who recorded the vehicle scrapped. That particular scrap yard seemed well versed in rules related to scrapping UK registered vehicles.

Oh yes they know what they are doing but they also know now that they can take a UK one & do nothing as well.
My one 15 years ago I had already scrapped with the dvla. Just couldn't get anyone to take it. Done me a favour though as I sold it off in bits eventually.

 

[LuckyLuke]

That might be the case but I can assure you if they get involved with officialdom, especially UK, they will find that you cannot be " non-resident" anywhere . It goes against the 'control' of the peasants policy.

Absolutely spot on - residency is complex but essentially you will be resident in the country you have the most ties to - for example where you have lived in previous years, where your bank accounts are, where your family ties are and lots more. Unless they can demonstrate that they have moved residency then the chances are that they will be uk residents when it comes to the law.

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[stcyr]

A friend of ours has a French registered he does not live in France. His is new so no MOT requirements yet. just pays his tax and has French insurance

So what address is on his carte grise?

 

[Hollyberry]

To answer the OP.....

We've toyed with doing this a couple times over the past decade, as (used) motorhomes in France are far more plentiful and a lot cheaper than in Spain where we live.
We've ended up not doing it yet, but we learned a bit about "getting round" the registration issues.

To register of in your name you need a "home" address in France....in practice any accommodation address will usually do, a mate's etc.
Insurance market has now been opened up all over the EU, loads of companies are now able and willing to insure a (For example) French or Brit plated vehicle to a person living in Spain for all or part of each year and travelling around the rest of Europe in the meantime.
If travelling around Europe it's easy to pop into any French Controls technique to get it's mechanical test done.
I did ask about any requirement for a personal French tax identification number which the authorities might require ahainst which to register ownership of the asset (as is required in Spain) but two separate dealers have told me that isn't required.
Technically a vehicle registered in one EU member state can only guest in another specific EU state for up to 6 months per year. But no-one ever ever ever bothers about that in mainland Europe in practice. Similarly, technically people are supposed to register their vehicle in the member state in which they are "Resident" but again in practice no one ever bothers about it.

Certainly if/when we are next in the market I'd certainly actively consider buying a French reg MH and keeping it on French plates as we are normally trundling around mainland Europe for in total around 6 months per year nowadays.

I did have French insurance on a UK registered motorhome but although I paid the year upfront, they would only renew it each month. I was sent a new green ticket to put on the windscreen every month. Could be a problem if it's registered at a friend's address. The insurance co said they had to do this while it was going through reregistering in France. ( might not be same for all insurance companies though )